Breaking 75 !

[Gerald]

I am struggling to get these last few strokes off ......

Stats over the last 20 rounds :

Fairways hit : 74%
GIR : 46%
Scrambling : 45%
Putts per hole : 1.69
Putts per GIR : 1.92
Par-scores Par 3's : 3.1
Par-scores Par 4's : 4.4
Par-scores Par 5's : 5.3

Birdies : 5%
Pars : 66%
Bogeys : 26%
2+ Bogeys : 4%

Average score : 77.2

I think I need to improve long approach shots (180 yds +), I am pleased with the scrambling (but maybe needs to be better ?) ...... My putting is reasonable at 30.5 per round and would only improve if I could get more long approaches near the hole.....

But maybe you have some great tips for me ..... Please advise !

[James_Black]

gir needs to improve.

your par 5 scores aren't great either.
your par 3 ones are brilliant.

it's all about ballstriking at that stage and minimizing bogeys.

how long are your par 5's? my course has pretty short ones. Driver, hybrid, PW for me.

[Gerald]

I tossed out all hybrids, never liked these going left weapons, it is "between the ears" and my 3 wood isn't great from the Fairway either, I am more of an iron man........ So although our par 5's aren't the longest (562, 508, 541 and 495 yds.) I can't reach them in two.

Problems are that most par 4's are longggg (407, 470, 337, 427, 410, 381, 431, 437, 427 and 429 yds.)

I am very pleased with my par 3's (219, 165, 168 and 205 yds.) results.

At some holes there are longggg carries over water, so in all it is not the easiest course to get a really low handicap and above that it is a woods course, about half the holes are quite narrow so at more holes than on most courses you will need a 3 Wood of the tee or being lethally accurate with the driver.

[James_Black]

sounds like a hybrid would really help.

Did you toss out the mizuno hybrid?
You could maybe look at the VR hybrids they're fade biased.
My tour launch is meant to be fade biased but I still get a draw with it.

Enter some open singles at other courses, you'd do pretty well if you can play off 5 at your course.

[luckyluke699]

Coming from a much higher handicapper so I'm definitely aware you're much better than I but anyway here's my 2 cents...

Fairways hit % is really excellent and your putting is good. Scrambling isn't too bad either (but there's room for improvement). That said par 4 and 5 scores are disproportionately higher than your par 3s (which are really impressively good! ).

A comparison with the stats for a local uk mini tour pro highlight the following...

Par -3- -4- -5-
You 3.1 4.4 5.3
Pro 3.1 3.9 4.5
Dif -0- +0.5 +0.8

so your par 3 performance is the same as a local Pro, who has won about £25,000 on the local euro pro mini tour this year, nice job!!

(UK tier 3 'euro pro' tour, players stats link for info: http://europro.bluegolf.com/bluegolf...aunt/stat.htm? )

Given your good driving %, good putting %, good par 3 performance and you mentioning your good iron play, I would guess the problem is as follows...

1) You drive shorter than other players of your calibre?
2) You don't play a hybrid/recovery and thus as long a second shot on par 5s as you could either
3) Both the above mean your "approach" shots on par 4s and par 5s is thus often quite far out, making it difficult to hit GIR on par 4s and 5s and possibly even to scramble from slightly further distances when you miss GIR as you may have fallen short on the longest holes?

Normally you see pros having the lower scores (proportionately to par) on the longest holes, not shortest.

Apologies in advance if I am wrong (I have been quite presumptuous here!! ). It would be really helpful if you could hint whether you feel you hit your GIRs on certain length holes, or if you are scrambling certain types of holes?

Hopefully this helps, would be good to know if my guesses are correct? Just know you're a far better golfer than I either way!!

[Jaywun]

I finally played with a true +handicap golfer the other day. While his length was impressive. The REAL impressive part was that he was only off the apron once in regulation. Including every par 5 in 2. The nicest round I've ever seen. 6 under on a fairly easy Muni course in San Jose. Heres the awesome part. He's self taught, no formal lessons. Strong grip, short backswing very fast downswing. His secret: never listen to anyone that won't help you get better. Complete self belief. "You can spend all the money you want, bottom line-you'll only be as good as you think you are!" very interesting

[Harmonious]

Couple of things stand out to me. You are playing a course at over 7000 yards, if I added your hole yardages correctly. You can't reach any of the par 5s in two, even the 495 yarder, which indicates you are not the longest of hitters, yet you do not want to use hybrids which would help you reach more par 4s.

As I see it, you've got a couple of options. 1) Learn how to hit hybrids well enough so that you can reach the longest of the par 4s. 2) Improve your scrambling percentage. 45% is OK, but not good enough if you miss 10 greens and want to shoot par golf. You are leaving too many birdies out there on the par 5's. 3) Unfortunately, you may have to accept the reality that you are playing your course at a yardage that will never allow you to score much better than you are currently.

By the way, I'm surprised that your average score is 77.2 on a course that should have a rating of at least 73, given its length, yet your handicap is 4.9. Seems your handicap should be down in the 1-2 range if you average 77.

[delav]

I'm encouraged by your enthusiasm and objective look at improving your game.

Good input by many here, especially harmonious above. Gerald, what are your distance, and what is the slope/rating and yardage of the tees you play?

It seems to me that hitting GIRs should be high on that list, however things get tricky with long par 4's (as you mentioned earlier). What holes particularly do you struggle most on? What club are you hitting at the 180 yard mark that you'd like to hit closer?

The solution could be finding a bit of distance, improving your GIR putting, or adding technology (yardage) to the bag that helps you improve your chances of scoring on the longer holes.

[joepro23]

Agree with a lot of the posts above. GIR and par 5 scoring are your two big concerns.

Look at your course management. If you're not the longest hitter, play to your strength on the par 5s and leave a good wedge yardage and angle so you can knock down some flags. It often takes me 2-4 birdies to break 75. If you are coming in with long approaches, play to the safe side of the green and get the GIR at least. 10 or 11 GIRs per round and you're bound to shoot sub-75 with decent putting. You are close at 8 GIRs. Picking up some yardage is good, but don't sacrifice too much accuracy.

Looks like you are playing a pretty long course (approx 7000?). Are there shorter tees, and if so, do you score better from those? Not saying to give up on the long tees, but I was just thinking it could solely be a distance issue here.

[tim31x]

you need to start hitting more greens. Try to focus on shooting for the middle of greens versus at the pin and let your flat stick do a little talking. To help your par 5's out put an emphasis on good decision making and leaving yourself a scorable 3rd shot should your 2nd miss. Look to miss in the correct part of course so you don't short side yourself or leave awkward wedge shots.

[mcgriff]

Only happens to me by accident...going below 75 that is. On those particular days it is ALWAYS the putter that leads the charge. Last round I shot a 76 with 33 putts. Not all that great. But, I one putted the last 3 greens. All of em were over 20 feet and 2 for birdies. Days like that make me wonder what would have happened if I would have just made a couple 8 footers. Live by the blade, die by the blade

[Gerald]

Thanks guys, you all hit some nails !!!!

you need to start hitting more greens. Try to focus on shooting for the middle of greens versus at the pin and let your flat stick do a little talking. To help your par 5's out put an emphasis on good decision making and leaving yourself a scorable 3rd shot should your 2nd miss. Look to miss in the correct part of course so you don't short side yourself or leave awkward wedge shots.

Yepp I am working on planning the location for the 3rd shot, but in golf most shots end a little off the thought out routing.....

Fairways hit % is really excellent and your putting is good. Scrambling isn't too bad either (but there's room for improvement). That said par 4 and 5 scores are

Well you are kindaright here, most low cappers I play with are way longer off the tee, my driving average is about 250-260, while most of the other lowcappers average about 280-300, which means I need more long irons to the green, while these guys will hit mid to even short irons to the green. If I have a poor long iron ...... I end up with 20-30 yds. scrambling and we all know it is so easy to make 3 shots from that distances..... some day's my scrambling is about 65%, but there are also days it is only 25%.

I much lowered my hc by improving scrambling ..... I know I should gain length, but on the other hand, my drives are seldom of the fairway and if they are they are in the first cut mostly.

Couple of things stand out to me. You are playing a course at over 7000 yards, if I added your hole yardages correctly. You can't reach any of the par 5s in two, even the 495 yarder, which indicates you are not the longest of hitters, yet you do not want to use hybrids which would help you reach more par 4s.

You are right about the course 7050 yds, SR 132, CR 73.5

Well it has also something to do with the handicap system being different from the USA ...... if I play 3 strokes better than my hc ..... my exact hc. is lowered 0.6 points, if I play above 0.1 is added and it is a continueing process, so if you play let's say 4 rounds above .... it is +0.4 then you play the 5th round 2 under you are back to where you came from. I had 3 rounds of 74 this season, all included a few nice birdies, but I mostly have to work hard to make my pars, I don't mind working hard, but it is very difficult to work hard for 18 holes. I am not the longest out there, and I too often need a long iron second shot at the par 4's ...... not reaching the 495 yds par 5 has a lot to do with this hole being very narrow at about 230-240 from the tee - at this point there is a huge fairway bunker on the right and this is also the point where it doglegs about 40 degrees to the right ..... so you have to place the drive in the about 15 yds wide grass on the left of that right hand bunker, cutting off the corner ...... no way 80 ft. high wood in the right hand corner. I have to hit a 3 wood from the tee, placing it and leaves me about 250 to the center of the green, which is very well protected (stroke index 13)....... so it not the longest par 5 but I am happy with a par at this hole. I have just added the MP Fli-Hi 18* ..... will be about 200-210 yds. This winter I need to work on the 3 wood off the fairway, I really need it ! I am a self taught golfer, but I am taking 20 lessons this winter and we will be working on 20-30 yds plus on the driver, which means more mid irons to the green.

I'm encouraged by your enthusiasm and objective look at improving your game.

Yepp yardage is my main problem ..... 180 yds ..... is in between a 5i and 4i for me depending on the wind, I know some of the guys are using only a #6 iron for 180 yds ...... I used to hit a #5 iron about 190 yds 25 yrs ago, but not anymore.

Main problems are all the demanding par 4's at our course ..... too damn long to reach in two, so I have to scramble a lot. I need more distance off the tee and when I reach GIR now, it is not seldom with a 50-70 ft. first putt ....... most having to do with a "poor" driving distance ...... My best drives are DEAD straight, we will be working on a baby draw this winter. My irons are short too, and it is mostly bc I prefer to fade slightly for a better hold ......

Agree with a lot of the posts above. GIR and par 5 scoring are your two big concerns.

If I play the shorter tees at about 6750 yds, SR 133, CR 71.5 I sure reach more greens in regulation. The rounds I shot below 75 this year all included some nice birdies and on days I hit some super teeshots in the 270-290 yds range ...... but mostly it is at about only 240-250 yds.

[Harmonious]

I am a self taught golfer, but I am taking 20 lessons this winter and we will be working on 20-30 yds plus on the driver, which means more mid irons to the green.

I think you are wise to work on your driver and your short game. For us "short" hitters (I'm around 250) it is very difficult to score well on long courses unless we can get up and down a lot. And even if you improve your 180-200 yard approaches, you will rarely hit it close to the pin, and will still miss many greens. Here's a link to PGA stats for 175-200 yard approaches:

http://www.pgatour.com/r/stats/info/?337 As you can see, even the best in the world do not hit it inside 30', on average. Some even average over 40 ' away. So you will have to improve your up-and-down percentage to drop your score. Chances are, you will not magically gain 20 yards, even with lots of lessons. Sad, but true. Good luck. You are not that far away!

[sean_miller]

I think you are wise to work on your driver and your short game. For us "short" hitters (I'm around 250) it is very difficult to score well on long courses unless we can get up and down a lot. And even if you improve your 180-200 yard approaches, you will rarely hit it close to the pin, and will still miss many greens. Here's a link to PGA stats for 175-200 yard approaches:

Even for longer hitters playing at altitude, the 200 yard approach shot is usually followed by one of the following: a long putt, a chip, or a pitch. His putting stats are stellar, and his course is long, so working on driver, long irons or hybrids, and chipping would be a great way to spend the winter.

[Leftygolfer]

IMO I think you are playing some really good golf with an average of 77 on a long pretty tough course. To get better, I think you could get up and in more than 50% of the time. I think improving that would be easier than hitting more greens. 50% is pretty darn good, most scratch players don't do much better than that on a course that tough. A game I like to use to practice this is what I call par two golf. All I do is take 3 balls, drop them around the green trying to get up and in from various locations. It works on short putts, and obviously pitching and chipping. I keep score, line up my putts, all that jazz. The one side effect from the game that is a huge positive is that I can be more agressive with my longer putts since I have so much confidence inside of 4 feet. I don't fear a 3 footer coming back one bit and I feel like I hole more out. My best score for 18 is 7 over and worst is 12 over. To me this has been a real help in my pitching ability and making practicing not feel like practice.

[Gerald]

About two months ago I practised a lot with what you just called par 2 golf, and after that at one evening I met an American that was practising a lot at our course and we played a short round of 12 holes, had to stop because it was to dark ..... anyway wherever I missed the green scrambling was 100% and I was one under after 12 holes ...... I sort of focussed more on the long irons and the short game, well kinda lost that a bit.

This afternoon I had a double lesson and I only took the 3W with me, so we focussed the entire lesson on improving swing and ball flight ...... I had lots of trouble with a push or even a push-slice lately with my 3W and 5W, which I tried to correct with more inside out and still more inside out ...... and things went wrong more, more and more ...... our Pro played on the LPGA (yes it is a girl ..... ) ...... within 15 minutes I was hitting it straight and I even had a few baby draws .... distances up to about 210 yds .... but we didn't focus on distance..... solution was an moderate angled backswing, not sooooo much inside and a slightly in side out swing with a better release...... so simple ..... that I didn't found that on my own ????

After the lesson I got the task to practice the new 3W swing at least 50 balls daily this week, which isn't a problem as the range is only a 10 minute drive for me, next week we will go on with the 3W as she told me that I need to be able to hit a low and high draw with it, before we will start working on my driver.

[andef]

I would think, as others have said, that your GIR percentage is a little on the low side. I have the same exact handicap as you (assuming it hasn't changed) and hit around 55% of GIR. I struggle with putting, averaging around 33 putts per round, but that doesn't seem to be something you struggle with. Our par 4s average 370 yards and I'd assume that is a decent average distance with the longest one at 400 yards. However, I understand it can be quite difficult with holes up to 470 yards to hit the green in two. It seems that your longer clubs can be a great weapon for your game so my suggestion would be to work on FWs and hybrids like you've started doing. In addition, improving your scrambling % always leads to lower scores so working on that would help you lower your scores further.
What's the par of your course?

[Gerald]

What's the par of your course?

Back tees for cat. I and II (0.0 - 11.5 hc) Par 72, 7050 yds (6357 meter), SR 132, CR 73.2

Medal tees for higher hc. Par 72, 6752 yds (6077 meter), SR 133, CR 71.5 This winter some holes will get new back tees (even longerrrrrr) and a few months ago the course was measured by the national committee, the outcome was the female single hc. would get an extra stroke. Spring next year the new backtees will be measured and expected CR will go to even 73.8 ..... pfewww.