Yardage book ?

[Gerald]

I am working on a new yardage book for the course I am a member off, the course has been going through some changes over the past 3 years, like new tees, hills being added, bunkers added, some ponds, etc..... so the old yardage book as little value at the moment.

Now there is some debate as to measure distances from the front edge of the green or from the center of the green.

In some coutries they measure from the front edge of the green and I see some benefits.

How about you, what would you suggest and why ?

[keb]

I would think front of the green since that tells you what you need to get on.  The course I play made changes recently becausing of flooding issue.  The Pro said that unlikely to update the yardage book because of everyone's use of GPS and Rangefinders.

[goblue107501]

To me, the biggest thing would be what do the other courses in the area do?  If it is common to measure to the center, then do that.  If it is common to measure to the front, do that.  Just stay consistent within your area. You don't want people to complain about your course and give it a bad name, based mostly because the way you measure is different.  I haven't traveled and played at a ton of courses in my time, but I can't remember any that based measurements to the front of the green.  It has always been the center.

That being said, if you have a detailed green for each hole with the full depth and width, it shouldn't really matter.  If I am standing on the 100 yard marker (measured to the front) in the fairway and know that the green is 30 yards deep, I should be able to figure out that it is 115 to the center and 130 to the back.

The other thing to consider is that not everyone will be using the yardage book so you don't want critical info in there that anyone playing won't have access to.  The point of a yardage book to me is to gain additional info about the course, you don't want it to be the only source.  So if you have sprinkler heads and markers with distances you want to be consistent throughout the course with the book.  You can't have some markings be to the front and some to the center.

[Ignorant]

  goblue107501 said:

Originally Posted by goblue107501

To me, the biggest thing would be what do the other courses in the area do?  If it is common to measure to the center, then do that.  If it is common to measure to the front, do that.  Just stay consistent within your area. You don't want people to complain about your course and give it a bad name, based mostly because the way you measure is different.  I haven't traveled and played at a ton of courses in my time, but I can't remember any that based measurements to the front of the green.  It has always been the center.

That being said, if you have a detailed green for each hole with the full depth and width, it shouldn't really matter.  If I am standing on the 100 yard marker (measured to the front) in the fairway and know that the green is 30 yards deep, I should be able to figure out that it is 115 to the center and 130 to the back.

The other thing to consider is that not everyone will be using the yardage book so you don't want critical info in there that anyone playing won't have access to.  The point of a yardage book to me is to gain additional info about the course, you don't want it to be the only source.  So if you have sprinkler heads and markers with distances you want to be consistent throughout the course with the book.  You can't have some markings be to the front and some to the center.

Excellent post with essential aspects!

As an opinion was asked by OP: Personally I cannot understand the benefit of measuring to the front of the green (which is a common practise in Continental Europe). The most common argument is that one does not have to do any subtracting but only adding up when calculating the distance to the pin. I would be surprised if that would be of any importance to anybody. In either case, if one wishes to know the exact distance from ball to pin one has to know not only location of the pin on the green but also length of the green. In the absence of such information it would be much more valuable to have distance to the center of the green instead of to the front. After all, in most cases it is fairly safe to aim to the center of the green regardless of pin position.

So if no other reasons exist (such as described by goblue10751) I would certainly do all measuring to the center of the green.

[The Recreational Golfer]

Sprinkler heads at my course are measured to the center of the green, with the yardage on a little red plastic plaque.

It would be easy put distance to the front on a little blue plaque right next to the red one, so you could see both distances on each sprinkler head.

I'll suggest that at my course, because they put in new heads this winer that are yet unmarked.

Thanks for brining it up.

[Ignorant]

  goblue107501 said:

Originally Posted by goblue107501

So if you have sprinkler heads and markers with distances you want to be consistent throughout the course with the book.  You can't have some markings be to the front and some to the center.

You can and it is not even a poor idea. I have played on a course where there are 100, 150 and 200 m markers to the center of the green (round and coloured red, yellow, white) and additionally distances to the front (square metallic plates with distance figure). This way the length of the green is given for anyone who wishes to calculate it. Pretty handy, I say.

Naturally this kind of system is an investment but once established does not require any maintenance costs for the course personnel.

[WUTiger]

Quote:

  goblue107501 said:

That being said, if you have a detailed green for each hole with the full depth and width, it shouldn't really matter.  If I am standing on the 100 yard marker (measured to the front) in the fairway and know that the green is 30 yards deep, I should be able to figure out that it is 115 to the center and 130 to the back.

Try for an overall diagram of the hole AND a blow-up of the green (with dimensions). Identify standard hole markers, and any sprinklerhead distances. Standard markers can be a stake (blue = 200 | white = 150 | red = 100), or a distinctive plant (blue spruce = 200, pinoak = 150).

It helps if the course has uniform markers throughout. Also, put on the scorecard and yardage book the color code for marker stakes or specific plants.

[goblue107501]

  Ignorant said:

Originally Posted by Ignorant

You can and it is not even a poor idea. I have played on a course where there are 100, 150 and 200 m markers to the center of the green (round and coloured red, yellow, white) and additionally distances to the front (square metallic plates with distance figure). This way the length of the green is given for anyone who wishes to calculate it. Pretty handy, I say.

Naturally this kind of system is an investment but once established does not require any maintenance costs for the course personnel.

I see your point, but I was referring to a system where they would just blindly mark distances, some to the center and some to the front.  So if on one hole all the markers were to the front, then the next hole they were to the center.  I can't imagine anyone would do that, but if I look at a yardage book I want to know that whatever number I see it is to the same point throughout.  If both distances are separately marked and notated, that is a great idea

[ERdiesel]

Me, personally, I would want distance to the front edge of the green with the caveat that you have the numbers for the depth and width of the green somewhere so that depending on the pin placement I can simply add X number of yards to the front of green number.  I just think that the mathematically challenged (myself included) can add much with less effort then subtract (from a center of the green figure for pin placements towards the front).

[B-Con]

As a high handicapper (an audience less likely to be using a yardage book), I always want to know the distance to the front of the green because I am very concerned with getting on. And if I'm hitting a 7i or less, odds are good that I'm aiming for the front half of the green anyway due to rollout. If you tell me the yardage to the center of the green, the first thing I'll do is convert it to the yardage to the front of the green (by estimation), secondly I'll estimate the yardage to the pin location. If you give me the yardage to the front, I'll only estimate the distance to the flag. Really, the only thing I'm interested in is the distance between front of the green and the pin that I have to aim for. That said, everywhere I've been (to my knowledge) gives yardages to the center of the green. Not a big deal, it's just one more simple calculating step I have to take.

[Deryck Griffith]

I vote for center of the green.  Mostly because that is where I aim 90% of the time vs. firing at pins.

Full confidence in knowing the distance to the center allows me to pull the club I need, get into my shot routine and execute the shot without having to or check how big the green and add that to the distance.

[sean_miller]

I think there's more money in renting out rangefinders and GPS units, but what do I know?!?!?

[Gerald]

Simple tip for getting your handicap down by at least 5 strokes :

  B-Con said:

Originally Posted by B-Con

As a high handicapper (an audience less likely to be using a yardage book), I always want to know the distance to the front of the green because I am very concerned with getting on. And if I'm hitting a 7i or less, odds are good that I'm aiming for the front half of the green anyway due to rollout. If you tell me the yardage to the center of the green, the first thing I'll do is convert it to the yardage to the front of the green (by estimation), secondly I'll estimate the yardage to the pin location. If you give me the yardage to the front, I'll only estimate the distance to the flag. Really, the only thing I'm interested in is the distance between front of the green and the pin that I have to aim for.

That said, everywhere I've been (to my knowledge) gives yardages to the center of the green. Not a big deal, it's just one more simple calculating step I have to take.

Hoping to land a ball between front edge and pin is NO-GO for a hc 22.4 (wrong thinking) ....... it is better to aim for the area between the flag and the back edge ...... why ? ..... simple ...... most trouble is short of the hole !..... so if you go for in between the front edge and the pin, you mostly (at hc. 22.4) end short and in all kinds of trouble adding strokes to your card.

If you aim for in between the hole and the back edge and it is good you are in a perfect spot and if it is short, you will be most likely still be at a great spot. !!!

Succes !!!!

[Gerald]

Yep, but ....

  sean_miller said:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

I think there's more money in renting out rangefinders and GPS units, but what do I know?!?!?

In our country rangefinders are only allowed in tournaments, if the committee alows it in a ruling. But normaly they are not allowed (not the same as in the USA, I know ) and GPS isn't allowed at all !

The yardage book will be ...... to the center, but also we will include to the front and to the back, markers in the course will be to the center ...... just in the way it is at most course in the region.

[sean_miller]

  Gerald said:

Originally Posted by Gerald

Simple tip for getting your handicap down by at least 5 strokes :

Hoping to land a ball between front edge and pin is NO-GO for a hc 22.4 (wrong thinking) ....... it is better to aim for the area between the flag and the back edge ...... why ? ..... simple ...... most trouble is short of the hole !..... so if you go for in between the front edge and the pin, you mostly (at hc. 22.4) end short and in all kinds of trouble adding strokes to your card.

If you aim for in between the hole and the back edge and it is good you are in a perfect spot and if it is short, you will be most likely still be at a great spot. !!!

Succes !!!!

That is great advice for some mid to high handicappers. My opinion is that high index players probably don't have great distance control or aim, so there's no one single answer to avoid a high number. One guy may have success looking for an opening and running the ball onto the green, another aiming at back centre of the green, and another may have the best luck aiming at the front 1/3 because he can't get enough spin to hold the green.

Years ago I was losing way more strokes by being long than short. Once I started aiming at the zone between pin high and about 5 yards short of the pin, my scores dropped.

[The Recreational Golfer]

You can get distance to the front quite easily if one day you just walk the greens from front to back to see how deep they are. (Put those depths in your yardage book.)

Divide the depth by two. Say that gives you 16 on a particular hole.

The next time you play you determine from the sprinkler heads that you're 153 yards from the center.

It's 137 yards (153-16) to the front.

[B-Con]

  Gerald said:

Simple tip for getting your handicap down by at least 5 strokes :

Hoping to land a ball between front edge and pin is NO-GO for a hc 22.4 (wrong thinking) ....... it is better to aim for the area between the flag and the back edge ...... why ? ..... simple ...... most trouble is short of the hole !..... so if you go for in between the front edge and the pin, you mostly (at hc. 22.4) end short and in all kinds of trouble adding strokes to your card.

If you aim for in between the hole and the back edge and it is good you are in a perfect spot and if it is short, you will be most likely still be at a great spot. !!!

Succes !!!!

Yeah, I've wrestled with my strategy before. I've heard that high-handicappers should aim for at least the middle of the green. For me, though, I'm fairly honest with myself about how far I hit on average and when I miss greens it's either left, right, or very short due to a bad mishit. I only come up about 10 yards short of the green a couple times a round, so aiming deeper into the green might get one or two more balls on the green on average, but it may also dump one or two balls more off the green. Since almost all the greens at my local course go uphill front to back, I'd rather be short and chipping uphill than long and chipping downhill. But, you do make a good point, there are some situations where I'd be better off aiming deeper. Especially now that with my short irons I actually can generate some backspin minimizes roll-out on well-struck shots, I'd probably be in less danger of going off the green. I constantly re-evaluate on what I should do in this area, it's just that I have so few chip-ons from in front of the green that I haven't yet decided that it's a strategy worth changing. I don't want to hijack this thread, though... so food for thought. Always appreciate advice. :-)

[adamgoodman]

I didn't really want to make a new thread, so I'll ask this question at risk of being Mr. Somewhat Irrelevant.

Are using yardage books legal in high school competition?  A lot of the "away" courses I play are right in the area, and I few I have played a couple times before, and I've often ran into trouble because of not knowing the distance inconsistencies from one course to another.  Now that this year I have a car and a steady job, I could have the opportunity to visit courses prior to the match.

Lots of hoopla, but the real question would be if I made yardage books for these courses, would it be legal to use during competition?