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mvmac

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Mid-Am Qualifier yesterday, this is going to be a tough one to get over.

So I’m trying to take the positives away. Part of my goal was to commit to each shot, pick my start line and hit it solid on that line. And no bitch out swings (what I call it when I get way under and hit the big high push because I’m afraid of hitting it left). Only made one semi-push/guided swing. If anything I wanted to force myself to do the left shoulder crunch/hip tilt even if it felt uncomfortable to prove to myself that it will result in a better outcome than trying to guide it out there. 

And by the way I hit it I proved that’s exactly what I needed to do. Even if I pull it off the tee it’s only a slight pull. Like I said in the other thread, it's the best I've hit in competition since college. Gave myself a lot of great birdie chances on a narrow, wet, longish course. 

Going to have to take an honest look at what I’m doing with the stroke and why it can sometimes break down in these individual competitions. Same thing happened at Shadow Ridge for the SCGA mid-am in May, just missed a bunch of ridiculous short ones. Funny thing my speed control wasn't all that bad.

Obviously missing those short ones isn't happening at my home course when I'm playing with my weekend group, at member/guest tournaments or team competitions (putted great at the Cravens). Other than the first hole I wasn’t even that nervous but I did find it harder to get settled in and commit on the greens. I think the added "nerves"/feeling uncomfortable leads something to break down and I revert to a setup where my head is too far back and the shoulders very tilted. And revert to a stroke tempo where the backswing is too long leading me to add a mini flip. Every miss was left. 

Better putting resolutions:

- I need to practice more with consequences, kind of what Molinari has been doing with his guy. Need to play more games, mini competitions, random practice when I'm on the practice green. Less block practice.

- Mechanics. Similar to what I was doing with the full swing, do the setup correctly even if it feels uncomfortable. And stick to the more "reactive" trigger to start the stroke, what I've been doing since late January, stroke starts when my eyes track back to the ball after my last look at the hole.

 

Mike McLoughlin

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  • 2 weeks later...
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My buddy Mario was in town last weekend with his girlfriend so I was able to get some work done.

With the putting it was my usual stuff, head too far behind the ball, shoulders tilted too much and torso leaning away, weight on the right foot.

This pic is hear is where I feel comfortable, not where I would putt from but probably wasn't that far off. So would make sense why I would miss everything left in my last tournament.

IMG_8583.JPG

And this is where I feel like the ball is off my right foot, weight is too far on my left foot lol

IMG_7609.JPG

Mario also gave me a little kick in the ass that I since putting is the worst part of my game (glaring weakness) that I should probably spend more time on it. He's very much on board with doing more consequence drills. Last week and this week I putt before I hit any balls. Have to make 30, 3ft putts in a row from around the hole in order to go to the range. Yesterday I decided to go to 50. Missed my 46th putt and had to start over and got to 50 on the second round.

Putting:
- Play ball in what feels middle of the stance
- Shoulders feel level
- Weight 50/50
- Eyes down, neck soft to see and track the line
- Keep up the faster pacing.

Pitching:
- Similar to putting. Less shoulder tilt.
- Sternum over or in front of the ball (depending on shot)
- Right shoulder works around more and level. Shirt buttons feel like they translate slightly forward.

Full swing: 
Similar stuff to what I've been doing with some updated tweaks.
- Hips level at 1, torso and hips centered
- Less right foot flare
- Hands working up sooner and straighter back 1-2
- More right side stretch on the backswing
- Left shoulder lowers and feels like it moves around as the belt buckle points down (transition)

Here a review of all that.

 

Mike McLoughlin

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16 hours ago, mvmac said:

My buddy Mario was in town last weekend with his girlfriend so I was able to get some work done.

With the putting it was my usual stuff, head too far behind the ball, shoulders tilted too much and torso leaning away, weight on the right foot.

This pic is hear is where I feel comfortable, not where I would putt from but probably wasn't that far off. So would make sense why I would miss everything left in my last tournament.

IMG_8583.JPG

And this is where I feel like the ball is off my right foot, weight is too far on my left foot lol

IMG_7609.JPG

Mario also gave me a little kick in the ass that I since putting is the worst part of my game (glaring weakness) that I should probably spend more time on it. He's very much on board with doing more consequence drills. Last week and this week I putt before I hit any balls. Have to make 30, 3ft putts in a row from around the hole in order to go to the range. Yesterday I decided to go to 50. Missed my 46th putt and had to start over and got to 50 on the second round.

Putting:
- Play ball in what feels middle of the stance
- Shoulders feel level
- Weight 50/50
- Eyes down, neck soft to see and track the line
- Keep up the faster pacing.

Pitching:
- Similar to putting. Less shoulder tilt.
- Sternum over or in front of the ball (depending on shot)
- Right shoulder works around more and level. Shirt buttons feel like they translate slightly forward.

Full swing: 
Similar stuff to what I've been doing with some updated tweaks.
- Hips level at 1, torso and hips centered
- Less right foot flare
- Hands working up sooner and straighter back 1-2
- More right side stretch on the backswing
- Left shoulder lowers and feels like it moves around as the belt buckle points down (transition)

Here a review of all that.

 

Don't 3 foot putts have a SV of 1? I only do a few of those to get Bead down before a round to check my setup. Is your issue the start line? I only ask because putting is my strength. I wish I had half your long game! :-)

Scott

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1 hour ago, boogielicious said:

Don't 3 foot putts have a SV of 1? I only do a few of those to get Bead down before a round to check my setup. Is your issue the start line? I only ask because putting is my strength. I wish I had half your long game! :-)

They do. But a glaring weakness is a glaring weakness. Imagine if a guy has the yips on putts from inside of four feet or so. (True story down below). You'd definitely want to find a fix for that, because you can turn 67s into 77s in a hurry. SV① and SV④ and those things are "generally speaking." If you have the yips (not saying @mvmac does; he doesn't), your "S" value skyrockets in the SCOR system.

@mvmac is probably working on short putts simply so that a) he can check his start line, b) build up a little confidence, and c) to work on his fundamentals without having to chase down a bunch of 25-foot putts or whatever.

@mvmac and I would say that the mental game is an SV① skill, too, but it can also be a glaring weakness.


True story: In the local PGA (Club Pro) Championship a few years ago at Whispering Woods, I was caddying for Dave. A player in our group who shall remain nameless was playing and he had the yips. He:

  • Double-hit a six-foot putt on the first hole.
  • Took something like 42 putts on the day.
  • Three-putted from inside of four feet four times.
  • Left two two-foot putts short.
  • Shot a 77 that would have been a 67 had @NatalieB (at the time she was about 10 or 11) putted for him.

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12 minutes ago, iacas said:

They do. But a glaring weakness is a glaring weakness. Imagine if a guy has the yips on putts from inside of four feet or so. (True story down below). You'd definitely want to find a fix for that, because you can turn 67s into 77s in a hurry. SV① and SV④ and those things are "generally speaking." If you have the yips (not saying @mvmac does; he doesn't), your "S" value skyrockets in the SCOR system.

@mvmac is probably working on short putts simply so that a) he can check his start line, b) build up a little confidence, and c) to work on his fundamentals without having to chase down a bunch of 25-foot putts or whatever.

@mvmac and I would say that the mental game is an SV① skill, too, but it can also be a glaring weakness.


True story: In the local PGA (Club Pro) Championship a few years ago at Whispering Woods, I was caddying for Dave. A player in our group who shall remain nameless was playing and he had the yips. He:

  • Double-hit a six-foot putt on the first hole.
  • Took something like 42 putts on the day.
  • Three-putted from inside of four feet four times.
  • Left two two-foot putts short.
  • Shot a 77 that would have been a 67 had @NatalieB (at the time she was about 10 or 11) putted for him.

Thanks.

Scott

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35 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

True story: In the local PGA (Club Pro) Championship a few years ago at Whispering Woods, I was caddying for Dave. A player in our group who shall remain nameless was playing and he had the yips. He:

  • Double-hit a six-foot putt on the first hole.
  • Took something like 42 putts on the day.
  • Three-putted from inside of four feet four times.
  • Left two two-foot putts short.
  • Shot a 77 that would have been a 67 had @NatalieB (at the time she was about 10 or 11) putted for him.

That was sadistically pleasing read.. lol!

Vishal S.

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17 hours ago, iacas said:

@mvmac is probably working on short putts simply so that a) he can check his start line, b) build up a little confidence, and c) to work on his fundamentals without having to chase down a bunch of 25-foot putts or whatever.

Exactly.

Basically I want to be clutch from around 3ft and I'm not. 

18 hours ago, boogielicious said:

Is your issue the start line?

Yes. 

17 hours ago, iacas said:

If you have the yips (not saying @mvmac does; he doesn't)

I'm pretty honest in this thread with my game, so I would admit to it but yeah the yips aren't an issue for me. I have a weird tendency at setup to get the eyes too far back and/or dynamically add a little loft through impact (start line issues with short ones and speed control with longer ones).

I feel like I'm a decent putter from about 5 ft-30 ft, make my far share and give a lot of them a good run but struggle when I get inside that distance (or outside). Some days are better than others. Like today and Sunday, no putts missed that I "should" have made and had boring rounds under par each day.

I've liked the claw because I feel like it helps me with consistent hand speed, has greatly reduced my loop and it creates some good momentum/flow on medium length putts. And I started holing a lot of short ones when I first switched late January.

Don't see any yip or hit or potential double hit with these strokes. If anything I can sometimes get the backswing too long and then "tip back" with my head to compensate. Always had that tendency regardless of grip but it is a con of the claw in that it's hard for me to make short strokes since one hand is basically guiding the stroke. Harder to sense the weight/momentum of the head until it gets a certain ways back.

One thing I don't like with these videos is that I look fidgety because I'm trying hard to get things better at setup lol

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
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Maybe the best backswing I've ever made 😁 Really love the way the hands work "up" to 2, how I have more side bend and stretch with my torso and the head is steady. Also like how there is less knee sag 7-10. Few weeks ago the head was starting to drift a bit right going back and started struggling with pushes with the irons and two-way miss with the driver. Was also hitting it shorter.

Working on same stuff as my last post.

This weekend hit some of the longest drives I've hit in a while and backed it up with solid distance wedges. To keep the feels simple, my little "cheat" on the course is just making sure the eyes are down at 1, exaggerating it bit, and that I do my pressure/trigger move (lightening the right heel) to start the motion. Helps me with the right side stretch/more teeter-totter shoulder movement and be dynamic with the transition/downswing.


Getting in some good work with the putter. Just hammering the setup feels and trying to be as diligent with the putting as I am with the rest of my game.

Good job with the eyes.

P1 putting.jpg

Good job with returning the shaft to a similar place as it started. 

P7 putting.jpg

Overall flow with the putter looks decent. Adding a little ulnar to my left wrist at setup to help the clubhead stay lower to the ground on the way back. Putting sucked yesterday (putter head came lose, long story) but Sat/Sun made some solid 15-15ft birdie putts. Missed short putts have been right which I see as an improvement.

 

 

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  • 5 weeks later...
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Wow, been a long time since I've posted on the site, just been busy getting ready for the club championship and traveling for work.

Didn’t win the club championship. For whatever reason I was struggling with dialing in the distance yardages. Gave myself too many 30-35 footers for birdie. So lots of pars, couple birdies, obviously going to make some bogeys.

Drove it awesome, putted really well. Last two rounds I had one hole each day where I made a big number and couldn’t make enough birdies to compensate. Had a triple in the second round and quad on the last round. All due to mistakes around the green, mostly mental/strategy stuff. 

With the quad, I hit a great drive, missed the green a bit short from 78 yards. Hit a chip when I should have putted it, the 7-footer lipped out and I let my frustration of that hole and the previous two rounds of not taking advantage of good drives get the better of me. I marked, went to tap in one-handed and missed, then tried to tap in again and missed a few more times. 

I shot 75, 74 and 72. Finished 2nd but the 75 and 74 were the two highest scores I shot on my course all yeah long. Week before I played three rounds, sort of a pre-tournament and was -6. It’s weird. I’m frustrated but also excited because I see the improvements I've made with my mechanics and mental/strategy part of the game. By mental I'm mostly referring to utilizing more of my "right brain" on the course and getting out of the my "left brain".

With the swing I've been starting to see the hips shift back and stay back, leading to me stalling the hip rotation, causing me to "lean" the torso towards the target at the top and lift my arms. So working on the sequencing of my pressure shift, feeling the "flow" move towards the ball of my right foot as I keep the hands and club in the same place while I do it. Then re-center the hips and turn the ribs back as much as I can. This helps me land the pressure left earlier so I can "push off" the lead side earlier.

Wrist loading from 1-2 is way too narrow but here are some things I like: hands gradually gain depth and lift less at the top. Sweet spot staying “up” going back. Good left bend and rotation, can see my right scap at 4 caddy view. Head is steady after the initial pressure flow. Less knee sag after impact.

mm 4-5.jpgmm 6-7.jpgcaddy 4-5.jpgcaddy 6-7.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...
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Hard work I put into the club championship paid off, just a week or two too late 😛

Four rounds since the club championship has been under par. Shot 70 in a SCGA Four-Ball qualifier, so that was good to finally have a solid round in a medal play event. Will have to get one of those 70's taken out, I posted and I guess the SCGA did as well, I don't remember them posting scores for me in other events.

IMG_8379.PNG

Obviously been on a good run with the swing. Keeping things very simple. Little early flow right, then just re-centering/turning my hips back and around. So basically a bit of lateral early, then around. Almost feels like the left heel lightens early, pressure goes to the ball of the right foot, then gradually moves towards the right heel. Then just allowing the downswing to react to that. I want to have a little bit of a "flexed over" or right lean look to the torso at 4, means my rotation isn't stalling and my head isn't drifting towards the target. Check point for me is to be able to see my right scap at 4 caddy view.

Better with the wrist loading and good depth with the right hip on the backswing. Good body rotation into 6 and at impact.

Putting has been great for me, been really solid with my start lines and speed control. Only had one 3-putt in my last four rounds. Did almost a 180 with my mechanics/feels, will post some strokes soon.

P1.jpgP2.jpgP3.jpgP4.jpgP5.jpgP6.jpgP7.jpg

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How’s the swing speed these days?

Everything else appears on point. 

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
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17 hours ago, iacas said:

How’s the swing speed these days?

Everything else appears on point. 

Thanks.

Haven't measured it in a while but based on my distances lately, it's been good. I'd guess it's around 106-107 on the course, here's from the last time I was doing speed practice on the Mevo a month ago. Speed practice is basically taking 8-10 balls and trying to swing as fast as I can with a driver. Haven't been keeping up with my Super Speed training aids, other than making a few swings for warming up.

Screen Shot 2018-10-16 at 10.32.30 PM.pngScreen Shot 2018-10-16 at 10.32.49 PM.pngScreen Shot 2018-10-16 at 10.33.53 PM.png

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Made some big changes to my putting just over a month ago. Had been going claw since late January and for the most part it was good except in competition. The stroke just broke down and I was having a hard time making short putts. Then some of the bad putting from a tournament in July started leaking into my regular rounds.

Always noticed that I made a lot of putts right handed without having to "think" about much. Started experimenting with the same feels but with two hands on the club. Decided to go with left hand low because it gets my shoulder level (tend to get too far the other way if you look at previous posts) and it also makes my right hand more dominant (which helps support the one-handed feels). So basically the complete opposite of what I was doing with the claw 😂 I also putted left-hand low in college.

What I like with this stroke is that it feels more simple and it's easier to create speed, less work. When looking at it compared to strokes from a couple months ago it just looks cleaner. I'm less fidgety over the ball, the putter is "swinging" with the handle not translating much and there is less recoil in the followthrough.

In the last few weeks I've had two good putting tournaments in a row and last two weeks have been really solid on the greens. Most importantly is if I do miss a makable putt I don't go into panic mode, the change in mechanics has me believing I have a good stroke, kind of regardless of the outcome.

 

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6 hours ago, mvmac said:

Made some big changes to my putting just over a month ago. Had been going claw since late January and for the most part it was good except in competition. The stroke just broke down and I was having a hard time making short putts. Then some of the bad putting from a tournament in July started leaking into my regular rounds.

Always noticed that I made a lot of putts right handed without having to "think" about much. Started experimenting with the same feels but with two hands on the club. Decided to go with left hand low because it gets my shoulder level (tend to get too far the other way if you look at previous posts) and it also makes my right hand more dominant (which helps support the one-handed feels). So basically the complete opposite of what I was doing with the claw 😂 I also putted left-hand low in college.

What I like with this stroke is that it feels more simple and it's easier to create speed, less work. When looking at it compared to strokes from a couple months ago it just looks cleaner. I'm less fidgety over the ball, the putter is "swinging" with the handle not translating much and there is less recoil in the followthrough.

In the last few weeks I've had two good putting tournaments in a row and last two weeks have been really solid on the greens. Most importantly is if I do miss a makable putt I don't go into panic mode, the change in mechanics has me believing I have a good stroke, kind of regardless of the outcome.

 

Interesting. Thanks for posting. Were your misses left, right?

For me, it is the exact opposite. I putt my best when the right hand just goes along for the ride. My misses are usually just short. My correction is to have a firmer grip with my left hand, which helps the distance control. I putt with the basic Utley grip. IIRC, I posted a video to Evolvr or here a few years back and you reviewed it and had me make a couple of tweaks at set up. Thanks BTW.

On 10/21/2018 at 12:47 AM, Slim_Pivot said:

Stealing with my eyes for this drill

Mike does a great job showing us how to practice. Learning how to practice is harder than it seems.

Scott

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16 hours ago, boogielicious said:

Interesting. Thanks for posting. Were your misses left, right?

Left.

Mike McLoughlin

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On ‎10‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 1:22 AM, mvmac said:

Always noticed that I made a lot of putts right handed without having to "think" about much. Started experimenting with the same feels but with two hands on the club. Decided to go with left hand low because it gets my shoulder level (tend to get too far the other way if you look at previous posts) and it also makes my right hand more dominant (which helps support the one-handed feels). So basically the complete opposite of what I was doing with the claw 😂 I also putted left-hand low in college.

Do you think when you were right hand low that it was causing alignment issues? I wonder if right hand low can cause people to aim right.

 

On ‎10‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 1:22 AM, mvmac said:

What I like with this stroke is that it feels more simple and it's easier to create speed, less work. When looking at it compared to strokes from a couple months ago it just looks cleaner. I'm less fidgety over the ball, the putter is "swinging" with the handle not translating much and there is less recoil in the followthrough.

In the last few weeks I've had two good putting tournaments in a row and last two weeks have been really solid on the greens. Most importantly is if I do miss a makable putt I don't go into panic mode, the change in mechanics has me believing I have a good stroke, kind of regardless of the outcome.

Good job!

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
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    • Day 83: Did a very cold range session. Worked my priority piece drill and filmed a bit. Then went to the putting green and filmed as well.
    • At $25… And $5 for all bets, I'd do it like this… And we'll just assume that we have 22 with @dennyjones just adding to skins if he can play. 22 players is 11 teams… so… Skins $110/(# of skins) [$110 = 22 * $5] Nassau (Teams) $110 * 3 (FBT) but divided up this way: $20 / $20 / $70 $10 / $10 / $60 -- / -- / $50 -- / -- / $40 -- / -- / $30 -- / -- / $20 CTP $22 each. Or $23 if @dennyjones is in. That's just off the top of my head. Feel free to make changes, offer suggestions, etc. I tried to distribute $330 fairly. If you win the front or the back, it seems likely you might win the overall. But even if you sweep, that's $110, which is 1/3 of the pot, which kinda feels fair, too. Maybe?
    • Yes.  We did best points net two- man teams, but only overall IIRC at Beaver Creek. 80% handicap. And top three individual nets got a little something.  Yes, that's it. The three individual competitions - front, back and overall are great for big groups.  The $25 set up sounds like a winner as long as no one has a strong aversion to it. 
    • Day 4: Did my usual slow motion swings. Still working on being lateral with the hips and not letting my hips come towards the ball or get to far behind me.    Also started to work on some putting. Just swinging from coin to coin. New concept as I always tried to accelerate through the putt. Probably why I sucked at lag putting. 
    • You could take it a step farther and… write it down, and then tape it to your shaft beneath your grip. Like… this: Chapter 7, Page 37.

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