Thoughts on Rickie Fowler and The Masters' tradition?

[sacm3bill]

Early in this thread it was pointed out by Turtleback (see http://thesandtrap.com/forum/thread/45477/thoughts-on-rickie-fowler-and-the-masters-tradition/18#post_592520 ) that the original article said nothing about anyone touching Fowler's cap other than Fowler himself. A Yahoo blogger linked to the article and added his own version of the event that included Augusta National member Ron Townsend physically turning the cap around, when in reality the original article only had Townsend asking Fowler to do so.

Yahoo news stories and blogs are the antithesis of quality journalism, and this is yet another example of that.

[burtonda]

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

Early in this thread it was pointed out by Turtleback (see http://thesandtrap.com/forum/thread/45477/thoughts-on-rickie-fowler-and-the-masters-tradition/18#post_592520) that the original article said nothing about anyone touching Fowler's cap other than Fowler himself. A Yahoo blogger linked to the article and added his own version of the event that included Augusta National member Ron Townsend physically turning the cap around, when in reality the original article only had Townsend asking Fowler to do so.

Yahoo news stories and blogs are the antithesis of quality journalism, and this is yet another example of that.

You're right, my bad.  I should have looked into the details myself and I take back my previous comment knocking him for touching his hat.

I, however, still have a gripe with an Augusta official not waiting until they were off-camera to make this request.  Anyone who follows professional golf knows that this is how Fowler does interviews and it has nothing to do with disrespecting the game.  They should have told him before the interview or waited until it was over.  That would be the professional, and adult, way to handle it.

[slabm7]

The world of golf needs more stand outs like Rickie Fowler. He introduces a completly new younger crowd to golf. If this sport wants to get rid of its old stuffy guy stigma then we need more stand outs. The future of golf is in guys like Rickie Fowler and less in stuffy guys like Townsend. Its not like he was playing with his hat on backwards. Augusta is a great tournament but its clubs like them that are whats wrong with golf.

[Shindig]

Originally Posted by slabm7

stuffy white guys like Townsend. Its not like he was playing with his hat on backwards. Augusta is a great tournament but its clubs like them that are whats wrong with golf.

This is a particularly funny comment, considering that Augusta member Ron Townsend is African-American.

Edit:  I don't mean any offense to slabm7, of course.  I just found it funny the way you phrased your comment.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by burtonda

You're right, my bad.  I should have looked into the details myself and I take back my previous comment knocking him for touching his hat.

I, however, still have a gripe with an Augusta official not waiting until they were off-camera to make this request.  Anyone who follows professional golf knows that this is how Fowler does interviews and it has nothing to do with disrespecting the game.  They should have told him before the interview or waited until it was over.  That would be the professional, and adult, way to handle it.

Were they even on camera?  I don't think so since I haven't ever seen video of this.  But maybe I just missed it?

[turtleback]

Funny thing is, Tiger was excoriated for introducing a new younger crowd to golf in some circles.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by turtleback

Funny thing is, Tiger was excoriated for introducing a new younger crowd to golf in some circles.

I don't recall that.

[slabm7]

Originally Posted by Shindig

This is a particularly funny comment, considering that Augusta member Ron Townsend is African-American.

Edit:  I don't mean any offense to slabm7, of course.  I just found it funny the way you phrased your comment.

No offense taken, didn't evern realize I put the white part in there. I didn't really mean the dispute of allowing people of different ethnic backgrounds as members. But why did it take them so long to do it? If Tiger Woods never came along they still wouldn't allow balck members. A few things bother me about Augusta National. The fact that they don't allow women doesn't really bother me. But the fact that they only have about 300 members, and from all over the world. Most of them aren't even golfers, just members because of who they are. When was the last time a member probably broke 100 on that course? How does the course ever get played? Also the way they use there power over the TV networks, control all the logos during the tournament and don't allow sponsors. It seems its a bunch of rich guys running it who use Bobby Jones name to control the whole event. Golf is a great sport but these guys seem to walk around with there nose's a little higher than everyone else's. Clubs like this make it seem like golf is a rich mans sport rather than trying to make it appealing to the average guy.

[newtogolf]

Originally Posted by slabm7

No offense taken, didn't evern realize I put the white part in there. I didn't really mean the dispute of allowing people of different ethnic backgrounds as members. But why did it take them so long to do it? If Tiger Woods never came along they still wouldn't allow balck members.

Augusta admitted their first black member in 1990, Tiger didn't play there until 1997 and won the Masters, the two had nothing to do with one another.

[slabm7]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

My mistake, for some reason I thought it was 2000.

[Shindig]

slabm7 and I seem to have trouble quoting newtogolf.  So I'm not sure which he's responding to, but I'll add some information for anyone following along.

Tiger first competed in the Masters in 1995.    Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_Woods#Major_championships (particularly, "results timeline").  This is because of his 1994 U.S. Amateur win.  Of course, he isn't the first non-white to compete;  Lee Elder competed in 1975 and cracked the top-20 by the end of that decade.

Ron Townsend, who joined in the early 90s (but had played the course a bit previously), is described in this piece. http://www.nytimes.com/1991/04/14/sports/sports-of-the-times-augusta-s-rewarding-golf-nut.html

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by slabm7

My mistake, for some reason I thought it was 2000.

You said the Master's official turned Fowler's hat around.  That was wrong.

You said he should have talked to Fowler off-camera.  That seems to be wrong since no one has posted a video of it happening.

You said the guy who allegedly turned the hat around was a rich white guy.  That was wrong.

You said that Augusta didn't allow any black members until Tiger came along.  That was wrong.

Maybe before the next reason for criticizing Augusta National you come up with you should do a little better fact checking?

And, BTW, you seriously criticize the club for not allowing the networks to run things their way?  You really want more commercials?  I wish the USGA had the stones to limit commercials.  But I think the USGA cares about the TV money a lot more than Augusta does.  You don't think the USGA controls the use of their logo?

I'd also suggest that you don't know much about the history of the club and the tournament.  Like how they almost went bust in the early years.  Like how their control of the TV network resulted in most of the innovations of golf coverage we take for granted today.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

I don't recall that.

You must not have ever been around rec.sport.golf or the Golf Channel discussion boards or the Golfwrx discussion boards.

[slabm7]

Originally Posted by turtleback

You said the Master's official turned Fowler's hat around.  That was wrong.

Could you please show me where I said that?

Originally Posted by turtleback

You said he should have talked to Fowler off-camera.  That seems to be wrong since no one has posted a video of it happening.

Could you please show me where I said that?

Originally Posted by turtleback

You said the guy who allegedly turned the hat around was a rich white guy.  That was wrong.

I mistakely put in the "white" part, but the rich stuffy guy who stands for what is wrong with Augusta is correct.

Originally Posted by turtleback

You said that Augusta didn't allow any black members until Tiger came along.  That was wrong.

I was wrong with that and I admitted it.

Originally Posted by turtleback

Maybe before the next reason for criticizing Augusta National you come up with you should do a little better fact checking?

And, BTW, you seriously criticize the club for not allowing the networks to run things their way?  You really want more commercials?  I wish the USGA had the stones to limit commercials.  But I think the USGA cares about the TV money a lot more than Augusta does.  You don't think the USGA controls the use of their logo?

Augusta cares greatly about the TV money, how do you think they get away with only having a $10,000/yr membership fee? If they only have 300 members thats only $3,000,000/yr. Maybe add another few mill for merchandise and double it to $6,000,000. Augusta takes alot more than that to run a year.  If they had no money from CBS their member fees would be much higher. The USGA can't limit its commercials. Do you think they would get event sponsors without giving them TV time? I don't want more commercials but its what brings in money for the players and makes for better competition.

Originally Posted by turtleback

I'd also suggest that you don't know much about the history of the club and the tournament.  Like how they almost went bust in the early years.  Like how their control of the TV network resulted in most of the innovations of golf coverage we take for granted today.

Can you please direct me to the "innovations" in golf coverage? And do you really think that without the Masters we wouldn't have the same coverage as we do today? I enjoy the Masters and think its a great tournament, but the club itself is whats wrong with golf. The fact that you have the greatest course in America and you let only 300 people become members, and they are members not because of what they have done for golf but because who they are in society.

[Tomboys]

Originally Posted by burtonda

I, however, still have a gripe with an Augusta official not waiting until they were off-camera to make this request.  Anyone who follows professional golf knows that this is how Fowler does interviews and it has nothing to do with disrespecting the game.  They should have told him before the interview or waited until it was over.  That would be the professional, and adult, way to handle it.

Not disagreeing (entirely), but we may not be privy to the "truth".  The unknown in this situation is whether or not Ricky was informed of the rule beforehand.  Given that Augusta tends to invite a lot of young (amateurs) and have other first-time players, I would be surprised if each golfer wasn't made aware of what the tournament behavior rules are (such as no running, etc.).  If Ricky was given the information and he failed to adhere to it, then the official was correct to "remind" Ricky as he saw fit.  On the other hand, if this rule is an unwritten one, then yes, perhaps the official could've reminded him at a more subtle time and location.

At the end of the day, this is not the Ricky Fowler Open; this is The Masters.  If Ricky wants to have his own tourney, then I'm sure he can pretty much do whatever he deems appropriate.  However, when you participate in someone else's tourney, then you abide by whatever rules they have in place at the time.  You don't have the right to arbitrarily dismiss certain rules at your descretion.

Originally Posted by slabm7

Augusta cares greatly about the TV money, how do you think they get away with only having a $10,000/yr membership fee? If they only have 300 members thats only $3,000,000/yr. Maybe add another few mill for merchandise and double it to $6,000,000. Augusta takes alot more than that to run a year.  If they had no money from CBS their member fees would be much higher. The USGA can't limit its commercials. Do you think they would get event sponsors without giving them TV time? I don't want more commercials but its what brings in money for the players and makes for better competition.

IMO, The Masters is different than the majority of other golf tournaments.  The difference?  The members.  When Martha Burk decided to take on AN, she tried to leverage the membership to add a female member by threatening to boycott any products/services of the sponsors that supported the tournament.  Then Chairman, Hootie Johnson, responded by cancelling all the television sponsor contracts for the ('03 & '04 year?).  When asked how those tournaments would be funded, Hootie stated that the AN member(ship) would do it.  And, they did.  I still remember watching The Masters with no commericals.  It was pretty awesome.

As I stated earlier, the members of AN and their ability to host The Masters is what separates them from many, if not all, the other tournaments on the PGA Tour.  Their member list includes the likes of Warren Buffet and (recently) Bill Gates.  These aren't exactly your everyday country-club rich guys.  These are billionaires. Sure, maybe you could leverage them somewhat (since they are still active in their business endeavors).  However, the balance of the members are retired with their wealth secured and/or they come from "old" money.  Essentially, these are financially untouchable members.  What is the cost of hosting The Masters?  $10M?  Pfft.  For the top 100 members (financially speaking) to come up with $100K apiece to host The Masters is like you and me coming up with $5 for a happy meal.

Originally Posted by slabm7

I enjoy the Masters and think its a great tournament, but the club itself is whats wrong with golf. The fact that you have the greatest course in America and you let only 300 people become members, and they are members not because of what they have done for golf but because who they are in society.

I'm not too sure where you're going with this.  Are you saying that the club somehow owes something to the everyday golfer because it hosts The Masters and generates a profit?  If that's the case, you have to look at what is done with the profits.  If it's used to line the pockets of members so that they can simply buy new Gulfstream jets, then yes, maybe you have a case.  However, from what I've read, much of the profits are donated to charities and, perhaps, used to offset some of the cost of hosting The Masters.  But, as I stated above, the members are more than capable of hosting The Masters without sponsorship money.  Why do it (have sponsorships)?  Because it makes financial sense to do so.

While you didn't have issue with AN's (so far) non-woman membership, I will address it.  As far as (percieved, real or non-existent, depending on your point of view) discriminatory conduct of the AN club is concerned, I'm on the fence about that.  I "belong" to a group of golfers that embarks on an annual trip to play golf in different locations on courses that we wouldn't normally play.  It started out 10 years ago with 12 guys going on a golf "man-cation".  I was one of the original 12.  It's now has 100 "members", all guys, that work in our industry.  We even have a corporate "host".  Now, we could be viewed as discriminatory because there are no women in our "membership".  However, we didn't set up to have just men.  Rather, as the years went by, people heard about our man-cation through one of the original members.  That member would speak to the other members and ask if we would consider adding a member which just happened to be a guy.  In fact, this was the major "selling" point for the wives/gf of members going on the trip, no women.  This scenario evolved over the years to where it is now.  We don't seek new members, we're comfortable with the number where it is now.  When a member leaves, he gets replaced by another that a current member "champions".  And, there's a wait-list.  Also, there have been members that weren't invited back because of their conduct.  You know the routine, out of town, away from the wife and family.  Too much booze (sometimes drugs) resulting in insulting and rude behavior.  Gone.

The last part of your last sentence also is somewhat unclear to me.  Are you saying that you have an issue with AN's members because you feel that they should be judged by their contribution to golf rather than who they are in society?  If this is your meaning, then I'm sorry but who are you to judge anyone?  IMO, before you can ask that question, you need to look within.  What are your contributions to golf?  I don't know you, but if you've made substantial contributions to golf then please accept my sincerest apology and I applaud you for your deeds.  If you haven't done anything, then all you are is a prejudiced golfer with an undue sense of entitlement.