My Swing (nick4501)

[bunkerputt]

Guys,  settle down a little.  Don't forget the purpose of this thread is to help Nick out.  I think it's awesome that there are so many people that are kind enough to want to help him out here.  I really do.  You guys remind me of me a lot.  The best lesson I ever taught myself, as someone who likes to think things through, was to yield to those who were further along in the thinking process than I was.  Mike and Erik have given Nick some things to work on.  Right now, Nick is concerned with power, but as Erik said, it's a cart before the horse thing at this point.  Those two have helped a lot of people out and have some pretty darn good ideas on how to attack what is basically an instruction problem.  Give him a chance to digest some of what they have him working on and he can move on to the next thing.

[nick4501]

Hi guys.

Apologies for creating ANOTHER "My Swing" post, but I feel that my swing has changed enough since my last post to justify another.

I'm still suffering from a huge lack of distance (I used to be able to hit a 5 iron ~180 yards and now struggle to get 130 yards!) and I'm really struggling to find any sort of consistency.

I have a lesson booked for tomorrow (my first for about 10 years!), so I'm interested to see if you guys suggest the same as the pro tomorrow...

Thanks in advance!

[Nole77]

Just so I understand, this is your fourth "My Swing" thread?  Please take a moment to read this: http://thesandtrap.com/t/38240/my-swing-video-threads-rules-please-read

That being said, I just spent a few minutes looking at the other threads you've posted and for the life of me I can't see any huge changes that would merit a new thread.  Of course, it doesn't help that you're not actually hitting a ball here.

My not-so-expert advice?  Go back and reread the previous threads, there are some great tips in them.

[nick4501]

Originally Posted by Nole77

Just so I understand, this is your fourth "My Swing" thread?  Please take a moment to read this: http://thesandtrap.com/t/38240/my-swing-video-threads-rules-please-read

That being said, I just spent a few minutes looking at the other threads you've posted and for the life of me I can't see any huge changes that would merit a new thread.  Of course, it doesn't help that you're not actually hitting a ball here.

My not-so-expert advice?  Go back and reread the previous threads, there are some great tips in them.

I guess that's a fair point, but to be fair, my first "My Swing" thread was posted almost 2 years ago, so it's not like I'm spamming the forum... and since you can't see the ball flight in any of my previous threads, I don't see how not actually hitting a ball in this one is a problem.  That said, I have just read the "my swing" foums rules and realised that posting practice swings is a no-no - Sorry!

I have taken on board the tips from the previous posts (much appreciated, guys!), and hoped that some of them are apparent in this video - maybe not though?!  Either way, I had hoped to spark more ideas as to the cause of my problems...

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by nick4501

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nole77

Just so I understand, this is your fourth "My Swing" thread?  Please take a moment to read this: http://thesandtrap.com/t/38240/my-swing-video-threads-rules-please-read

That being said, I just spent a few minutes looking at the other threads you've posted and for the life of me I can't see any huge changes that would merit a new thread.  Of course, it doesn't help that you're not actually hitting a ball here.

My not-so-expert advice?  Go back and reread the previous threads, there are some great tips in them.

I guess that's a fair point, but to be fair, my first "My Swing" thread was posted almost 2 years ago, so it's not like I'm spamming the forum... and since you can't see the ball flight in any of my previous threads, I don't see how not actually hitting a ball in this one is a problem.  That said, I have just read the "my swing" foums rules and realised that posting practice swings is a no-no - Sorry!

I have taken on board the tips from the previous posts (much appreciated, guys!), and hoped that some of them are apparent in this video - maybe not though?!  Either way, I had hoped to spark more ideas as to the cause of my problems...

I think the only "no-no" is starting several "my swing" threads, but that's a job for a moderator (to merge them) so no worries there. You can hit a ball or nothing at all. It's up to you, but be prepared to not get any useful advice that way.

If I was to offer actual advice, I'd offer what a friend told me about my guitar playing style, "it's not too late to start over at the beginning." When you go for these lessons, don't be afraid to start over at square one.

[iacas]

Actually you've created four "My Swing" threads now, and I've merged them all. Please, one is enough. Keep using this one, please.

[nick4501]

Originally Posted by iacas

Actually you've created four "My Swing" threads now, and I've merged them all. Please, one is enough. Keep using this one, please.

Thanks for tidying it all up iacas.  Sorry for the confusion!

I will post the thoughts of the pro after today's lesson.

[Ernest Jones]

Originally Posted by nick4501

Thanks for tidying it all up iacas.  Sorry for the confusion!

I will post the thoughts of the pro after today's lesson.

I'm no pro but suspect your first priority would be getting your head to be more stable, it moves around alot and that makes it pretty hard to achieve any consistency. Take a look at the thread "A centered pivot" and then when you get that down look at "the biggest secret SLIDE YOUR HIPS", these two threads have had a bigger impact on my swing than anything else so far. In any case, you've come to the right place, the FREE information given out on this site is incredible.

[bunkerputt]

Nick, that swing looks the same.  Results should be the same.  Mechanics aside, you still aren't using your body effectively to generate any power.  Combine that with a huge club cast and all of the energy is gone.  The tendency in this kind of swing is to send shots high, weak and right, as well as cause a lot of lower back and left shoulder pain.  You may as well be hitting shots off your knees.  Start to feel like you are using your legs to swing your arms instead of your arms to hit the ball.  Get a feel for using the ground for power.  I don't advocate this guy's swing at all, but try hitting a few like this where the legs lead the swing:

Just let loose, have some fun and try it.  Try some Happy Gilmore's too.

Get your legs moving first like this:

Drink a Guiness for Darren Clarke if it will help.  Golf is a sport too and athleticism is a mechanical fundamental.

[nick4501]

Originally Posted by bunkerputt

....  Mechanics aside, you still aren't using your body effectively to generate any power.  Combine that with a huge club cast and all of the energy is gone.  The tendency in this kind of swing is to send shots high, weak and right, as well as cause a lot of lower back and left shoulder pain.  ....

bunkerputt - those are EXACTLY the problems I'm having...every one of them!  I'm very impressed that you can see this in my swing.

I had the lesson last night.  He started by changing my posture - I apparently had too much weight in my heels, with my knees bent too much and stood too far away from the ball, resulting in the arms locked together at the elbows that many of you have commented on.  He then said that I'm generating very little power because my body is not rotating at all, and that all of the club speed is being generated solely by my arms.  Finally, he said that the pain I've been getting (particularly just below my left shoulder blade) is because I'm ending my swing with a "reverse C shape".  He said that this is a consequence of not transferring my weight correctly.  I asked about my head movement (that is clearly apparent - especially in the latest "My Swing" video), but he didn't see that as a problem (or maybe I wasn't doing it as much last night!).

All in all, this doesn't sound very good!  After the lesson I was really trying to work on both the body twist and not ending my swing with the "reverse C", but couldn't quite see what I was doing wrong, and the pain in my back and left shoulder continued.

Any thoughts on any of this, guys?

[bunkerputt]

Originally Posted by nick4501

bunkerputt - those are EXACTLY the problems I'm having...every one of them!  I'm very impressed that you can see this in my swing.

Thanks, but it's not really that impressive.  Just sharing what I've learned from my own tinkering and spending lots of time on thesandtrap.com over the years.  Give some of my credit to the pros on this site as well because they've done a lot for my understanding of the swing.  Keep hanging out here too.  Really, it can only help.

Originally Posted by nick4501

I had the lesson last night.  He started by changing my posture - I apparently had too much weight in my heels, with my knees bent too much and stood too far away from the ball, resulting in the arms locked together at the elbows that many of you have commented on.  He then said that I'm generating very little power because my body is not rotating at all, and that all of the club speed is being generated solely by my arms.

It sounds like he's trying, whether successful or not, to get you into a more athletic setup position.  That's good, and certainly something you need so that you can move athletically.  Remember, it's not really an athletic setup if it doesn't let you move athletically.  I question what he means by "body is not rotating at all".  If he just means, "start using a sound pivot correctly", I certainly agree.  If he's advocating spinning the body, I wholeheartedly disagree.  Need more info about his instruction, but I'm already leaning towards an on-the-fence feeling about this guy from what you've said.

Originally Posted by nick4501

Finally, he said that the pain I've been getting (particularly just below my left shoulder blade) is because I'm ending my swing with a "reverse C shape".  He said that this is a consequence of not transferring my weight correctly.  I asked about my head movement (that is clearly apparent - especially in the latest "My Swing" video), but he didn't see that as a problem (or maybe I wasn't doing it as much last night!).

This doesn't sound right at all, and frankly worries me a bit.  The point at which you feel pain in the swing is where the damage is occurring.  Do you feel pain in your finish, or in this position:

10-to-1, it's during the transition from the top that it really hurts.  Let me know if I'm right and I'll tell you why and what to do about it.

Originally Posted by nick4501

All in all, this doesn't sound very good!  After the lesson I was really trying to work on both the body twist and not ending my swing with the "reverse C", but couldn't quite see what I was doing wrong, and the pain in my back and left shoulder continued.

Any thoughts on any of this, guys?

Nick, any body action you add at this point is going to greatly exacerbate your back and shoulder pain.  I'm a little disappointed in your lesson.  Fixing that pain seems like priority one to me.  You can't swing athletically if either of the following are true: 1.  You aren't in a ballanced athletic position . 2.  You are experiencing pain preventing you from making an athletic motion. I highly recommend putting the clubs down for a couple of days to get some perspective sorted out.  Let me know on this thread or send me a PM.

[sean_miller]

When I look at a screen capture of the OP's swing half way back, I can't tell if it he's in the middle of the backswing or on the downswing. That can't be good.

[nick4501]

Ernest Jones - Thanks for the reply.  I have read through those posts in the past, but will do so again and see if I can pin-point what I'm missing.

bunkerputt - Again, thanks for the advice.  The pain I get isn't like a sharp stabbing pain, but rather a dull ache which I only seem to get after the follow through.  It really does feel like I'm arching my back and my left shoulder blade is digging in.

The snap shot that you have taken above worries me.  My weight looks like it's pretty much static, and if anything, I'm leaning onto my front foot before I even start the down swing!  If this is the case, would it not result in the "reverse C" shape by forcing a follow through after my weight and hips are already as far forward as they can go (hope that made sense!)?

I'll be having another lesson next week, so I'll further enquire as to his thoughts on the body rotation.  In the mean time, I'll try to get a video of my swing after the pro's instructions...

[bunkerputt]

Originally Posted by nick4501

bunkerputt - Again, thanks for the advice.  The pain I get isn't like a sharp stabbing pain, but rather a dull ache which I only seem to get after the follow through.  It really does feel like I'm arching my back and my left shoulder blade is digging in.

The snap shot that you have taken above worries me.  My weight looks like it's pretty much static, and if anything, I'm leaning onto my front foot before I even start the down swing!  If this is the case, would it not result in the "reverse C" shape by forcing a follow through after my weight and hips are already as far forward as they can go (hope that made sense!)?

Nick,

The "dull ache" is why I said 10-to-1 and not 100-to-1.  BTW, this is a "reverse C" finish:

This occurs because the hips have gone extremely forward while the head has stayed back, long into the follow through.  You don't have any of that going on, and I think your pain is from a different source.  Generally reverse C causes lower back pain, not left shoulder blade pain.

The causes in your case are really pretty simple.  Your shoulder turn is too flat.  This stretches the muscles behind the left shoulder blade more than is comfortable.  From that already stretched position, you sequence incorrectly and swing hard from a poor position because you are trying to get your lost distance back.  The result is that the muscles tear slightly and you get pulls cramps and aches.  Keep at it and it will get really sharp.  You may not feel like you are trying to swing hard, but pretty much every post you've made laments about lack of distance, so I know it's in the back of your mind.

Any time we have our spine going through contortions at speed in our swings, the brain makes the muscles take over so we don't injure our spinal cord, neck, or the other more critical parts of our bodies.

Don't worry about the leaning onto your front foot part.  The weight will go roughly 63/37 at address to 67/43 at the top to 80/20 at impact, so you should still have most of it on your front foot at the top, i.e. generally 60/40 with a 5 percent swing to the back foot due to the dynamics of weight transfer.  Anyway, forget about that right now, go back to what Erik posted and get to this position at the top:

Notice that the legs look powerful and loaded.  You want the feeling that you are loading "down" into your legs.  Just get there, then you can figure out how to unload it into the ball.  Also, give yourself some time to rest the back, take some ibuprofen and get back into it with some very light stretching and motion.

[nick4501]

Went to the driving range again tonight and decided that it's official - my swing is now causing me major pain behind my left shoulder blade.  I could feel it after hitting just 5 balls and it just got worse and worse.  I did, however, get my friend to take two more videos of my swing (in front and down the line), which I will post on Monday.

Thanks again for the great post bunkerputt.  I now know what is meant by the "reverse C", but agree with you - I don't really feel like this is a problem that I have...at least on my follow-through, so I don't know why the pro talked about it.  However, looking at the right picture of Charlie, it made me realise that I could actually be doing the whole reverse C thing on the BACKSWING (and therefore stretching my shoulder muscle).  The right side of Charlie's back looks pretty much straight...pretty sure that's not what mine looks like!

When you say that my shoulder turn is too flat, do you mean that my whole swing plane is too flat?  How can I correct this?

[nick4501]

RIGHT!  Finally got two more videos of my swing with the first lesson's instructions in it (pretty much just changes to posture).  Apologies for the front on video - I know it's not ideal, but this is the best viewing angle my friend could get.  Either way, it should still show up all my problems!

FRONT:

DOWN THE LINE:

As always - any advice will be massively appreciated.

[bunkerputt]

Originally Posted by nick4501

When you say that my shoulder turn is too flat, do you mean that my whole swing plane is too flat?  How can I correct this?

Stand up straight with your arms crossed over your chest like a mummy.  Make a 90 degree turn to the right.  From there, tilt to the left so the left shoulder points towards the ball.  You should feel a lot of stretch in your right side and none n your left.  That's the way the body should move.  You have the complete opposite where instead of your spine tilting to your left, it tilts to your right.  This stretches the left side instead of the right.  Do something more like this:

[nick4501]

Thanks again BP.  After doing what you suggested, I immediately knew that my spine angle was wrong.

Anyway, I've now had 3 lessons and I feel that things are improving.  My stance now looks much better (feet closer together, back straighter, etc), and I've been concentrating on "opening up my arc" and trying to stay on plane by having a steeper shoulder turn.

FRONT :

DOWN THE LINE :

I'm still feeling a bit of pain next to my left shoulder blade, but my pro says that it's because I'm still doing the "reverse C" thing - instead of getting my weight forward on impact, I apparently look like I'm trying to lean back to get under the ball.  He then asked me to try to deliberately aim left and I felt that I was hitting much more consistently (and started to feel the whole body rotation thing).  He said that this should start to get me out of the reverse C problem.

One thing that still worries me after seeing these videos is how much my head moves - but only at the very top of the backswing!  What is causing me to do this?!  It looks ridiculous!

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Nick