Holes cut into steep slopes

[Ignorant]

Rules of golf say the greenskeepers should cut cups on a place that's relatively flat for a couple of feet in either direction. One greenskeeper I know said that the largest green on his course had only a few legitimate pin placement areas, because so much of the green had up and down roll.

There is nothing in the Rules of Golf taking stand on the location of the hole except it has to be on the green. There are recommendations (by USGA) for the placement of a hole and they

should be followed in order to make playing not just fun but also reasonable. If a hole has been cut in an unreasonable place described by OP it is a question of uneducated staff. In such a case strong feedback towards eg. Managing Director is more than encouraged. It is of noboby’s interest to have holes placed in unplayable spots.

[Ignorant]

also quik question, what is the minimum distance from the edge of the green they can place the pin? i wanna say 4 ft but im not sure..... thanks

There is a publication by USGA called ‘How to conduct a competition’ and on pages 37-39 there are the recommendations of hole locations. Amongst other things it is said that ‘… it is recommended that generally the hole be located at least four paces from any edge of the putting green.’

Again, it is a recommendation but in the absence of very good reasons it should IMO strictly be obeyed.

[Yanks Fan]

Okay, so apparently this is something that makes all golfers frustrated and angry, and not just me. I've played this course several times before (it's the one closest to my house), and this is the first time the pins have been set unfairly. If it happens again, I'll talk to them about how they're going to lose customers if they keep doing that.

What course was it since you're local? I'm kind of curious.

[Open-Faced Club Sandwedge]

What course was it since you're local? I'm kind of curious.

Prince William. Where do you play?

-Andrew

[Fat Slice]

Stay below the hole on your approach, it's about the best you can do in those cases.

[Open-Faced Club Sandwedge]

Stay below the hole on your approach, it's about the best you can do in those cases.

If there was any "stay below the hole" in my approaches, I'd be a WAY lower handicap than 26. I just concentrate on pointing toward the green, choosing the right club, and putting a good swing on the ball. What part of the green the ball hits when I do hit the ball well, is just chance as far as I'm concerned. Once I can hit the ball well nearly every time, my standards will get higher.

-Andrew

[Fat Slice]

You really don't have to be that good to try and manage the course a little. If the hole slopes left to right, aim right a little. If it slopes back to front, choke up a little, etc. Even if you aren't deadly accurate you can always improve your chances.

[walk18]

If there was any "stay below the hole" in my approaches, I'd be a WAY lower handicap than 26. I just concentrate on pointing toward the green, choosing the right club, and putting a good swing on the ball. What part of the green the ball hits when I do hit the ball well, is just chance as far as I'm concerned. Once I can hit the ball well nearly every time, my standards will get higher.

Even if you're below the hole you can have your putt roll all the way back from 10 ft on those bad hole locations, now that's frustrating.

[Yanks Fan]

Prince William. Where do you play?

Ahh good old Prince William. I've played it a handful of times back in '08 and '09 and it was a dog track but I've heard their new superintendent made that course pretty nice this summer. I never got out to play it though. I play mostly at Bristow Manor about 5 minutes from Prince William.

[Open-Faced Club Sandwedge]

Ahh good old Prince William. I've played it a handful of times back in '08 and '09 and it was a dog track but I've heard their new superintendent made that course pretty nice this summer. I never got out to play it though. I play mostly at Bristow Manor about 5 minutes from Prince William.

Prince William has improved.

Is Bristow Manor nice? I live about halfway between Bristow Manor and Prince William, so I may have to check it out. -Andrew

[MSchott]

There is nothing in the Rules of Golf taking stand on the location of the hole except it has to be on the green. There are recommendations (by USGA) for the placement of a hole and they

Well said. Often times the greenskeeper or assistant does not understand how to set a pin position. If this problem persists tell management. These sort of pin positions are unfair and IMO not in the spirit of the game. even at Oakmont and Augusta good putts don't roll back to a players feet.

[Stretch]

Even at Oakmont and Augusta good putts don't roll back to a players feet.

Indeed. They roll on through into the gallery instead.

[skinsscalper]

Rules of golf say the greenskeepers should cut cups on a place that's relatively flat for a couple of feet in either direction. One greenskeeper I know said that the largest green on his course had only a few legitimate pin placement areas, because so much of the green had up and down roll.

The above quote is correct.

The practice spelled out by the OP is completely unacceptable if the Superintendent has a modicum of professionalism. First of all, it's unfair. Second of all, it completely slows down the pace of play. If the track you play at is a daily fee course, that type of practice will cost the club $100.00's of dollars a day due to the backed up tee times. When walk ons pull up to the club and find out there's an hour wait to even get on, many will just get back in their cars and look elsewhere.

i play a course here in Shanghai called Sun Island Golf Club. these guys are real a$$ holes when it comes to pin locations, I mean you wouldnt believe these pin locations, its like Sunday pin location in a major tournament, everyday of the week! .............

The standard that we use at our course is a minimum of a flagstick away from the edge. I'm not even really comfortable with that and instruct our crew to use that particular standard only when it's absolutely necessary (damage to the green, etc.).

There is nothing in the Rules of Golf taking stand on the location of the hole except it has to be on the green. There are recommendations (by USGA) for the placement of a hole and they

The above quote is true. Sometimes even that standard isn't enough. Often times our greens stimp out at 12+. That is VERY, VERY fast. Often you'll actually find a hole location that IS flat for a good 5-8 feet around it. Unfortunately, the surrounding terrain makes it near impossible to stop the ball within three feet of the cup (our standard). Our set up crew is trained to roll a ball to the cup (or in some instances simply drop a ball at the top of a slope close to the hole). If they can't get a ball to stop within three feet of the hole, then a new pin placement needs to be selected.

Well said. Often times the greenskeeper or assistant does not understand how to set a pin position. If this problem persists tell management. These sort of pin positions are unfair and IMO not in the spirit of the game. even at Oakmont and Augusta good putts don't roll back to a players feet.

This, also, is completely unacceptable. Any Assistant worth his salt knows damn well that poor pin placement is bad business for the ENTIRE operation. If a Super (or his assistant) sends out a guy that continually sets poor placements, then he's a fool, and the course setter, himself, is NO greenskeeper. It's becoming all too common that people are sent out to do jobs that they don't understand on the golf course and they certainly don't understand the impact that it has on their clientele. It's a result of poor training and a failure that lands squarely on the head of the Superintendant and his assistant. That is THEIR JOB. When I finally land my own Superintendent's gig, I won't even consider a guy that doesn't actually play golf to go out and set up my course. No way. No how. One thing that's been lost in the mad golf rush of the last 10-15 years is that cutting cups was a duty that was ONLY performed by the Superintendent. It was that important and that revered. It was that way for years. It's an important assignment that affects many aspects of the course itself. From pace of play to customer satisfaction. Nobody has fond memories of the day that they shot 112 and putted 48 times. It reflects poorly on your club. Our crew is instructed to set the easiest pins possible on a daily basis. Tournament setups are for just that. TOURNAMENTS. And even at that rate, there HAS to be a good level of fairness. You want to tuck a pin behind a bunker? Fine, just don't tuck it behind a bunker on a 25degree angled slope. You have to give the palyers a REASONABLE chance to score.

Sorry about the rant, it's just one of those things that irks the sh!t out of me. Oh, hi, BTW. My name is Randy. I'm an Assistant Superintendent at a Golf Club in AZ. First time poster (I have a tendency to jump right in *shrugs*).

[Ignorant]

Our set up crew is trained to roll a ball to the cup (or in some instances simply drop a ball at the top of a slope close to the hole). If they can't get a ball to stop within three feet of the hole, then a new pin placement needs to be selected.

So easy to do and on too many courses neglected. Why on earth?

Good post, skinsscalper.

[Zeph]

I hate it when they do this. Hard pin positions are fine, but please don't put the hole on the middle of the steepest slope of the green. It's stupid that you have a downhill putt where you can't possibly stop the ball around the hole without hitting it.

[jamo]

I hate when you have a slightly downhill (or uphill, now that I think of it, it really doesn't matter) putt and right on the other side of the hole there is a huge drop off. Or if the hole is cut barely into the huge drop off.

The hardest hole that I have ever seen was in a high school golf match against out rivals, we were playing the back nine of our home course. I was playing at the #2 seed, so the group in front of me was the #1 and #5. In front of me both of the other team's players hit their ball onto the green in regulation. One made a 5, and the other made a 9. I kid you not. The #1 player took 4 putts, and the #5 player took 8 putts. This was not a weak team either, they went on to finish in the top few in the state. The green was sloped severely back to front, and the pin was way at the top. For some reason the grass was really short and just running really fast. They measured it after and it came out 14 on the stimp. Crazy.

From the front, if you went past the hole the ball would roll back, and if you went short of the hole the ball would roll back. I went over the green, then hit an almost perfect chip that had no speed yet just missed the cup and went all the way to the front of the green. I made a 5, and even then I felt lucky.

It wasn't even that it was in an unfair spot, the green was just too sloped and too fast to putt on reasonably.

[Yanks Fan]

Prince William has improved.

Very nice course that not many people in the area know much about. Definitly give it a look and play it. It's wide open everyday right now. Don't let the brown fairways scare you off when you see it. The Zoysia fairways are just turning dormant with the winter coming in but they are great to play on.