Driveway Sticks and Shoulder Pitch

[RubxQub]

So I just watched my Golf Galaxy lesson video (which I believe I'm allowed to share, but won't because I'm not sure), and my instructor is actually dissuading me from tilting in the video.

He draws the very same shoulder lines, and says that I should be targeting a much flatter shoulder plane, and not this pointed towards the ground shoulder plane that I've currently got going on (looks like I could tilt a bit more actually).

...is my instructor off?

[James_Black]

When I try this I either overswing or slice the ball.

I have a slight fade normally.

Can you define what coming OTT means?

[iacas]

Can you define what coming OTT means?

Yes, but this hardly seems like the thread for that...

...is my instructor off?

In my opinion, yes. You want to turn your shoulders in a circle, and that circle is not oriented horizontally. For that to be true, your spine between your shoulders would have to be vertical. We play golf on a tilted plane, not a vertical one (unless you're hitting your ball out of a tree or a tall bush

).

[RubxQub]

In my opinion, yes. You want to turn your shoulders in a circle, and that circle is not oriented horizontally. For that to be true, your spine between your shoulders would have to be vertical. We play golf on a tilted plane, not a vertical one (unless you're hitting your ball out of a tree or a tall bush

Think I should have followed your advice and gone with Steve Sieracki, even if he is a bit out of the way for me.

The S&T; swing seems to fit me much better through my self teachings, the DVD and the book...so I suppose I should have a proper S&T; instructor before someone else tries to unravel everything I've been working on. Bah!

[mvmac]

Think I should have followed your advice and gone with Steve Sieracki, even if he is a bit out of the way for me.

Watch the tournament this week and see how the pros turn their shoulders. A good portion of them turn the shoulders perpendicular to the spine

[colin007]

just an addition to a great drill (thanks Erik!) - i took one of my driveway sticks and taped a laser pointer to the end of it, and then used a rubber band to wrap around the button to turn it on. this way, i praticed the drill inside, with a ball in the address position and a yard stick pointing away from me, and the laser pointed a dot on the floor/yardstick so i could be more precise.

[iacas]

Got this comment from someone named only "USASF9" on the video on YouTube:

HOLY SHIT DUDE!!! With all of the shit you talk on your stupid board I thought you had some amount of game!!! hahahah You should really try and shut that club more on your way back. I can't believe that YOU are telling people what to do in their golf swings!!! hahah Your LEG work is some of the worst I've seen!!! Period. You really should try and straighten that right leg more. Holy crap bro. It really really is sad that people listen to you.

I deleted it there because that's not the place for discussion, but here I have several things to say (none of which have to do with the general childish tone).

1) I play off scratch dude. That's "some amount of game," and I've never claimed to be awesome. 2) Shut club face? Sorry, dude, it's square to the plane . Toe up is wide open. 3) Leg work? First, it's a video about the shoulders. Second, the right knee should lessen its flex . I love criticism. If my thoughts aren't challenged by others, I challenge them myself. But don't be a moron, please, as you only end up looking bad yourself. If USASF9 is a member of this "stupid board" then be a man and participate in the conversation. I like conversation, but I like accountability too, and anonymously sniping without any actual discussion is just childish.

[mvmac]

every board has one. it's unfortunate but obviously his attitude has nothing to do with you.

[iacas]

every board has one. it's unfortunate but obviously his attitude has nothing to do with you.

I don't care if he disagrees with me. I welcome the discussion, in fact. What I don't like is the manner in which he disagreed, when we have plenty of threads on these very topics.

I won't lose any sleep over it. But I wanted to post it.

[boogielicious]

Don't sweat it Eric. Your help is much appreciated by all the "normal" folks on this forum.

Back to topic: I find that as I get fatigued during a round I have more difficulty keeping the shoulder turn. I played a round a few days ago and it was hot and humid (I walked). Around the 15th hole I was really getting tired and I was having difficulty get my shoulder turning in the proper plane and my hands deep. What is the best way to refresh the swing feeling when you are tired? I never lose the weight forward feel, but the shoulder and deep hands seem to get away from me.

[iacas]

Back to topic: I find that as I get fatigued during a round I have more difficulty keeping the shoulder turn. I played a round a few days ago and it was hot and humid (I walked). Around the 15th hole I was really getting tired and I was having difficulty get my shoulder turning in the proper plane and my hands deep. What is the best way to refresh the swing feeling when you are tired? I never lose the weight forward feel, but the shoulder and deep hands seem to get away from me.

No sweating. More amusement.

Are you sure the fatigue is actually causing what you think it's causing? Side tilting isn't an extremely difficult thing - you can do that fairly easily - so I'd be curious if you were actually not tilting enough or whether the fatigue was more in your arms or chest and limited the hand depth more than the side tilting, perhaps...? I can't say I've encountered the problem. I think everyone's swing thoughts get away from them a bit towards the ends of rounds if they're not diligent about reinforcing them constantly throughout the round.

[boogielicious]

That could be what happened. I was getting a bit fuzzy with the heat. I was able to regroup on the last couple of holes by just thinking "deep hands".

[bunkerputt]

What are some measured down-the-line values for the differences in the shoulder pitch between say an 8-iron and a driver?  Just from working with it, I'd say the driver has to be a little flatter, but I don't really have any proof other than what works for me.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by bunkerputt

What are some measured down-the-line values for the differences in the shoulder pitch between say an 8-iron and a driver?  Just from working with it, I'd say the driver has to be a little flatter, but I don't really have any proof other than what works for me.

The differences aren't as much as you think. Golfers - good golfers, anyway - are fairly consistent in their address posture with different clubs. We're going to do more studies on this here soon but I wouldn't look for big changes from driver to wedge - the primary difference and one of the only places where the difference is "large" is in the angle formed between the shaft and the arms (viewed DL), though even that's minimized a little since the arms will hang out away from the body slightly more for a driver than a wedge.

[dak4n6]

Just curious, what does 'deep hands' mean?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by dak4n6

Just curious, what does 'deep hands' mean?

http://thesandtrap.com/t/30325/deep-hands-explained

[dak4n6]

Thanks Erik. I don't normally think about where my hands are during takeaway, only where the clubhead is. My hands just kind of follow the clubhead back and around to the top. For my normal slight draw, I envision a line that goes from the back of the ball on an arc starting maybe 15* - 20* to the inside of down the line, and follow that to a slightly laid off position at the top. I think this gives me somewhat deep hands?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by dak4n6

Thanks Erik. I don't normally think about where my hands are during takeaway, only where the clubhead is. My hands just kind of follow the clubhead back and around to the top. For my normal slight draw, I envision a line that goes from the back of the ball on an arc starting maybe 15* - 20* to the inside of down the line, and follow that to a slightly laid off position at the top. I think this gives me somewhat deep hands?

Feel isn't real. So who knows? Got video?