One way NOT to handle pace of play

[nike_golf]

Ok, let us assume OP's flight would have speeded up a bit and reached the flight ahead of them. Would the group behind them in that case not have shot their balls into OP's flight? Would that group have been happy seeing that there was no open FW between the two groups in front of them? Maybe but I doubt it.

If the OP's group HAD caught and was thus waiting a bit on the group ahead of them, I would like to think that the group behind the OP's group would realize that the group ahead of the OP's group was holding things up, and hence, the OP's group could do nothing about it. So, yes, I would expect the group that was behind the OP's group to realize that and not push the OP's group like they were. I like to think MOST golfers have enough sense to know what's going on in front of them. Hitting into someone is NEVER excusable, however. I have certainly NEVER condoned that or excused that.

I'm not sure if you've read the whole thread, but the other things you talk about is what I've already brought up and said. So, in essence, I agree w/ you. And if a group were to hit into my group, either by mistake or inpatience, it wouldn't be taken lightly by me or guys in my group. I KNOW any slow play of any kind WOULDN'T be because of my group. So, for us to be hit into at any time would be a serious error and an overall boneheaded thing to do on the part of whoever did it. Luckily, I can't say that I've ever had a person (group) deliberately and erroneously hit into me (us) that caused me (us) to do something about it.

[Cussin hacker]

Beat the hell out of that dead horse fellas.....you'll be able to ride him in no time! ;)

[sean_miller]

How large a sampling does one need to form an opinion? People give reviews of individual restaurants based on a single meal on a single evening.

If I were the OP, I wouldn't write off the whole course, based on this one bad experience. I empathize with him, but I suspect the people doing the bombing were well aquainted with the starter/ranger/marshall and the pro shop staff. It's unlikely someone would be so brazen without having allies to back up their stupid behaviour. They saw you guys as easy targets. Go back there, but try to get a tee time at a different time of day - people are creatures of habit - miss those clowns altogether and you might like the course.

Could the two ladies have played faster? Could the OP and his friend have played faster? Probably.

Is the ranger in this anecdote typical of many rangers I've met over the years - a guy who's either too dense or too cowardly to talk directly to the slow players in the group (obvously not the OP) and force them to pick up their balls and move to the next hole, instead speaking to the quicker player who's standing up ahead in the fairway, waiting to hit his or her ball? You betcha.

Insert Ranger/marshall rant:

Why are the longest and straightest hitters in the group always targeted by the ranger? Don't talk to me pal, the starter paired me and my friend with two turtles - go talk to one of them. Am I team captain or something? Do. Your. Job.

"Go ahead and hit" seems to be their catchphrase. Dude, they're not even 200 yards off the tee. Are you asking me to bomb it over their heads or lay up? I know that when you're out with your cronies, the best drive of the year is shy of 185 yards, but some people can really tag it - chill.

[Fourputt]

Usually when a course posts a time for completing 18 holes, or as in the case of my home course, also posts a split time for each 9 (we have posted 4:20 for 18 or 2:10 per 9), that is the maximum time that a group of 4 golfers walking is expected to play in. Faster is certainly acceptable, and if a twosome or threesome is sent out without any larger groups in front of them, it would be hoped that they would play rather faster than that, although no adjustment to that maximum is posted. I have played as a twosome riding in a single cart in just over 2:30, and in a fivesome all riding in 3:55 (and we were held up on the last 3 holes because we caught up with and had to wait on a threesome

). BUT...... On a busy course during prime time, by mid day even on the best days our course will be running at the higher end of that limit. When the course is fully loaded with that many groups, there are bound to be issues that prolong this group or that one - ball searches, blowup holes, etc. When those issues arise within a group which isn't particularly fast in the first place, that is where the real problems begin. If you lose a little ground because of a lost ball, etc., then you should be immediately hustling to regain your position. Don't wait for the ranger to get on your butt... by then you've lost too much ground. Our course assistants are directed to focus at least 75% of their time on the front 9. If you keep the front 9 moving, the back usually takes care of itself because the players are already aware that they are under scrutiny. As a starter, one of my jobs is to record and track the turn times for every group. When I see a foursome come off the 9th green near that upper limit of 2:10, but I can't see the next foursome at least hitting their tee shots, I immediately call the ranger (our CA's, tee hosts, and starter all have Nextel radios) to find out what's up. If he isn't on top of it, then he heads right over there to prod those tardy golfers. If I can keep the front 9 moving, or at least close it up at the turn, then 3/4 of the problem is solved. I will even chastise them over the PA system... public embarrassment sometimes does wonders. If one or more groups make the turn in more than 2:15, then we have the potential for never being able to get back on time. Once the problem has reached the middle of the round, the accordion effect jams up the whole front 9 and it's very hard to unsnarl. As long as groups are turning within the acceptable 9 hole limit, I don't mind a small gap here and there. That makes an overall more enjoyable experience for everyone when they aren't jammed up on every tee.

[Shindig]

I heard back a few days ago, but have been MIA from here due to work.

The chief operations officer of the course responded to my email, telling me that their course considers 4:15 to be an acceptable pace of play and that the behavior exhibited by the group behind me and the response I got in the pro shop were both unacceptable. He invited my friend and I to return as his guests at some point in the near future. I will be happy to give the course another shot - other than the negative experiences mentioned, I really did like the course itself.

[zeg]

Awesome. Hope your next experience is more pleasant!

[Dartguy]

Wow, this original post really pissed me off. I can't stand being hit into. Someone could really get hurt. The second ball would have been kicked into the woods or water, within plain sight of the jerk that hit it. There is no excuse for repeatedly hitting into someone, and no excuse for the comment you got from the idiot working the pro shop.

I used to have a friend that would treat me and another to play at his home course. It is a very nice course, and he would pay our fees, but the guy would always hit into people, and I couldn't stand it. Finally I just had to stop going.

[ks8829]

When someone hits into me the second or third time, I simple fall down flat on my back rub a little ketchup on my face and wait for the ground to catch up.

I usually let the people behind me know what they did with a stare down and if necessary call the pro shop to inform them of the group. The pro shop should also be receptive to your complaint so that when a starter can see short hitter ready to tee up they will next time let them hit up first instead of waiting for the group ahead to finish the hole.

I might considering calling the pro shop again to report the whole incident and talk with the head pro or management.

[muzz]

You're failing to fully understand.

The fact is the group behind them was not only a hell of alot faster, but ignorant to the hazards of hitting into someone.

From what is being said here, there is no doubt in my mind that even if they had caught the group in front of them, that the jerkoffs behind them STILL would have EASILY caught them and started their BS again, maybe just 2 holes later. Facts are facts, the starter set it up that way and they played it that way, to the EXACT same amount of time. What is so hard for YOU to understand?

[nike_golf]

The fact is the group behind them was not only a hell of alot faster, but ignorant to the hazards of hitting into someone.

I never said it was ever okay to hit into someone. There's never an excuse for that.

However, if the OP's group did catch the group in front of them, the group behind probably would have caught the OP's group regardless. I agree w/ that. However, the group behind the OP's group would have seen that and realized that the slow play isn't the OP's group's fault. So, I would think that the group behind the OP's wouldn't have been a-holes like they were if that were the case. That's obviously speculation, but that's what I would have thought would have happened.

[Shindig]

For those wondering how it resolved: I played today, along with the friend from the situation above, courtesy of the Chief Operations Officer of the course. Everything was fantastic: service was great, the course was in great condition, and pace of play was great (we were off mid-morning and finished in four hours). Of course, I informed him of my positive experience, and I plan to play the course again, with the assumption that my first visit was an abnormal experience for the course.

[DarkPrince]

Good to hear :)

[soloredd]

How in the world is 4:15 too long for a foursome?? You speed golf folks kill me.

The entire thing sounds botched from the starter. I've never heard of wait until they are off the green on a par 4. Maybe wait until they are ON the green. And keeping up with the group in front is lame. What if said group is a twosome playing from the same tees? How do you expect a foursome playing different tees (I'm assuming) to keep pace?

Glad you got some sort of resolution but I'd be upset.

[blackxpress]

Glad to hear they finally did the right thing. As a starter/ranger myself, let me respond to your original situation. First, when the Marshall asked you to pick up the pace, you should have told him the group behind you was hitting into you. Maybe you did but if you said so in your original post I must have overlooked it. Hitting to a green from 150 when there are golfers on the green is never acceptable, regardless of pace of play. If the marshall was aware of that and did nothing about it he was not doing his job. When you told the guy in the pro shop about it he should have contacted the marshall, who should have had a come to Jesus meeting with those jerks and put them on notice that it would not be tolerated. PERIOD! When I see guys doing that, they receive one warning. If they do it again, they are cordially invited to pick up their balls and head for the parking lot post haste. If someone gets injured by a ball and can prove that we were negligent in protecting their safety we could be liable. We'd rather not go there.

[ITgolfHack]

Cool man, glad to hear it turned out well, it seems tough to find good customer service anywhere anymore, but it does still exist in some places.

I haven't read through this entire thing yet, so if someone else mentioned this I apologize. I play with a mixed group all the time and it simply takes longer when you have to walk/drive up to another set of tee's, it's easily 7 to 15 minutes per round. The fact that you guys still finished one hole behind the group in front of you shows that you were making up time the entire way, assuming they were all hitting from the same tee of course.

I really don't understand what the rush is all the time. Short of going through the group ahead, you are going to finish your round x number of minutes after the group ahead walks off the 18th green. So if they finish right at 1:00, you are going to finish at 1:00+x. Nothing that you do between the time you tee off to the moment you reach that final green is going to change that. Hitting into them is not going to make them play faster, if anything it's going to piss them off and wreck their concentration and they might start playing worse and take even longer.

[Par Fore]

Thanks for posting up the results....glad it all worked out for the good!