Forged vs Casted Cavity back iron weight

[ronaldkuntoro]

Are forged cavity back irons heavier than casted cavity back irons?

The reason I asked this because I have a Mizuno forged cavity back irons and the heads feel heavy.  At least, heavier than casted cavity back iron I had in the past.

[max power]

There are a hundred reasons why one head weighs more or less than another.  The heads are designed to be a certain weight by the manufacturer.  A forged cavity back and a cast cavity back can be designed to weigh the same, or not.

  ronaldkuntoro said:

Originally Posted by ronaldkuntoro

Are forged cavity back irons heavier than casted cavity back irons?

The reason I asked this because I have a Mizuno forged cavity back irons and the heads feel heavy.  At least, heavier than casted cavity back iron I had in the past.

[ronaldkuntoro]

  max power said:

Originally Posted by max power

There are a hundred reasons why one head weighs more or less than another.  The heads are designed to be a certain weight by the manufacturer.  A forged cavity back and a cast cavity back can be designed to weigh the same, or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronaldkuntoro

Are forged cavity back irons heavier than casted cavity back irons?

The reason I asked this because I have a Mizuno forged cavity back irons and the heads feel heavy.  At least, heavier than casted cavity back iron I had in the past.

Forged irons are just one big chunky metal and Casted irons are glued together with lots of cavity.   That's why I'm thinking forged iron feels heavier than casted irons.

Anyone with similar experience?

[iacas]

  ronaldkuntoro said:

Originally Posted by ronaldkuntoro

Forged irons are just one big chunky metal and Casted irons are glued together with lots of cavity.   That's why I'm thinking forged iron feels heavier than casted irons.

Anyone with similar experience?

That doesn't even make sense. They're "glued together"? You can make a one-piece cast iron, you know. Most of them are. Molten metal poured into a mold. Done. Where's the "gluing"?

[max power]

You asked about a forged cavity back vs. a cast cavity back, not a forged blade vs. a cast cavity back.  A cast cavity back is not "glued together," something can be glued into the back of any forged or cast cavity back.  Take a look at Mizuno MX-200s, MX-300s, JPX 800, etc.

  ronaldkuntoro said:

Originally Posted by ronaldkuntoro

Quote:

Originally Posted by max power

There are a hundred reasons why one head weighs more or less than another.  The heads are designed to be a certain weight by the manufacturer.  A forged cavity back and a cast cavity back can be designed to weigh the same, or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronaldkuntoro

Are forged cavity back irons heavier than casted cavity back irons?

The reason I asked this because I have a Mizuno forged cavity back irons and the heads feel heavy.  At least, heavier than casted cavity back iron I had in the past.

Forged irons are just one big chunky metal and Casted irons are glued together with lots of cavity.   That's why I'm thinking forged iron feels heavier than casted irons.

Anyone with similar experience?

[ronaldkuntoro]

  iacas said:

Originally Posted by iacas

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronaldkuntoro

Forged irons are just one big chunky metal and Casted irons are glued together with lots of cavity.   That's why I'm thinking forged iron feels heavier than casted irons.

Anyone with similar experience?

That doesn't even make sense. They're "glued together"? You can make a one-piece cast iron, you know. Most of them are. Molten metal poured into a mold. Done. Where's the "gluing"?

I actually visited a Golfsmith factory/warehouse.   Their casted iron are made in parts.   Those parts are glued together.  They got the front part and the back part Glued together.   You have to see the photo to get what I meant.

[ronaldkuntoro]

  max power said:

Originally Posted by max power

You asked about a forged cavity back vs. a cast cavity back, not a forged blade vs. a cast cavity back.  A cast cavity back is not "glued together," something can be glued into the back of any forged or cast cavity back.  Take a look at Mizuno MX-200s, MX-300s, JPX 800, etc.

Aren't Mizuno irons Grain Flow Forged???   Even the non forged ones are molded together.  So Mizuno irons are a bit different than other Cavity back irons.

[max power]

And I give up on this thread.

  ronaldkuntoro said:

Originally Posted by ronaldkuntoro

Aren't Mizuno irons Grain Flow Forged???   Even the non forged ones are molded together.  So Mizuno irons are a bit different than other Cavity back irons.

[ronaldkuntoro]

  max power said:

Originally Posted by max power

And I give up on this thread.

LOL....  BTW my question is ARE FORGED CAVITY BACK IRON weight more than a CASTED CAVITY BACK ?

I never asked about Forged blades.

[max power]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronaldkuntoro

Quote:

Originally Posted by max power

And I give up on this thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronaldkuntoro

Forged irons are just one big chunky metal and Casted irons are glued together with lots of cavity.   That's why I'm thinking forged iron feels heavier than casted irons.

Anyone with similar experience?

Aren't Mizuno irons Grain Flow Forged???   Even the non forged ones are molded together.  So Mizuno irons are a bit different than other Cavity back irons.

LOL....  BTW my question is ARE FORGED CAVITY BACK IRON weight more than a CASTED CAVITY BACK ?

I never asked about Forged blades.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronaldkuntoro

Forged irons are just one big chunky metal and Casted irons are glued together with lots of cavity. That's why I'm thinking forged iron feels heavier than casted irons.

Anyone with similar experience?

That doesn't even make sense. They're "glued together"? You can make a one-piece cast iron, you know. Most of them are. Molten metal poured into a mold. Done. Where's the "gluing"?

[dbuck]

If you had IDENTICAL clubhead designs exactly the same dimensions and designs, same cavity size etc, one cast in one piece and one forged, made from exactly the same alloy(if that is even possible) the forged club might be slightly heavier because it would be more dense. It would be something you could probably discern on a digital postal scale, but not at the end of a True Temper DG S300.

[jamo]

I highly doubt that forged would be any more dense than cast, or vise versa.

[sean_miller]

  jamo said:

Originally Posted by jamo

I highly doubt that forged would be any more dense than cast, or vise versa.

I wouldn't be surprised if a solid ingot heated and pressed into shape would be more dense than that metal heated to a liquid, then poured into a mold. I'm not sure either way, but it does make sense.

[iacas]

  sean_miller said:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

I wouldn't be surprised if a solid ingot heated and pressed into shape would be more dense than that metal heated to a liquid, then poured into a mold. I'm not sure either way, but it does make sense.

I don't doubt that either.

But I'm a scientist, and I'd probably have to weigh the heads on some fairly precise scales for finished heads that were the same size.

I'm also fairly certain the heads could easily be made to weigh the exact same amount depending on the finishing (grinding, polishing) done to them.

[jamo]

  sean_miller said:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamo

I highly doubt that forged would be any more dense than cast, or vise versa.

I wouldn't be surprised if a solid ingot heated and pressed into shape would be more dense than that metal heated to a liquid, then poured into a mold. I'm not sure either way, but it does make sense.

I could be wrong. According to Wikipedia, "hot worked" metal has higher ductility and smaller pores, so you're probably right, forged metal is probably a bit more dense, how much and whether a golfer could tell the difference are the questions.

Look at forged irons. Used ones have little indents all over the place, so they show the ability to become a tiny bit more dense right there. But I doubt that if you took a hammer to a Mizuno that you'd be able to compress it a whole lot. I could be way off though, I've never tried it.

[Clambake]

The density of steel should not be changed by being forged or cast unless there are micro gas bubbles present in the molten steel, but that doesn't happen.     The only change between forged and cast irons should be from the density of the steel used.     The 1025 steel used by Mizuno has a density of 7.858 x 1000kg/m3, while the 1018 steel used by Scratch (there is some dispute about what they actually use) is at 7.7 to 8.03, while grades of 17 series stainless such as that used by Ping run around 7.8 to 8.1.      So there are small differences in the steel density that could make a difference, but the interesting thing is that the steels typically used in castings are more likely to be heavier than the steels used in forging.

[dbuck]

I am NOT a scientist, but my layman's assumption was that there would be microscopic voids in a cast club vs a forged club being more compacted through pressure.  I was not suggesting that the density of the actual alloy would be any different, but rather that the compressed forging would contain more of the alloy due to less voids, and therefore the object of the same size would be more dense, not the metal itself.  On reflection, with modern manufacturing processes, they can probably remove all the voids.

At any rate, any difference would be undetectible without good measuring equipment.

[dbuck]

and I may have misspelled undetectible