Drop Area Rules Question

[albatross]

Ok, I'll make this short and to the point. I had a debate with my buddy last night and I want to see if I am correct here.

The hole we are discussing is at a local course. Par 3 130 yards and it's an island green. If you rinse one in the water, there is a drop area on the tee side of the hazard (meaning you still have to hit it over the hazard).

So if you hit it from here, you are obviously hitting 3. The course has also created a drop area that is next to the green but totally out of trouble and OVER the hazard and they allow you to just hit 4 from there so you can't possibly hit two in the water if you choose drop area number 2.

I don't think this is within the rules of golf. If you use a designated drop area after hitting in a hazard, aren't you ALWAYS hitting 3 on your second shot???

I realize the course probably does this to speed up play and not have someone hit it in the water over and over from the first drop area but can a local rule make you lie 3 after 1 shot in a hazard??

[Ignorant]

Ok, I'll make this short and to the point. I had a debate with my buddy last night and I want to see if I am correct here.

That kind of Local Rule is overriding real Rules of Golf and is contrary to those. Thus it should be changed.

[msd3075]

Ok, I'll make this short and to the point. I had a debate with my buddy last night and I want to see if I am correct here.

If you are following the Rules of Golf exactly as you would in a tournament, there should be only one drop area and not an extra one with an extra stroke penalty. The addition of the green-side drop zone is (as you mentioned) probably put in place for pace-of-play issues and to help the average golfer during casual rounds. If you and your buddy are playing strictly by the Rules as they are written, the "sceond" drop area shouldn't even exist and your next shot should be taken from the point where the ball crossed the hazard, the first drop area, or from the tee box.

[Drudersh]

I would agree with MSD there that this second drop area is in all likelihood put in place to help with pace-of-play issues. In which case I am all for it. Lord knows we've all been behind the group who puts 4 in the water and then re-tees and doubles up on their lost balls. Now I must HI-JACK this thread with a par three question of my own.

So I was playing a stroke play tourny yesterday and it was a shorter par 3 around 160 yards. It was raining and a little windy so I wanted to flight the ball low and therefore, did not tee it up. I placed the ball on the deck, and what I'd typically do in this situation is move the ball around with my club until I have it properly primped and propped up. It occurred to me that this may not be legal, so I did it by hand instead. I asked my group, and no one knew the answer.

SO, is it or is it not allowed during a tournament to use your club to adjust the ball while it's on the tee box before you are addressing it and ready to make your swing?

[msd3075]

I would agree with MSD there that this second drop area is in all likelihood put in place to help with pace-of-play issues. In which case I am all for it. Lord knows we've all been behind the group who puts 4 in the water and then re-tees and doubles up on their lost balls. Now I must HI-JACK this thread with a par three question of my own.

I could be wrong, but I don't think the ball is in play on the hole until you take your first stroke. It's much the same as if you were to knock the ball off the tee before taking your swing; yes, you touched the ball with the club face but the ball is not yet in play and you did not have intent to make the stroke. Hopefully someone with a bit more knowledge on this can help out.

[Ignorant]

SO, is it or is it not allowed during a tournament to use your club to adjust the ball while it's on the tee box before you are addressing it and ready to make your swing?

It is allowed as the ball is not in play until you have made a stroke at it. So feel free to do that if you wish. Occasionally somebody might challenge you if you first lay your ball down and move it into a better position with your club. Then you address it and step away and decide to change the ball into a new position, with hand or with club. This is also perfectly allowed as the ball is not yet in play.

[kfowler]

Ok, I'll make this short and to the point. I had a debate with my buddy last night and I want to see if I am correct here.

Which drop zone is the rating and slope based off of? That should be the only one used. You'd probably have to asked the course pro.

[Ignorant]

If you and your buddy are playing strictly by the Rules as they are written, the "sceond" drop area shouldn't even exist and your next shot should be taken from the point where the ball crossed the hazard, the first drop area, or from the tee box.

I would have to disagree with that to some extent. If there is a Local Rule in place it should be obeyed even though it might be contrary to the Rules of Golf. In a competition the best thing is to ask a member of the Committee to come by and explain the situation and then follow his recommendation. This way you would escape from any Rules violation.

Even it would be very clear that a Local Rule is not based on the Rules of Golf I would be extremely careful not to play by it in a competition. You must remember that other players may already have played according to that Local Rule and in that case the ruling would most likely not be advantageous to you. During a competition Local Rules may not be altered.

Which drop zone is the rating and slope based off of? That should be the only one used. You'd probably have to asked the course pro.

I wonder if course rating has anything to do with drop areas. Also there may be several drop areas for one water hazard, there is nothing to prevent that. What is wrong here is that a player is assigned 2 penalties for hitting his ball in the water instead of 1 that is described in the Rules of Golf. Thus the Local Rule in question is overriding the actual RoG and is not a proper one.

[albatross]

I would have to disagree with that to some extent. If there is a Local Rule in place it should be obeyed even though it might be contrary to the Rules of Golf. In a competition the best thing is to ask a member of the Committee to come by and explain the situation and then follow his recommendation. This way you would escape from any Rules violation.

So does this local rule override the USGA Rules of Golf? It sounds like there is a little debate in this thread. Under the rules of Golf can you ever lie 3 after hitting the ball in a water hazard if this were an "official" tournament? Can there be two drop areas under the rules of golf? One where you lie 2 and one where you lie 3. I still think the answer is no but I would love more opinions here.

[RemyM]

There certainly can be more then one drop area, but the thing about them is you can't use one that would put you closer to the hole then a normal drop under the rules. The add two strokes to use a certain one is not within the rules.

[Ignorant]

So does this local rule override the USGA Rules of Golf? It sounds like there is a little debate in this thread. Under the rules of Golf can you ever lie 3 after hitting the ball in a water hazard if this were an "official" tournament? Can there be two drop areas under the rules of golf? One where you lie 2 and one where you lie 3. I still think the answer is no but I would love more opinions here.

Think it this way: what is the single Rule that gives you 2 penalties for hitting your ball into a water hazard?

[Jay-Bird]

Boooooo - to courses making up their own rules - when they are in blatant disregard of the Rules of Golf.

[dhanson]

1992 Rules of Golf as Approved by the USGA and R&A; Golf Club

Rule 26-1
"If a ball lies in, touches, or is lost in a water hazard (whether the ball lies in the water or not), the player may under penalty of one stroke :
a. Play a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played; or
b. Drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped."

On a par three, you don't have to drop the ball, though. You have the option of re-teeing the ball (I'm not reading this in the rule book, just referencing this video of shots at the 17th at TPC Sawgrass , specifically the Fred Couples "hole in 3.")

[Ignorant]

1992 Rules of Golf as Approved by the USGA and R&A; Golf Club

Since 1992 the Rules of Golf have been re-edited four times. Lucky for You 26-1 is not one of those that have changed

[albatross]

Ok, just so I have some clarity here can I get simple yes or no answers to these questions:

Under the USGA Rules of golf can a course:

1.) Have two separate drop areas on the same hole?

2.) Have a drop area on the other side of the hazard?

3.) Have a single drop area that forces you to be hitting 4 on your next shot after hitting into a water hazard?

Let's say there was a USGA sanctioned event at this course tomorrow, what would have to be done to make this legal. That is, at what point can a local rule not outweigh a USGA rule?

Finally, am I right then in telling my buddy that it is against the rules to take a drop on the other side of the hazard and lie 3 after hitting one shot in the hazard, EVEN IF it is a local rule?

[RemyM]

Ok, just so I have some clarity here can I get simple yes or no answers to these questions:

1. Yes

2. Not for that hazard 3. No Local rules are not allowed to be contrary to the rules of golf. In the back of the rule book are speciment local rules that are allowed. An event being played under the rules of golf would not be using the drop area on the other side of the hazard.

[dhanson]

Since 1992 the Rules of Golf have been re-edited four times. Lucky for You 26-1 is not one of those that have changed

Ha. I figured it had changed. It's just the copy of the rules that I always keep in my bag.

[Ignorant]

Ha. I figured it had changed. It's just the copy of the rules that I always keep in my bag.

Well, keep on carrying it but don't bet all your money when getting entangled in an argument on the course...