Are commentators trying to throw us off?

[TXjammer]

You guys think that maybe it's done a little different from tournament to tournament?  Maybe?

[JayMc]

I love Trackman.  We have the Trackman Pro and Trackman gaming system at our club and so far both are a hit.

Originally Posted by Clambake

Trackman has actual data of the pros' distances and in one of their newsletters addresses the question:   http://www.trackman.dk/download/newsletter/newsletter6.pdf     Check out the table of distances and their thoughts.

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

I know that they get the club selection from the caddie.  I worked the tournament as a hole marshal for 4 years.  But I never saw David Feherty pace off a single step.  He didn't have to because he gets the Shotlink data from the CBS production truck through his headset before he ever gets to the area where the ball lies.  He watches for the sign from the caddie as to club selection, but that's about it.

The guy I was referring to was walking with groups that did not not have a walking commentator like Feherty, Maltbie or Rolfing.  Since there are only a few groups that have a commentator with them, most groups do not.  When the group was putting out on a green, this guy walks to the next fairway (par 4 or 5) and waits for the group to hit.  When they do, he goes to their balls and paces their yardage and gets the club from each caddy.  Simple as that.  I've seen these guys on TV as well, surprised you didn't notice them when you marshalled.  They walk inside the ropes.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

The guy I was referring to was walking with groups that did not not have a walking commentator like Feherty, Maltbie or Rolfing.  Since there are only a few groups that have a commentator with them, most groups do not.  When the group was putting out on a green, this guy walks to the next fairway (par 4 or 5) and waits for the group to hit.  When they do, he goes to their balls and paces their yardage and gets the club from each caddy.  Simple as that.  I've seen these guys on TV as well, surprised you didn't notice them when you marshalled.  They walk inside the ropes.

While I agree that there was  always a crowd inside the ropes (players, caddies, standard bearer, the scorekeeper who radioed the hole scores to the leader board operators, etc.) , nobody except the caddies ever paced out distances.  I can assure that I would have noticed in 4 years of working every one of some 14 marshal positions on the par 5, 17th hole.  That was always a pivotal hole in the International, with 2 double eagles posted during the run of the tournament.  I witnessed one by Steve Lowery the year that he lost by one stroke to Rich Beem.

I don't know what you witnessed, but it was nothing like anything I ever saw.

[Bird E3]

I just hate how they make it sound like every shot is so difficult.  It drives me crazy, next time you watch just listen to the comments on almost every shot they say something about the lie, the break, how fast the green is, how deep the rough is, the pin placement and these guys stick it 8 out of 10 times. I see Phil chipping from 10 yards away and they make it sound impossible and he hits to 6 inches. He could probably repeat that chip 10 times in a row.

[colin007]

why the hell would anyone but the player and the caddy walk anything off?  why wouldnt this person just shoot the distance with a laser rangefinder?

[JordanJCaron]

I have seen on two occasions announcers say a player is hitting a club more for a shot when in fact the close up of the player shows he hit less club.  One instance was at the PGA in 2008 with Sergio and Feherty.  Feherty said he hit 8 when it was actually 6 from 180 something into a 5 par.

If this happened more and more than I would suspect they're trying make the players look superior but it's not and simply an announcer-caddie mix up.  Trust me, they do not need to embellish anything with these players because they're really good!

[deronsizemore]

I think some of that goes on. There are times though that you really just can't see how much wind or how much elevation change there is in a shot from watching on TV. Take the Masters for example. You really can't tell on TV just how many elevation changes there are on Augusta National. You're always hitting uphill or downhill which will add or subtract yardages. There are some guys out there that can hit a PW 180 yards, but they are few and far between. Majority of the guys' PW yardages are in the 120-150 range and 150 would be a bomb for most out there. Trackman data also doesn't lie. You can clearly see that the PGA tour average carry with a driver is 269. There are guys carrying it 300, but that's also not the norm. Again, you don't know how much wind they may have at their back or if they're hitting downhill which could turn that usual 269 carry into a 300 carry plus a little roll and they've now just hit one 320.

Then, the other factors of course are the lofts of each club. No player out there is the same and they all prefer different lofts for different irons, different shaft lengths, etc. All of these factors go into how far the ball will go. You never know from watching on TV if the player is hitting an iron with an "8" on the bottom but may have a 7 iron loft.

At the end of the day, you could drive yourself mad analyzing all of this, so it's best to not. :)

[Joe G]

I was at the US Open in pebble beach last year (thats me on 18 in my avatar). I spent a rather large amount of time durring the week on hole twelve. It was a par 3 I would say close to 220 yards. I was on the tee box so I was close enough to actually talk to the players and listen to them and thier caddies discuss the tee shot. I would say 95% of the field hit 3 irons down the hill to the green the other 5% hit 4 irons. When I watched the replays on tv at the hotel every night I heard the commentators referring to the clubs being used as 5 irons and 6 irons. I laughed. Most of the time those guys have no idea what the players are using. the on course guys with cameras and microphones only follow the big pairings. So with everyone else Johnny Miller or Gary McCord or the bald ESPN guy are just blowing hot air. I think its funny how johnny miller becomes the worlds greatest swing analysts, especially on putts. Everyone knows he had to quit playing because he couldnt shake the yips.

its what goes on at a pga event that you dont see on tv that will amaze you. Duffs, Shanks, scores in the 80's. Everything about a televized golf tourney is sensationalized. You see the double eagles, and miraculous approach shots. But you never see a swing from the guy that shoots 77. So yeah they try and make it sexy for TV.

[Joe G]

Originally Posted by JordanJCaron

I have seen on two occasions announcers say a player is hitting a club more for a shot when in fact the close up of the player shows he hit less club.  One instance was at the PGA in 2008 with Sergio and Feherty.  Feherty said he hit 8 when it was actually 6 from 180 something into a 5 par.

If this happened more and more than I would suspect they're trying make the players look superior but it's not and simply an announcer-caddie mix up.  Trust me, they do not need to embellish anything with these players because they're really good!

I can agree on this to an extent. These guys are really that good, but when you see it in person the full swings are impressive, but really not that much better than the scratch players in your saturday group. The guys on tour do 1 thing WAY WAY better than your average weekend warrior. and that is Putting. I saw so many bad swings at the Open last year it amazed me. I almost thought well Gee I could play with these guys. Then you see how consistently they drop putts from 12 feet.  Its like shooting freethrows for those guys. Thats where the real separation of good players and elite players takes place.

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by Joe G

its what goes on at a pga event that you dont see on tv that will amaze you. Duffs, Shanks, scores in the 80's. Everything about a televized golf tourney is sensationalized. You see the double eagles, and miraculous approach shots. But you never see a swing from the guy that shoots 77. So yeah they try and make it sexy for TV.

The tournaments are not sensationalized, as in made more exciting than real life.  What you are seeing are the best players in the world, playing at their best.  True, watching a guy slog it around for a 77 will probably not be shown (unless his initials are TW) because they are not part of the "story" of who will win the tournament.

Just like in the Olympics, they rarely show the ski jumper who will finish 143rd.  They will show the top 10.  No different.

[TXjammer]

Originally Posted by Bird E3

I just hate how they make it sound like every shot is so difficult.  It drives me crazy, next time you watch just listen to the comments on almost every shot they say something about the lie, the break, how fast the green is, how deep the rough is, the pin placement and these guys stick it 8 out of 10 times. I see Phil chipping from 10 yards away and they make it sound impossible and he hits to 6 inches. He could probably repeat that chip 10 times in a row.

...or how the players takes just a honey swing at the ball, and they play it in slow motion 30 times telling you to "just look at the POWER he produces as he comes through the ball!!!!!" : D ....always using words and phrases like "a tremendous amount of" and "incredible strength" .  LOL  There's definitely athletes on the tour, but...to me, incredible strength is a phrase that should be reserved for the strong man competitions, football, and weight lifting comps.

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by Joe G

I can agree on this to an extent. These guys are really that good, but when you see it in person the full swings are impressive, but really not that much better than the scratch players in your saturday group. The guys on tour do 1 thing WAY WAY better than your average weekend warrior. and that is Putting. I saw so many bad swings at the Open last year it amazed me. I almost thought well Gee I could play with these guys. Then you see how consistently they drop putts from 12 feet.  Its like shooting freethrows for those guys. Thats where the real separation of good players and elite players takes place.

These must be different players than I have seen when watching Tour events in person over the past 20+ years.  Although each swing may look different, such as Mediate, Watson, Furyk, the quality of their contact is unlike any one I've played with, and that includes many club and minitour pros and plus handicappers.

No question that their putting sets them further apart from us mere mortals.  I am always impressed by their touch.  It seems that every approach putt has the perfect speed that, if it doesn't go in, always seems to leave no more than a 1'-2' comeback putt (and hardly ever is the putt short).

[NEOHMark]

Originally Posted by TXjammer

...........Another instance they kept saying how drive after drive on one particular hole was easily over 300 yds...so I found the course on Google Earth and measured in yds from tee to their drive....270-290yds.  ???? (Scottsdale, Az Waste Mngmt Open) Only a small handful reached over 300 yds.  (I know, I need a life!) : )

Look, I know these guys are very good...but I don't need to be bluffed and blind-sided to be convinced.  What do y'all think?

In 2010, only 12 PGA Tour pros averaged 300 or more.  No doubt they CAN hit it farther, but they also have a fair share that are throttled back a good bit - to make that average.  The tour average in driving yardage is currently at 285 yds. Impressive as hell, but not everyone is pounding out drive after drive after drive at 300+.  Bubba and JB Holmes are.  Guys like Luke Donald and Kevin Na sure aren't.

[TXjammer]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

The tournaments are not sensationalized, as in made more exciting than real life.  What you are seeing are the best players in the world, playing at their best.  True, watching a guy slog it around for a 77 will probably not be shown (unless his initials are TW) because they are not part of the "story" of who will win the tournament.

Just like in the Olympics, they rarely show the ski jumper who will finish 143rd.  They will show the top 10.  No different.

I hate to burst your bubble, but I watched Phil (who I AM a fan of)  go from the tee..to the bushes...to the sand...over the green to the rough...chip on...and 2 putt for double bogey.   I do that every time I play!!!!!!   But somehow, the commentator made it sound like if it had been anyone else, it would have been MUCH worse??????   Meanwhile, young Rickie birdied the hole.

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by TXjammer

I hate to burst your bubble, but I watched Phil (who I AM a fan of)  go from the tee..to the bushes...to the sand...over the green to the rough...chip on...and 2 putt for double bogey.   I do that every time I play!!!!!!   But somehow, the commentator made it sound like if it had been anyone else, it would have been MUCH worse??????   Meanwhile, young Rickie birdied the hole.

Was that during the Match Play?  If so, that would make sense, as those were head to head competitions.  But on a Sunday of a stroke play event, even Phil won't get much air time if he were well back in the field and not playing well.

[newtogolf]

Originally Posted by NEOHMark

In 2010, only 12 PGA Tour pros averaged 300 or more.  No doubt they CAN hit it farther, but they also have a fair share that are throttled back a good bit - to make that average.  The tour average in driving yardage is currently at 285 yds. Impressive as hell, but not everyone is pounding out drive after drive after drive at 300+.  Bubba and JB Holmes are.  Guys like Luke Donald and Kevin Na sure aren't.

You have to be careful when you talk about PGA driving averages, because they don't reflect every drive a player makes per round.  According to the PGA site, the averages are calculated as follows;

"These drives are measured on two holes per round. Care is taken to select two holes which face in opposite directions to counteract the effect of wind. Drives are measured to the point at which they come to rest regardless of whether they are in the fairway or not."

Depending on the number of tournaments a player participates in and how many cuts they make, a few bad drives could have a big impact on their average.

[JordanJCaron]

Originally Posted by Joe G

I can agree on this to an extent. These guys are really that good, but when you see it in person the full swings are impressive, but really not that much better than the scratch players in your saturday group. The guys on tour do 1 thing WAY WAY better than your average weekend warrior. and that is Putting. I saw so many bad swings at the Open last year it amazed me. I almost thought well Gee I could play with these guys. Then you see how consistently they drop putts from 12 feet.  Its like shooting freethrows for those guys. Thats where the real separation of good players and elite players takes place.

What does the swing have to do with anything? It's the results that matter.  I have a nicer swing than 30% of the guys on tour but everyone of them hits the ball better than I do.  Yes they're amazing putters but they hit it much straighter and far more "flush" than your scratch weekend guy...