Creating a deep lag...what should one be "feeling"?

[majorchamp]

It's just plain hard to do.

great quote

Source: Yoda "drive the ball into the ground, not into the air"

[iacas]

The feeling as you start down is to keep your left arm 'high and out there" and the right arm folded.

tm, you're a Golfing Machine guy to some extent, so you know that the accumulators release #4 then #1. That's almost the opposite of "high and out there." I think mc needs to get his arms down sooner. The sooner his arms come down, the further forward they'll be at impact.

From a face-on view, the handle should be more towards the left hip at impact than the right hip. He has them more towards the right hip than they should be, hence, arms down faster, not "keep your left arm high and out there."

regarding the lag being assisted by the hips moving laterally...is a swing thought or "feel" to achieve is when the hips start to shift...focus on the left hip moving UP and out

I'm personally not a big fan of "up and out." Up is fine. Up and forward is okay. But in my experience, most people do the "out" (rotation) just fine. Again, it's not how far, it's how long, continuously they go forward.

and while the left hip is moving "up" also making the left shoulder feel like its raising up, which in turn allows the arms to drop into the slot? So the left pocket of your pants should begin vertically raising.

If it's only going vertically, it's not going forward. But yes, the raising of the belt is important... but somewhat unrelated to pushing the hips forward. Most of the raising of the belt happens from about P6 to P8. If you start raising the belt prematurely, you stop going forward prematurely and start spinning. It's the extension of the left leg and knee that allows you to continue turning, and again, ideally that doesn't begin until about P6 and continues through to P8 or a bit later.

As for dropping into the slot, I'm not the biggest fan. This video gets at the essence of why:

[majorchamp]

From a face-on view, the handle should be more towards the left hip at impact than the right hip. He has them more towards the right hip than they should be, hence, arms down faster, not "keep your left arm high and out there."

Ok, that is a great comment..definitely gives me something to aim for from an impact position standpoint. thanks.

I'm personally not a big fan of "up and out." Up is fine. Up and forward is okay. But in my experience, most people do the "out" (rotation) just fine. Again, it's not how far, it's how long, continuously they go forward.

I guess I should ahve been more clear...I definitely know UP only is a bad thing...when I said out, I actually meant forward. my fault.

In a previous post..you talked about my belt buckle sagging or something...didn't know if "lifting" the belt is what you were referring to in that instance. When I try to recreate the lateral move...the move/feeling I attempt is like putting a separation between my left shoulder and my left hip. I feel like the left side of my body feels the tension between those 2 points as I try and move my hips forward. So its like the left hip moves forward, the left shoulder raises vertically (to a point) hence that tension I feel...now I don't do this in my swing, but just saying when I am practicing driving my hips forward, that is the feeling I get to prevent spinning. what I feel and what you feel are obviously different, but does that sound like a logical / correct sensation to the move I am practicing?

[iacas]

1:45 in, but watch the whole video. Bar none the best video I've seen on "lag" even though it's somewhat indirectly talking about lag.



If you flip, you're throwing. And virtually every pro throws the club a little bit, but they do it a thousand times less than even a mid-handicapper.

[majorchamp]

1:45 in, but watch the whole video. Bar none the best video I've seen on "lag" even though it's somewhat indirectly talking about lag.

Deron showed this to me about a week ago...definitely good video. I need to re-watch.

the whole quote about pressures driving the club...beautiful.

[NI4NI]

I liked watching this vid and this instructor; something about how he presents and relates to the student that helps you learn, and be more at ease. What's the instructor's name (besides Yoda), and where does he teach?

[melchior]

That video explained 20x better than I could what I was going to say. The other day I had (what I thought was) an iffy 9I with hurting wind. My primary swing thought, above all else, was to smash the ball into the ground. Not just hit it, but to full on, 90* impact drive it through the ground. It was an incredible feeling golf swing, and instead of "hit it and hope the wind dies down a bit to let it get there" I way overcooked it, turned my 9I into my 8I and flew the green from the teebox. I was in major trouble but that one swing did exactly what I felt a golf swing should do and the ball flight was amazing. Ended up turning my round around too, but it was all because I wanted to pound the ball through the ground.

[senorchipotle]

what's this whole lag obsession? seems rather silly to me. i'm not too sure what you gain by it, either. if you swing with a good tempo you'll have all the lag you'll need for the swing.

[RC]

To the original poster, here is a thought. Most "good" lag swingers I've watched actually start moving the lower body before the backswing reaches maximum angle -- whether they are long or short backswingers. Watching your swing, the cast idea comes to mind because you club starts moving early, before you have made much headway in shifting left. Even the slow, set at the top guys have a little increase in angle (not decrease) at the start of the downswing. You have a nice swing overall, but if you got this last thing down, it would be even better. Find some slo-mo Hogan videos and watch his lower body move first. That is the secret to lag, but trying to explain it is difficult.

[iacas]

I liked watching this vid and this instructor; something about how he presents and relates to the student that helps you learn, and be more at ease. What's the instructor's name (besides Yoda), and where does he teach?

Lynn Blake. THE pre-eminent Golfing Machine instructor.

what's this whole lag obsession? seems rather silly to me. i'm not too sure what you gain by it, either. if you swing with a good tempo you'll have all the lag you'll need for the swing.

At best, that's incredibly misleading and unhelpful. Good tempo gives you "all the lag you'll need"? No.

[majorchamp]

To the original poster, here is a thought. Most "good" lag swingers I've watched actually start moving the lower body before the backswing reaches maximum angle -- whether they are long or short backswingers. Watching your swing, the cast idea comes to mind because you club starts moving early, before you have made much headway in shifting left. Even the slow, set at the top guys have a little increase in angle (not decrease) at the start of the downswing. You have a nice swing overall, but if you got this last thing down, it would be even better. Find some slo-mo Hogan videos and watch his lower body move first. That is the secret to lag, but trying to explain it is difficult.

Thanks RC, yea its one of those "easier said then done" type of things...though if you check out my swing thread..you will see my drill of trying to bring the butt of the club toward the golf ball at least "helping" with my lag..but your right, I tend to start releasing the club a bit too early.

http://thesandtrap.com/forum/threads...l=1#post528365 I have been working on reallly just trying to swing to the top, and bring the butt of the club down across my body and hinging my wrists even more, then back up...bring it down, etc... really works the wrists and forearms. I have also begun some forearm/wrists exercises to strengthen.

what's this whole lag obsession? seems rather silly to me. i'm not too sure what you gain by it, either. if you swing with a good tempo you'll have all the lag you'll need for the swing.

really? ok swing as slow as you want and get to this position on the downswing

unless your wrists are rubber, that won't happen. If lag was that easy...amateurs all over would have downswings like Tiger and Hogan.

[nevets88]

You call that lag?

*This* is lag.

[majorchamp]

You call that lag?

I will crawl into my hole now...you have won sir.

[alo1984]

MC: You sir with all of your threads and your obsessing have inspired me. I've done pretty well with my Daly-esque over swing and my complete reliance on timing my release to make good contact. But, yesterday I played a round and felt as if I was missing with glancing blows or swinging across the ball rather than hitting through the ball. For a few weeks I've been following your crusade for more lag and am convinced that the positions you are seeking are exactly what I need.

As iacas has been preaching, a lateral hip movement rather than spin will quickly create more lag and almost certainly produce more consistent and solid ball striking. For so long I have worked on hitting down on the ball/compressing the ball and yet still have maintained some amount of flip. I am excited to work on this lateral hip movement as I believe it will help me rid myself of this stinking flip.

[golfro]

a couple months ago...

my driver swing is all jacked up now. :(
this past weekend, i think i was in the fairway maybe 30%...terrible driving lately

[senorchipotle]

MC: You sir with all of your threads and your obsessing have inspired me. I've done pretty well with my Daly-esque over swing and my complete reliance on timing my release to make good contact. But, yesterday I played a round and felt as if I was missing with glancing blows or swinging across the ball rather than hitting through the ball. For a few weeks I've been following your crusade for more lag and am convinced that the positions you are seeking are exactly what I need.

i've found that no matter how perfect everything else in your swing is, the only thing that makes you flip is your right wrist. i'd try and sort that out first. what i like to feel is that my right palm is pushing the ball down into the ground in the direction of my target.

[alomar123]

Who would use those mats? Or is it required for iron shots?

[golfro]

Who would use those mats? Or is it required for iron shots?

i actually have no idea. i've only been to that range once and used grass for irons too. dude behind me seems to like the matts over grass lol