Correlation between ballstriking and HDCP

[Bump-n-MI]

How many times have we heard on this forum "I'm a good iron player but can't putt and/or have a terrible short game"? In my 30+ years of golf I have only encountered a handful of people that fit into this very exclusive category and I have yet to play with a mid-range capper who had the ball striking capability and repeatability of a low capper (and yes….I know there are exceptions). Do these people exist---sure…..is it common---absolutely not.

Ballstriking, more often then not, has a direct correlation to a persons short game and putting ability. I think too many people convince themselves that they have a high HDCP because their short game sucks or because they putt for s**t. Ballstriking, short game, and putting are obviously major contributors in a persons ability to score….what I'm trying to say you typically do not have one (or two) without the other.

….be honest with yourself when selecting equipment….rant over

[saevel25]

Monday, 7 out of 9 greens in regulation. Shot even par. I boggied because i scalded my sandwedge on a chip, had to get up and down for bogie. But the rest of the day i two putted.

So i wouldn't call myself a great putter, i rarely one putt. I don't know if you are considering this.

Last night i had 4 out or 9 GIR, with 20-25 mph winds, 40 degree weather. I would consider that a good day ;b.. But i three putted 3 times, and didn't get up and down once.

[Zeph]

So, to sum up, you are mirroring what Erik pointed out in a thread earlier that ball-striking is the number one cause for why a high handicapper is a high handicapper.

I can't say I've had the impression that lots of people have a good iron play, but bad short game and putting. Other way around really. Most say their putting is good, short game a bit variable, but long game and irons not good.

Handicap is primarily a direct measurement of your ball-striking ability, I have no doubt about that.

[golfaddiction]

I think there is a difference when talking about 1-10 handicap and 11-20 handicap. In the latter group (where I am), I believe without any improvement to ball-striking, a player can get to about a 10 range by improving their short game. It often takes 3 or 4 shots for me to get up and down from within pitching distance. If I miss 2/3 of the greens, I could be 15-20 shots over par on holes when I miss the green.

If you are under 10 handicap, you will have to improve all aspects of your game, including ball-striking, to get into scratch territory.

In the third group (over 20), yes, ball-striking does have to improve before getting down to a 20. These players mis-hit the ball too often, and are often over par before even getting within pitching distance.

Hdcp 1-10: Improve all aspects of game
Hdcp 11-20: Improve short game
Hdcp 21+: Improve ball striking

[Bump-n-MI]

So, to sum up, you are mirroring what Erik pointed out in a thread earlier that ball-striking is the number one cause for why a high handicapper is a high handicapper.

Didn't read that one but…o.k.

I can't say I've had the impression that lots of people have a good iron play, but bad short game and putting. Other way around really. Most say their putting is good, short game a bit variable, but long game and irons not good.

Well, I can say that I've had that impression (thus my original post) and no, its not the other way around for me. Perhaps we are reading different things. I've played with hundreds (if not thousands) of people spanning over 30 years and it seems everybody has the same excuse as to why their HDCP is where it is….deficiencies in their short game and putting. Like I said it is rare for me to hear or read that ballstriking is the issue.

Handicap is primarily a direct measurement of your ball-striking ability, I have no doubt about that.

Sure, ball striking is part of the equation.

[kpaulhus]

Ill tell you right now, Im a 14 because of my lack of hitting greens....I can chip and putt fine. I average 33 putts a round, I get up and down 35% of the time, but Im a 14 because my 2nd shot usually doesn't find the dance floor. I am working on my ball striking, but it is something that must be ingrained and repeated continuously.

[DavidFehertysBike]

Its all reletive. You need to be able to place the ball where you want to have sucess, but ballstriking alone is not the measure of how good a player is. Having more of a rounded game is important. I know this older guy, probably around 65, and he is a good player despite not being able to hit the ball all that great. He is a good course manager and morphs into an assassin inside of 100 yards. He plays to a 5 handicap despite barley getting 200 on his drives. I played with him on a 6500 something yard course, and he shot 2 over. He would be hitting 5 irons and hybrids that would barley make the green where i would be using 8 or 9, and he'd still manage to tie holes with me. He beat me by 4 stokes that day, matter of fact. I was clearly the better ballstriker, but he was the better player that day.

[Bump-n-MI]

Ill tell you right now, Im a 14 because of my lack of hitting greens....I can chip and putt fine. I average 33 putts a round, I get up and down 35% of the time, but Im a 14 because my 2nd shot usually doesn't find the dance floor.

If your 2nd shot does not find the dance floor and you still average 1.83 putts per green then you need just as much work on your chipping and putting as you do ballstriking.

[i-Guy]

I've played with hundreds (if not thousands) of people spanning over 30 years and it seems everybody has the same excuse as to why their HDCP is where it is….deficiencies in their short game and putting. Like I said it is rare for me to hear or read that ballstriking is the issue.

Well you would hear that

"ball striking" is the reason from me...I am an 8 handicap and the following are my stats for 2009: FIR = 41% (use to think this was a problem and really I am not that bad a driver of the golf ball except that when I am spray it off the tee...I WAY spray it..see avg penalty strokes below) GIR = 33% (this is terrbile and I think the #1 reason my handicap is not lower at this point) Putts per Round = 30 (feel good about this and continue to work on this) U&D; = 40% = (feel good about this and continue to work on this) Avg Penalty strokes per round = 3 (mainly from hitting drives out of bounce)...

[Leftygolfer]

I would say it is rare for a person to hit 50% of greens and be a 10 handicapper (that is about average for a scratch player). I am a 10 and the reason I am a 10 is A) I don't consistantly drive it to where I can hit the green 2) I hit a few terrible shots that cost me big 3) I make stupid short game errors and make bogies after playing the hole well tee to green. To be a good player you don't have to be long or the most impressive ball striker, just consistant. I hit it plenty far and my good shots are really good, it is what I do between them that cost me. Where a good player makes pars off there bad holes, I make doubles.

[kpaulhus]

If your 2nd shot does not find the dance floor and you still average 1.83 putts per green then you need just as much work on your chipping and putting as you do ballstriking.

Yeah I know. Ill have my rounds where I get up and down a lot, but then those where no matter what Ill 2 putt. I usually hit 100 balls at the range 3 nights a week, spend 20 mins on the chipping green, then another 15-25 on the putting green. I think my stats are horrible lately due to some really bad rounds to start 2010 when I was playing golf in freezing temps. My next 6 rounds should drop my handicap to a 12.5-13 if I stay mid 80's like I have been lately.

[sean_miller]

How many times have we heard on this forum "I'm a good iron player but can't putt and/or have a terrible short game"?

My regular golf partners tell me I need to work on my short game. They mean I need to sink more birdie putts and have fewer 3 putts. I usually shoot better scores than they do but considering where I am off the tee, they expect more out of me. I'd say my ball striking is as good as my short game - except for putting.

Like with my irons, distance control is typically bang on, but aiming is a problem. I'm working on it with a new putter and a new(ish) stroke. I'm more comfortable over a 50 foot chip than a 15 ' putt and I'm trying to incoporate my chipping routine into my putting. Things like tempo and ball position. I'll be very disappoointed if I'm a 10.0 (or higher) at the end of the 2010 season.

[saevel25]

That is why single digit HDCP have a complete game. Pro's get up and down about 60% of the time. Pro's hit GIR 64% of the time.

Number of Greens is, 11 greens out of 18, the best was 71% in 2009, thats about 13 greens

That means they have to try to save par 7 times a round, they get up and down 4 out of the 7 times. The average Pro has to make up at least 3 bogies per round over the course of the season. So were do the make this up at, on the green.

The birdie conversion rate is 29% on the tour. So your looking at, 11 greens the are making 3 birdies per round or better, add in a few eagles.

Your looking at 7 one putts a round average for a pro, 4 for up and down and 3 for birdies per round. Its rare to see a three putt, so you are looking at average 29 putts per round.

For most golfers, course management and short game will drasticly drop there scores. If you can't manage around the green, three putting or worse. That just adds up more than leaving a few iron shots fat or thinned, or sliced. The closer you get to the hole, the more important those strokes get. A person can course manage themselves to the green, but on the green there is no leeway for error, because you can't make up for 1 missed putt. You can make up by 1 bad chip, make the putt. Or one bad iron, hit a good chip or pitch. 1 bad driver, 1 bad iron, good short game can save you par. You miss a par putt, you are gaurenteed bogey. That is why short game and putting matter more for lower handicapers.

[allin]

Some of the I am a poor putter disconnect comes from peoples perception that putting is easy, ball striking difficult. All of the conditions, lie, wind, rough, level etc plus the innte difficulty of making a good swing results in most of us cutting ourselves a little slack on ball striking. Putting seems simple, but all of the things above, if you substitued grain and greenspeed for lie apply to putting also. Plus with small unseen undulations, spike marks, footprints, old ball marks etc. there is more randomness in putting than we really acknowledge. Making a putt over 20 feet is really very difficult. If you are not a good ball striker you are going to have very few birdie putts and way to many par puts between 5 and 20 feet. This makes not throwing away strokes the key, consistency in ball striking, chipping it close and having great distance control the hallmarks of scratch golfers. Putting is the easiest to improve, chipping next, ball striking the hardest. For quick improvement start with putting and work your way back. Ball striking is the domino that puts you in position for easier chips and putts so improvement in that area the largest longest lasting effect.

[ITgolfHack]

I am definitely a high handicapper because of my ball striking. My friends call me Mr. automatic when it comes to hitting the fairway with the driver, but I can only knock it about 215. About 50% of the time my second shot is a train wreck that requires another iron that isn't a wedge. The other 50% tend to land at least somewhere near the green and occasionally even on it. I do ok putting, rarely 3 putt, but just as rarely 1 putt. My chipping is not so good either.

I do know a guy that is the perfect example of your exception case though. He bombs it off the tee, usually hits the green or damn near it with his second shot, pitches it close a lot of the time, and is thrilled when he only 2 putts. I agree though, he's the exception to the rule.

[saevel25]

http://www.golf.com/golf/instruction...2459-5,00.html

10'-15' putts
Pros: 30%
scratch: 22%
10 HDCP: 19%
20 HDCP: 14%

15'-20' putts
Pros: 19%
scratch: 5%
10 HDCP: 10%
20 HDCP: 17%

20'-25' putts
Pros: 12%
scratch: 12%
10 HDCP: 13%
20 HDCP: 4%

Honestly, unless a Pro hits it with in 10', they only have a 30% chance of making the putt. So yeah they might get more opportunity at getting less than 10' putts. So some ball striking there, but the Pro's dominate putting stats from 10-20'. Over 20' we level the playing field.

[DocWu1948]

Today, I walked 9 and shot 50 with 21 putts. I had three pars and one bogey for 15 strokes, so I averaged 7 on the other 5 holes. Bear with me while I analyze them...
#2 -(par 4) on in three and three putted for a six.
#3 (par 5) dribbled 2nd shot 10 yards into lake. on in six with penalty and two putt for an 8.
#6 (par 4) I duff a 20 chip. On in 4 and 3 putt for a 7.
#7 (par 5) topped 3rd shot. Just off green with 4th. On in 5 and 2 putt for 7.
#9 (par 4) second shot in trap. Two swings to get out. On in 4 and three putt for a 7.

Mistake free golf would have saved me 5 strokes, but I only had a legit shot at saving two putts. So, yes, it's the ball striking.

[DavidFehertysBike]

I had 25 putts in the round i finished up about an hour ago and guess what? Shot 83. Go figure...lol. Nothing like draining those clutch bogey putts... I guess i should just shut up and improve my ballstriking...