A female version of The Masters?

[clubchamp]

Originally Posted by allin

OK, but everyone just states it as fact.  No one quantifies in any reasonable manner.  How much softer and slower are the greens, how much shorter is the rough, pin placements? how is that quantified.  Are you taking this from some tournament set up guide or what?  The senior tour  sets up everything but its majors shorter, slower, shorter also.  Their set up guide clues you in to how much. In the last 5-7 years they have added some length and green speed, although rough is normally still shorter.  When no clear comparisons are made of how big the differences are it sounds more like a you throw like a girl put down then a reasoned comparison.

I'll quantify it from hand experience since I've played Bulle Rock both right before and right after the LPGA used to have a major there. The only real change that happened to that course for an lpga major was they made the greens a touch faster. They leave the rough at the normal height, pins are a blend some are a little tucked but most are accessible and the greens are as soft as any other day there. I'm not saying LPGA players aren't very talented because they are very good but their course set up are nothing like the mens in terms of majors. The other thing I've noticed is at men's US Opens there is always a green or two that they seem to almost lose control of by sunday. I want to say winged foot or shinnecock they had to water them mid round on sunday plus 14 at Pebble was borderline out of hand last year. You never see that happen during a womens US Open so that would tell me they aren't letting the greens get nearly as hard and fast for the women.

[DocWu1948]

Originally Posted by Pickerjohn

On the original topic, there is one and only one Masters and it will remain that way.

I agree.

It would probably mean we were at the end of Western civilization and Capitalism if the membership at Augusta were desperate enough to be running a for-profit event like an LPGA tour on their grounds.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Lofty Lefty

But why couldn't the ladies have their own maters anywhere? Find a course that would rival the individuality of Augusta, or perhaps build a new one? And then keep the mens tour off of it, and save it wholly for the Ladies Masters? - But that would be my second choice to having them play at Augusta.

Possible counter-argument: isn't that what they have at the Kraft-Nabisco/Dinah Shore thing?

I think they could go a step farther, someone could create some exclusive women's-only club, and they could have it there. I'd watch. I'd love it if they could do that. Probably won't happen, though. But they're kinda close as it is...

Originally Posted by allin

OK, but everyone just states it as fact.  No one quantifies in any reasonable manner.  How much softer and slower are the greens, how much shorter is the rough, pin placements? how is that quantified. Are you taking this from some tournament set up guide or what?

The guides would tell you, but I will tell you that I've observed it. I've seen the majors played at Augusta. I've talked to the superintendents and the grounds crew. I've seen when and how much they've watered, I've watched shots land on the greens (in person), I've seen the pin placements, the rough height, etc.

The courses are set up softer, slower, shorter rough, etc.

[Lofty Lefty]

Originally Posted by iacas

I think they could go a step farther, someone could create some exclusive women's-only club, and they could have it there. I'd watch. I'd love it if they could do that. Probably won't happen, though. But they're kinda close as it is...

That was actually my original idea, but then I thought of how silly it sounded! Not sure if there is a market anywhere for a womens only club/course in the states?

But I bet it would be the cleanest, most well presented club course in the world!

[The Recreational Golfer]

The Masters started out as the Augusta National Invitational, essentially the Bobby Jones Invitational, and has that arc of tradition behind it.

A women's tournament would have no contact with that tradition, so what would be the point?

[Lofty Lefty]

Originally Posted by The Recreational Golfer

The Masters started out as the Augusta National Invitational, essentially the Bobby Jones Invitational, and has that arc of tradition behind it.

A women's tournament would have no contact with that tradition, so what would be the point?

And when the Masters started out, it was just Bobby Jone's invitational, with no tradition behind it. You gotta start something somwhere before it gets any real aura and prestige about it.

I think a womens tournament that is just as tough, if not tougher than it is to qualify for the masters would be something special. This year they have a 'tournament of champions' in which the top 3 from each tournament qualify. But if there's a double qualification it just goes to next girl etc. So by the end of the year someone who's best finish is T16th could qualify.

On the right track, but I would like to see something a little harder to get into, and therefore win.

[lumpuckeroo]

Originally Posted by Lofty Lefty

And when the Masters started out, it was just Bobby Jone's invitational, with no tradition behind it. You gotta start something somwhere before it gets any real aura and prestige about it.

I think a womens tournament that is just as tough, if not tougher than it is to qualify for the masters would be something special. This year they have a 'tournament of champions' in which the top 3 from each tournament qualify. But if there's a double qualification it just goes to next girl etc. So by the end of the year someone who's best finish is T16th could qualify.

On the right track, but I would like to see something a little harder to get into, and therefore win.

But this is basically what the Kraft Nabisco Tournament is, a major played on the same course every year, with a tradition of jumping in the lake if you win.  Problem is that this just isn't as ingrained in sports lure as other events, and I'm not sure if it will ever be.  If they could have done this on some legendary course maybe, I just don't think that Mission Hills comes across as legendary.

[The Recreational Golfer]

Originally Posted by Lofty Lefty

And when the Masters started out, it was just Bobby Jone's invitational, with no tradition behind it. You gotta start something somewhere before it gets any real aura and prestige about it.

Agreed. But let the women spend four decades building their own traditions instead of trying to graft themselves onto an existing one.

[Ernest Jones]

Would they call it "The Mistresses"?

[Shindig]

Originally Posted by Ernest Jones

Would they call it "The Mistresses"?

And could Tiger Woods be the ceremonial host?

[Bigtank]

I think they should leave the Master's and Augusta National to it self, I dont want to cheapin the tournament.

I know the Kraft / Nabisco is aimed at that, maybe they need to goto a storied course.  Maybe like Pine Valley????

[Canuck]

Okay no my reply is not meant to go against the LPGA because I am a hugely pro LPGA. IMO the Masters is the only mens tourney that comes back to the same location every year and is the holy grail of PGA golf. I think that it would take away from the Masters as a tradition if the LPGA had their Masters there. Now the LPGA has the Kraft Nabisco which has been held at the same location for going back almost to the beginning. I think they should embrace their own traditions and try and build it as such. August has that sacred allure to it goes back to Hogan, Nelson, Snead, Palmer, Nicklas, Seve............ I could go on and on. The LPGA trying to compare or piggy back on that is not the imagine I would want as the LPGA. I think making their own tradition and building off of them is the way to go.