Matt Kuchar's Swing - Discuss

[delav]

Matt Kuchar's swing is featured in the Oct 2010 Golf Digest, and several of his positions, as well as his coaches comments got my attention. I thought it may make a good discussion, as some of what he does isn't very congruent with much of the swing ideologies shared on this board.

At halfway back his hands are fairly deep, but the club is severely inside his hands. At the top he has his hands very deep and low, almost directly behind his right shoulder. As discussed in the driveway sticks thread, his shoulders are turning very flat, creating a plane that seems to extend 7-10' feet beyond the ball.

Additionally, his coach has been working to rid his hips of the lateral move to the target, and encourage more rotation. His coach mentioned that prior to working together, Kuchar would aim left of target and really drive his hips toward the target, essentially blocking the ball to get it online.

Watching his swing (now) head on shows that at impact with the driver, his left hip barely moves toward the target from it's position at address (if at all).







Thoughts?

[Stretch]

I don't think his shoulder pitch is actually as flat as it appears in the second picture, where the camera is at an angle off to the right. Also, in the face-on view, it looks like he's moved his weight forward plenty judging by the way his feet have rolled in and out respectively. He does take his hands back in very deeply before coming back up to the plane at the top. Here's a good look from right behind with an iron.

[delav]

in the face-on view, it looks like he's moved his weight forward plenty judging by the way his feet have rolled in and out respectively.

Take a look at the position at address, and the trees in the background. The shift toward the target at his left hip looks to be less than an inch or two, and he is a tall guy. He is rolling to the outside of his left foot, but he is also bowing his knee quite a bit rather than getting his weight through the ball laterally.

[Gordon McTavish]

His hips appear to have moved closer to the target by the time he reaches the end backswing position.

[delav]

I don't think his shoulder pitch is actually as flat as it appears in the second picture, where the camera is at an angle off to the right. He does take his hands back in very deeply before coming back up to the plane at the top. Here's a good look from right behind with and iron.

Good video there. His hands are a bit higher here, and his shoulder pitch is a bit steeper too, although this is to be expected when swinging an mid-iron versus a driver.

[bwdial]

From the head on driver shots, it looks almost like a reverse pivot. His left hip moves toward the target at the top of his back swing, and then moves back slightly at impact.

Perhaps this is what caused yesterday's trainwreck (I know... 72 is hardly a "trainwreck") that left him in some very awkward positions.

[Stretch]

His hands are a bit higher here, and his shoulder pitch is a bit steeper too, although this is to be expected when swinging an mid-iron versus a driver.

Certainly agree. But I think that he does have to put in a good bit of side tilt with any club because it's just about physically impossible to take your hands in that deep without turning the shoulders "down."

[jamo]

Rather than try to blindly compare those images with what his coach says, I combined them and cropped them (the trees in the background were edited in by GD and thus don't line up) a little to line up the golf ball. I got the image as good as I could make it, but the ball in the last frame had already taken off:



Also I agree with Stretch that the DTL images from GD are off a little. If they were more perfect it would likely show a bit more shoulder pitch.

[Harmonious]

For a really detailed discussion of Kuchar's swing by his coach, Chris O'Connell, check out these from the Plane Truth (Jim Hardy) website:

http://www.planetruthgolf.com/Blog/t...---part-1.aspx

http://www.planetruthgolf.com/Blog/t...---part-2.aspx

[delav]

Jamo - interesting there. Looking at the trees in the background, it looks like the perspective & angle of the camera is different in the first picture versus the second two. I wonder if frames from multiple swings and camera positions were used by Golf Digest.

Just read Jamo's full post. Makes sense, although why would GD edit/add trees?

[uttexas]

I really like his swing from the top of the backswing to impact and follow through. His backswing, imo, goes in too quickly (too much in too early), then it goes up, then he does a little loop to get the club head on the forward swing plane.

[bwdial]

Rather than try to blindly compare those images with what his coach says, I combined them and cropped them (the trees in the background were edited in by GD and thus don't line up) a little to line up the golf ball. I got the image as good as I could make it, but the ball in the last frame had already taken off:

Yep... you're right. It looks like they were using two cameras side by side and using shots from both. WTF is that? Why even put pictures of someone's swing if you're going to do that?

[iacas]

I thought it may make a good discussion, as some of what he does isn't very congruent with much of the swing ideologies shared on this board.

To be fair, a lot of PGA Tour golfers make swings and do things that don't mesh with my ideas about how "best" to hit a golf ball. Phil Mickelson's swing is a wreck in many regards, but he's super-skilled and he pulls it off more often than not. That doesn't mean you'd teach people to swing like Phil Mickelson.

At halfway back his hands are fairly deep, but the club is severely inside his hands.

Severely isn't the right word. The camera's not on a great line, and Golf Digest likes to use wide angle lenses for these shots. But it's mostly the poor camera angle (see the toe line, or his heel line?)... and his clubhead is inside, but not necessarily "severely."

What's that mean? Same as it means for Ryan Moore or Rickie Fowler - he'll have to make an adjustment or a correction at some point. It works for Matt Kuchar, but that doesn't mean it can't be made better, either... (maybe it can't, maybe it can).

As discussed in the driveway sticks thread, his shoulders are turning very flat, creating a plane that seems to extend 7-10' feet beyond the ball.

They're not flat. He's turned his shoulders pretty much in a circle like I personally like.

Additionally, his coach has been working to rid his hips of the lateral move to the target, and encourage more rotation.

Given the photos you posted and in this thread, I wonder if that's not on his backswing... :P

Sean O'Hair thinks he doesn't make a lateral move to the front side. So did Ben Hogan. Ben slid laterally more than almost anyone, and Sean O'Hair moves laterally quite a bit as well.

His coach mentioned that prior to working together, Kuchar would aim left of target and really drive his hips toward the target, essentially blocking the ball to get it online.

FWIW, Kuchar plays a draw, currently, as his stock shot. I have no comment on Matt's "block" swing because we don't have it here. Oh, and to point out that people with strong grips often feel like they're "blocking" the ball to the right. Matt's left hand grip is still pretty strong - his right hand helps to neutralize it some.

I wonder if frames from multiple swings and camera positions were used by Golf Digest.

They probably were. Golf Digest seems to have used a fairly slow shutter speed given the shaft bowing, and even high-speed DSLRs can only shoot 10 to 12 frames per second on the downswing. So I'm fairly certain Matt hit five to ten or more golf balls so they could get all the shots they wanted. That's why these players tend to be seen hitting drivers - they can keep teeing up in the same spot to make it look like a single swing. Or so my friends at Golf Digest tell me...

Makes sense, although why would GD edit/add trees?

Because they like to blend all of the frames together. I've done it on occasion for some swing sequences posted here on the forum.

Yep... you're right. It looks like they were using two cameras side by side and using shots from both. WTF is that? Why even put pictures of someone's swing if you're going to do that?

They do that sometimes too. More than likely though it's one camera and they review the images between swings to see if they got the positions they want (and they always want one near impact). The camera might move slightly while the images are being reviewed.

[delav]

Thanks for the reply Eric. Sometimes it's easy to forget that these guys all have imperfect swing like the rest of us. FWIW, I really do like the position Kuchar is in coming into the ball.

They're not flat. He's turned his shoulders pretty much in a circle like I personally like.

Yep, I agree with you there. I also liked the link that Harmonious shared on the previous page. It was a great discussion of the single-plane swing.

After seeing both, I think the camera setup in the GD article is a bit misleading here and elsewhere. As far as the clubhead position on the takeaway, it's still pretty inside, despite any correction for the camera angle. But, Kuchar does make a good move to avoid laying the club off to compensate.

FWIW, Kuchar plays a draw, currently, as his stock shot. I have no comment on Matt's "block" swing because we don't have it here. Oh, and to point out that people with strong grips often feel like they're "blocking" the ball to the right. Matt's left hand grip is still pretty strong - his right hand helps to neutralize it some.

I believe they've worked to eliminate the "block" swing by making changes to his alignment and hip movement through the ball, as the article mentions.

They probably were. Golf Digest seems to have used a fairly slow shutter speed given the shaft bowing, and even high-speed DSLRs can only shoot 10 to 12 frames per second on the downswing. So I'm fairly certain Matt hit five to ten or more golf balls so they could get all the shots they wanted. That's why these players tend to be seen hitting drivers - they can keep teeing up in the same spot to make it look like a single swing. Or so my friends at Golf Digest tell me...

Makes sense. You'd think they would at least try and piece together the sequence from the same camera and perspective. The moving trees in the background are distracting.

[iacas]

Sometimes it's easy to forget that these guys all have imperfect swing like the rest of us.

Indeed, no pro has a perfect swing.

After seeing both, I think the camera setup in the GD article is a bit misleading here and elsewhere. As far as the clubhead position on the takeaway, it's still pretty inside, despite any correction for the camera angle.

It is inside, I agree. It's just not quite as bad as some we've seen here where the club is practically perpendicular to the target line when the shaft gets horizontal to the ground.

I believe they've worked to eliminate the "block" swing by making changes to his alignment and hip movement through the ball, as the article mentions.

I haven't read it yet, but I'll try to check it out.

Makes sense. You'd think they would at least try and piece together the sequence from the same camera and perspective. The moving trees in the background are distracting.

Most people aren't as anal as you and I might be about details like that. They're just looking for a quick fix, not an in-depth, super-accurate analysis. Heck, 90% of golfers will never take a lesson... Golf Digest is somewhat to blame.

[delav]

Most people aren't as anal as you and I might be about details like that.

Fair enough. If I wasn't trying to look at his lateral slide through the ball against the trees in the background, I'd probably never know.

They're just looking for a quick fix, not an in-depth, super-accurate analysis. Heck, 90% of golfers will never take a lesson... Golf Digest is somewhat to blame.

What can one expect with cover stories like "Hit Every Fairway" "Get RID of Hooks" and "8 Fast Fixes!" etc...

[iacas]

What can one expect with cover stories like "Hit Every Fairway" "Get RID of Hooks" and "8 Fast Fixes!" etc...

Seriously. Besides, everyone knows there are only 7 Fast Fixes. And they don't even tell you which one is the phony one!

Okay, back to topic...

[canadianpro]

It was interesting to see his interview at the Deutsche Bank today ...saying "one plane"....I turn back and turn through as fast as I can

PB