Sam Snead

[saevel25]

I am curious, does anyone find success with both there feet pointing outwards a bit. I know sam sneed did this when he played. I know hogans book talks about flaring the left foot.

[iacas]

I am curious, does anyone find success with both there feet pointing outwards a bit. I know sam sneed did this when he played. I know hogans book talks about flaring the left foot.

I flare both feet 15 degrees or so. Most golfers I know flare their feet a little. The left is important as it helps you to move forward a good bit more through impact, and the right helps the hip turn a little.

[MMouse]

I made this change this year and it has improved my consistency, particularly with the driver.

[Kieran123]

Yep, I also started doing this about 2 months ago. Balance and weight shift improved, giving me better ball striking!

It also stopped my left knee turning so much which was good.

[sean_miller]

Copying a swing like Sam Snead had would be a good goal for most people.

[Ole_Tom_Morris]

Sneed's swing was at one time billed as the "swing for the ages" or something like that. I agree that bringing the hands up halfway between the shoulders is easier for most people--think of it as halfway between Nicklaus and Hogan. May be easier for those wit arthritis or other shoulder problems.

But the modern swing employed by most pros and long drivers have the hands held high and a 90 degree angle in the right arm at the top of the swing. Which requires a "magic move" to start the downswing to get the elbow back against the right side.

I was taught a flat swing with the hands over the right shoulder and well below head height with the right elbow tight to the side and crooked at maybe 30 degrees, and have stayed with that. Have never agreed that a high swing is a longer swing; isn't the arc the same? . My swing does not seem to have a "magic move" because at the top of the swing my elbow stays in downswing position. Which ought to mean that the planes of the backswing and downswing are abut the same. (Differing planes being a result of dropping that elbow down in the "magic move.")

As for foot placement, I am curious: if you play better with the feet splayed out, do you naturally walk that way too?

I am slightly pigeon-toed (inward pointing) and do not feel as balanced or as powerful when I turn both feet out. I feel I have more power if I have my right foot at a right angle to the line of flight and my left foot splayed out very slightly toward the target.

Try it. I think you will find you have more speed in the hip turn if your right foot is square because it makes your foot longer in relation to the hip turn than if the right toes are pointing out, and you can use more force/speed in turning the hips. The whole right edge of the right foot pushes against the ground in adding force to the hip turn, that that edge can exert more force if it is square to the line of the swing. Also I think coming up onto the right toes in the follow through is more natural if the right foot is at zero degrees.

Could be just me. It may be that we each favor our strongest muscles in the golf swing. My largest and strongest muscles are in the calves, and I really work the calves when I hit balls full swing. For you, your hip turn may use the thigh muscles more.

(I experimented with this some because of my interest in long drive a few years ago.)

[zeg]

I generally follow the Hogan approach to my feet. I put the back foot square to the line, and let the front foot flare up to a quarter turn or so, depending on the club and terrain around the ball. On flat ground, I'd have maximum flare of my left foot for a driver, down to nearly square to the line for a wedge.

[Greg]

The hammer guy says to do that in his most recent infomercial for the hammer x, though I think 45 deg is a bit much(for both feet) but whos to argue with a guy who can get banned from drving ranges for hitting the ball too far and hitting it over mountains and rivers. POWWWWWWW!!!!!! Though seriously I have heard that it helps you make a better hip turn especially if you lack some flexibility, which I could use more of.

[Ole_Tom_Morris]

"...Though seriously I have heard that it helps you make a better hip turn especially if you lack some flexibility...."

Absolutely, though I think you have less flexibility in the follow through with the right foot pointed out.

Btw, as for flexibility, there's an exercise I do. (I like to read in bed, and as I read, I'll get my legs and back in odd positions for stretching.) The golf exercise consists of lying on my back with both shoulders down, but with the pelvis and legs turned at a right angle. Reverse after a couple of minutes. Feels relaxing. [Who sez beds are just for sleeping or sex? The bed is my home office, work surface, and exercise mat.]

[Rexx]

Both feet flared equally at about 10-15 degrees (I'm guessing). Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like a majority of the pros are this way as well (sometimes flaring the front foot more with the driver). Usually, I see the squared feet (and narrow stance) with high handicappers that tend to have a very armsy swing. But to each his own...

[holeinon3]

Michael Breed from the Golf Fix actually took a look at Snead's swing this week. He noted that the flare is common in good players and more specifically Snead has a "bowing out" motion with his left knee that helps transfer weight better. I was working on that earlier this week and it really seemed to help!

[shortstop20]

I used to play with both feet square or slightly flared out, but since I've changed to Hogan's method, I have much better balance and footwork through the ball. I hit the ball further, with less effort.

[zeg]

Though seriously I have heard that it helps you make a better hip turn especially if you lack some flexibility, which I could use more of.

IIRC one of the reasons Hogan suggests not flaring the right foot is to prevent over-turning your hips on the backswing. I'd check, but I'm not sure where I stuck my copy of Five Lessons. In any case, I find that I can get plenty of backswing rotation without flaring, so I haven't bothered trying.

[shortstop20]

IIRC one of the reasons Hogan suggests not flaring the right foot is to prevent over-turning your hips on the backswing.

Yes, that is why he cautions against it.

[RC]

I keep the back foot square most of the time, but toe it forward for maximum power while driving. I find this keeps my right leg leaning left very well on the backswing and it puts me in a great position to push forward and turn. You have to be pretty flexible to do this but if you can and still get a full shoulder turn, I can add a couple of mph to my swing speed. It helps me push forward. Front foot is turn out normally.

[Ole_Tom_Morris]

I'd forgotten that Hogan recommended placing the back foot square in addressing the ball. Somebody, was it Hank Haney or Ledbetter, said that "Five Lessons" is nothing but a description of how to keep from hitting a hook. And Hogan was claimed to say that hitting a hook made him want to vomit. Put Hogan on the couch for hook-phobia.

Hogan's keeping the right foot square in order to limit the turn of the hips in the backswing is another anti-hook measure. If the hips turn too much, isn't there a tendency to swing inside out, which imparts a hooking spin to the ball?

Haven't you wondered, entirely apart from golf, why most people walk with their toes pointed (splayed) out? Is it learned? Is it a matter of bone structure in the hip? Muscular development?

I remember hearing Rita Moreno, the actress/dancer who was distingished for winning an oscar, a tony, and an emmy, explaining that while athletes tend to turn their feet in when landing on one foot, dancers are taught to land with the toes pointing out.

Anyway, I think it is learned behavior. I think that each of us ought to do exercises such as deadlifts and bridges splay-footed, pigeon-toed, toes-straight. This strengthens the glutes in unaccustomed ways and may help to avoid joint damage. I like to do a hundred plies each morning, to stretch the muscles around the hip joints.

Sam Snead did point both feet out addressing the ball. And he did have a distinctive "sitting down" move with his knees pointing out like an old man's as he went into the downswing. That "sitting down" move is common among excellent golfers, but was sure noticeable in Sneed's swing.

[Question: is that "sitting down" phase where the weight is transferred back to both legs a way of pausing and letting the hands catch up to the hips? What is the duration of the move? Do those who have a feeling of hitting against a stiffened forward leg as the hands catch up to the hips have as pronounced a "sitting down" phase of the swing? Need to look at some film.]

I tried to copy that "sitting down" move, and with toes out, but somehow it felt like a position for a relaxed swing, like Snead's, and not a power swing. Though no one can question that Snead could hit a ball a long way, with a wooden driver and a balata ball.

One does have to be cautious in copying Snead, because he was not a normal human. He was described as being "double jointed".

[saevel25]

His swing, like many fluid swings are those for the flexible. He looked tall and lengthly. I am 6'1" 224lbs, but i am a bit bulky, pretty solid. When i make a full turn, i will be short of parallel because i will have to turn past 90 degrees to get there. I need to learn to stop short of parallel.

[Ole_Tom_Morris]

Back to Hogan's Five Lessons for a tick. Snead was a major Hogan rival on tour, they were born the same year, sometimes finished 1 & 2 in the same tournament. When Hogan was disparaging the practice of pointing the back foot out, it really seems like he was aiming criticism at Snead. And remember that when Hogan bobbled a shot while playing with Snead, Snead asked him, "Did you hear that pane of glass breaking?" referring to Hogan's book. They were not friends.