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moe

How Do I Stop My Right Hand from Turning?

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Hi all,

I recently started have some serious trouble with my driver. I duck hook just about every shot. Occasionally, I top the ball and it skips straight into the ground about 50 yards. I'm right-handed and have been using a 10-finger grip. My irons are excellent and very consistent. At one time, I could drive 280 and my irons were terrible. Now it's just the opposite. I think over-practicing hitting down on my irons ruined my driving swing.

I recently switched over to an interlocking grip for my driver, but still no success. I'll set up proper at address, but by the time I get my downswing to the ball, my right hand has turned and the club face is very closed. For irons, I naturally set up a little closed, but this works well for me.

I also tried to focus on keeping my right wrist to the sky during impact, but still no success.

Please help.

Many Thanks.
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does the ball start out straight? what is the initial line of flight (1st 20 yards or so...)?
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I am a hooker myself so I have tried everything from drawing and hooking the ball with all my clubs. try the following:

1) check your grip for neutral or weak
2) watch your backswing and make sure that you are not taking it too much inside
3) watch your distance from the ball are you at least an open hand away from the body to your arms
4) watch your ball position, make sure that you are not too much forward
5) try an unconventional style by slightly opening the club face at address
6) As in an wedge play, you can swing the driver without closing the club face and simply keeping it square at and after impact
7) learn to play the fade or slice and this will help you compensate and make you understand what causes draws and slices
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Most of the time the ball starts left and goes left. These are not ordinary hooks. They're ducks of about 20-30 yards.

I managed to straighten it a little by rotating my hands (clockwise) more during my takeaway and backswing. This produces a straighter ball, but they still dive into the ground at 20 - 50 yards.

When I manage to get more than 50 yards out of a ball, it's usually a very low, line-drive hit shot.
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That mean your swing plane is also off if the ball start immediately left and if its hooking your club face is closing as well.
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If the ball starts out to the left, that means your clubface is shut at impact. The ball starts 80-100% towards the angle of the club face at impact, depending on the club and how great the difference in angle between club face and swing path is.

Ball starting left and continuing left means primarily that the clubface is shut, you can't tell the swing path, other then that it is more to the right. Get the clubface sorted first, then see what happens. This can be seen when the ball starts straight. If it curves to the left, you've come from in-to-out, if it curves to the right, you've come out-to-in.

Start by swinging slowly and shorter. Chances are great that you are trying too much and too hard. Work on the take-away and a smooth downswing. Don't think about distance, just get the impact right. Try to mimic what you do with the irons. Sounds like you are topping the ball really. How high do you tee it? Try moving the ball an inch or two inside your left heel, tee it with 40% of the ball showing above the clubhead, swing down on the ball.
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If its starting left and going left that means that your aiming left and shutting the club face. You might think you are aiming to the right. You aim your feet were you want the ball to start, you aim your club were you want it to end up.

Instead of picking a target to aim your clubface at, pick two points were you think your are going to put your feet at. Make sure that is parrallel to your target line. Then just line up your club face Perpendicular to that line. Thats easier to do than try to line up your feet after you line up your club. Its a bit opposite of what the Pro's do, but its something that works for me.

I have a duck hook alot, it tells me that i am not getting my weight shift to the left side of my body (right handed swing), my hips fly out laterally and i loose the anlge of my back. This causes me to get stuck behind the ball and have my hands flip to catch up with the hips. This causes me to duck hook it. To fix this i would take easy practice swings with your feet together. concentrate one the slight weight shift between the feet, enough so you can make contact, but don't go laterally or you will fall over. Try to hit good solid shots with this, then go to a regular swing and try to get that smooth swing feeling and your hips not sliding laterally. People think you need to bump your hips, shift your hips laterally to start the weight shift. The weight shift does happen, but its in the core, not the hips. Its gradual, but many over do this and it causes in balance.
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If its starting left and going left that means that your aiming left and shutting the club face. You might think you are aiming to the right. You aim your feet were you want the ball to start, you aim your club were you want it to end up.

no, not really. we only know that the clubface is shut cos the ball is starting out left. that the ball curves farther left means only that the swing path is to the right of the club face. his path and alignment could be perfectly lined up, and just a closed face.
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Well i was tought, when you want to fade the ball, aim your feet were you want the ball to start, aim the club were you want it to end. So a fade would be, aim your feet to the right, aim your club at the pin, and swing the club along your feet, and you got a fade.

So if i take that logic to a duck hook, that starts left, he must either be aiming left, or has such an over the top swing that the club path. The over the top is unlikely because this produces spin that causes a slice. So his path must be inside out. He is also flipping his hands over, causing more spin. No way a duck hook happens on a normal inside out swing. My swing was so inside out my left hand almost touched my right hip on the downswing, i never duck hooked it. I only ducked hooked in when i got stuck on my left side and my hands flipped through impact to compensate for lack of weight shift.

So if his starts left, and ducks, then he must be aiming left and flipping his hands.

My best guess from personal experience, i get this duck hook a couple times a year. Check the alignment, check the weight transfer. If both are fine, see if the hands are flipping. If so, then you will have to develop a feel for it not flipping. Which means doing something completely opposite of what they are use to doing. I would try hitting a knock down shot for a while, making sure the left hand is bowed at impact, keeping the hands low through impact and feeling like the top of the left hand is traveling at the target.
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Well i was tought, when you want to fade the ball, aim your feet were you want the ball to start, aim the club were you want it to end. So a fade would be, aim your feet to the right, aim your club at the pin, and swing the club along your feet, and you got a fade.

Yes, this is how most of us was taught, but it is wrong.

Definitive Club Face Angle & Swing Path on Ball Flight Thread Ball flight laws article
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I take that mostly as true. I remember johnny miller once said that he could fade the ball with his hands alone, because he could minutely open or close his hands just before contact and through contact to shape the ball.

ok now that i think about it, and visualize the club comming through the ball, i can see how that is true. If the toe of the club is past the hozel, then the club face is pointing to the left and the ball should go left, unless you have an outside in golf swing which part of that can neutralize it.

So the article is saying that to hit a fade, were you want to start it to the left of the hole and bring it in to the right. If 85% of the balls initial flight is based on angle of the club face, that means you want to have a close club face at impact, and have an outside in swing path.

I guess that makes sense, but there is more dynamics to the golf face than that. I played a 4-iron on the golf course the other day, were i aimed my body at the left side of the green, and i was going to hit a push fade. So my swing thought was to finish high and not rotate my arms over for a normal shot. That means, the clubface was open at impact. But my divot showed it heading right for i aimed. The ball started off a bit right of were i aimed and went right. So how did the ball go right if i didn't have an outside in swing path. the 15% of the swing path would be near 0 degrees. Then my clubface was open, so that means it would start to the right, which it did. But then it headed right. So that means an open club face, on a straight path will produce some sort of side spin to cause the ball to fade right. Because it faded about 15 yards.
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The ball doesn't care how you aim. What matters is the swing path angle relative to the club face angle.

If your ball starter right and continued right, that means the swing path went more to the left than the club face angle. Doesn't matter how you aim your body, the ball only care about the swing path and the club face relative to it. If you swing the club to the left of the club face angle, it will spin to the right. If you swing the club to the right of the club face angle, it will spin to the left.

The ball flight never lies, ever. How you set up and intend to hit a shot, and how you really swing, are often two different things.
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Thanks guys for helping me out on this one.

Reading all of your posts made me realize a few things that are wrong. I am definitely not aiming left. I made sure of this at the range the other night. So, I think ks8829 summed it up pretty well...
That mean your swing plane is also off if the ball start immediately left and if its hooking your club face is closing as well.

My 10-finger grip was growing stronger and stronger with the right hand over the years. This, coupled with the fact that my swing plane was totally off, made my hands turn over even more. I was rolling the wrists during my backswing and that put me totally out of place at the top. I needed to get back to interlocking and I needed to fix my swing.

So, I got back to basics the last few nights with a great book by Leslie King that I lost touch with and worked on my swing and things are starting to fall back into place again. I went through an "Eagle" bucket (135 balls) at the range the last two nights and I haven't duck hooked once. I hope it will last. In any case, I've learned a few things. It's amazing - as fast as you can pick it up, that's as fast as you can lose it. Many Thanks!
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Oh My God! The SAME thing happened to me... I see that you have fixed your hook, but I thought I'd chime in anyway....

I recently got back into the game after about 2.5 years off.... and my irons were fine, but I could not hit a straight drive to save myself (duck hook was my standard!).... until recently where I think I have fixed it.... the things I did...

1. Make sure clubface is neutral at address... for some reason I was setting up with a closed face
2. More upright swing
3. Neutral-Weak grip
4. Aim slightly left of target... not sure how this works, but i remember someone telling me to do this previously

Worked for me!
Ash.
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Think I found the solution to my problems with the hands turning over. Grip pressure. Less grip pressure allowed the wrists to swing freely and square up the club all by themselves. I also made a better turn, getting the hands deeper early on. My swing path is pretty good, when I get the ball to start straight, it continues straight, all my hooking is primarly from trying to control the club and holding too hard on the club.
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So the article is saying that to hit a fade, were you want to start it to the left of the hole and bring it in to the right. If 85% of the balls initial flight is based on angle of the club face, that means you want to have a close club face at impact, and have an outside in swing path.

Yup, face closed to the target, but it would be open to the swing path.

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