Golf Losing Appeal

[B-Con]

I agree that pace of play is a big problem with golf today. The carts at my local course show you how far ahead or behind schedule you are. I think that's a nice idea for reminding players that they have a pace to keep up. Unfortunately, that sort of thing is easy to ignore, and if you're stuck behind someone else it doesn't help you at all. I would think that players playing from the wrong tees is the easiest slow-play problem to fix. I think that playing from long tees should be a privilege earned, not a privilege inherited. The course makes the rules and owes all it's customers a good experience, so given that a player's choice impacts the others that follow him I don't think it's a player's right to choose their experience. The first teebox (or even every teebox) should have a sign at all teeboxes that play longer than 6,000 yards saying: 1) Do not play from these tees if you have a handicap of less than 15 (or unless you can expect to shoot about 85 or under) 2) Don't play longer tees just because your friends do A marshal watching players push-slice shots from the blue tees for the second time should be able to ask what their handicaps are and then point to the sign.

[allin]

I agree that pace of play is a big problem with golf today. The carts at my local course show you how far ahead or behind schedule you are. I think that's a nice idea for reminding players that they have a pace to keep up. Unfortunately, that sort of thing is easy to ignore, and if you're stuck behind someone else it doesn't help you at all. I would think that players playing from the wrong tees is the easiest slow-play problem to fix. I think that playing from long tees should be a privilege earned, not a privilege inherited. The course makes the rules and owes all it's customers a good experience, so given that a player's choice impacts the others that follow him I don't think it's a player's right to choose their experience. The first teebox (or even every teebox) should have a sign at all teeboxes that play longer than 6,000 yards saying: 1) Do not play from these tees if you have a handicap of less than 15 (or unless you can expect to shoot about 85 or under) 2) Don't play longer tees just because your friends do A marshal watching players push-slice shots from the blue tees for the second time should be able to ask what their handicaps are and then point to the sign.

In this era of the customer is always right, golf operations are not willing to risk angering paying customers. Any restrictons based on playing ability are unlikely. Courses will need to take steps to design courses and tees in ways that encourage proper tees and speed play. I do like the idea of two holes on each green with different sizes and locations. For example if a twelve-15 like me is playing a 6 we could play from the white tees, but with different holes we would could both still be challenged. I do believe courses should close the back tees for certain times of highest play, I know this angers the low handicap golfers, but the truth is catering to them is one of the reasons golf is in trouble. It is as if the only ski runs available are the most challenging and everyone is using them. Most bowlers never bowl on tough lane conditions. Tried any tough dives off the high board lately? Since there is no danger people will not self regulate. Other ways are needed.

[allin]

You are of course absolutely right. But you might as well rail against our global economic system itself, since that is the driver of the relentlessly finer sifting of every facet of every experience for potential contribution to overall return on investment. I think that the era of "mass leisure" is coming to an end and that golf, skiing etc. will gradually return to their former niches as pastimes, largely, of the idle rich.

Yes but successfull business areas find ways to bring in customers at low price points for future profit. You buy a Honda fit at 26 as your first new car, a civic or accord at 32, a suv or mini van at 38, an accura at 44 and maybe a high performance model at 50. In golf it seems as if all the development has been at the luxury end of the scale and real estate development with golf courses that are expensive, and often pretty but poor courses. No politician would dare suggest a new municiple or executive course in most areas, investing in them and maintaining them so that people might actually want to play them is political suicide in most larger cities. It amazes me that in my area no one complains that softball and baseball fields, swming pools, tennis courts, soccer fields, ice skating rinks fail to turn a profit, but golf courses are expected to turn a profit every year, not possible given weather variation. I believe that it is time for companies like Nike, Titlest, Callaway etc to recognize that if they don't begin giving some seed money or contribute to foundations helping municiple courses survive than they will seriously hurt their long range growth. The publicity, goodwill, and long term growth could easily justify this. High end and championship courses should remain the province of the private sector. Hopefully private clubs and high end course are able to recognize that many of their future members and customer grow up on such courses. Right now that is not the case as they are seen as competitors. To often the business community's view of the future fails to extends much beyond the current year.

[kobalt]

its easy to complain about the courses being built now but in the end companies are building what we ask for. i am from the denver area and when i first started playing years ago all i played was your basic straight up and down munis. when the 90's hit you find that even cities were building more difficult and scenic courses because thats what the people wanted. i have about 10 different courses within a 15 mile circle of my house that offer a wide variety of course style and most of the prices are within $15 of eachother. maybe the problem is that the basic munis decided to charge what the newer courses are charging. i also use golfnow.com and golfhub,com to book most of my tee times. it is rare that i cant find a reasonable price ($45 including cart during the week) at the "nice" courses. we the consumer need to take the steps of finding a price we are willing to pay for a course. when people stop going to an over priced course they will get the hint.

[Conspirator]

As stated in the article, and many of the posts here, a big factor is the economy.  Groceries or Golf, of course my choice is Golf, but it’s not really a choice anymore.  My business has slowed down so has my cash flow, gas over $4 a gallon, yada yada, but it all comes down to I have less discretionary dollars in my pocket.  And most courses have raised their rates to meet their budgets because of the fall of players.  $50 to $70 to play what a one time would be considered a well maintained muni course.

Just at $50 on a weekday for 18 and a cart that’s $2.77 a hole.

But when you do get out to play, and I’m usually a single or a twosome, seems like always the other players want to play the tips.  And yet at best they are hitting 185 yard slices into the next fairway.  Then you have the foursomes that have to drive to each golfer’s fairway hit and then off they go to the next one as a group.  I keep a bunch of range balls in my cart; I always give them 2 warnings.  If they can’t figure out how to play quicker I just start driving range balls at them as soon as they are approaching their 2 ^nd shot.  I also keep a Louisville Slugger in the big side pouch of my bag.  And yes when these punks drive back to get in my face to kick my old 62 year old ass, the bat is a good deterrent.  But there were a few times I had to use it. Word gets around you are that crazy groups in front seem to play faster, especially when the starter warns them.  Just a few simple rules that are enforced along with adjusting fees to match up with the economy could save the game.

First the starter should give each golfer a colored card the fits in a slot in the front of the cart that is the same color for the set of tees they must use.  That could be established by your published handicap that is available at each course.  And if don’t have a handicap, which means you aren’t interested in supporting this game, you play the white tees. Most courses here are red front, white regular men, and black or gold tees for the tips.  There is a very exclusive private club that went bankrupt with this economy.  They have unlimited golf and tees for $400 a month.  But they have 6 sets of tees for each hole. It’s a nice mountain course, yet everyone still plays the tips.  For most of us the tips make par 4 into a bogey 5.  Another suggestion is no marking the ball on the green. The farthest out putts first and continues putting until he holes out.  That alone would take 45 minutes off a round of 18.

The other thing that would help slow play is getting real Marshalls on the course.  Almost all the courses have some very old fart that thinks his only job is to drive the course and wave at people.  They are too feeble or afraid to confront the slow players. Come to think of it maybe I and my friend Mr. Louisville should apply for the Marshalls job. I would guarantee you a 3 hour or less round any day of the week. No 6 foot wide holes and hand throw outs from sand traps will not improve the game it will ruin it.

Based on the rule of supply and demand we need lower fees along with enforcing the slow player rules and people will come back to the game.  I started playing at 12 at Harding Park in San Francisco, and the first day my dad took me out for my first round I was scared to death I’d ruin everybody’s day with my bad play. My Dad gave me one bit of advice as we walked to the first tee box, “It doesn’t matter to others how you play as long as you play fast and keep pace with the rest of the group.  And you’ll never make an enemy on a golf course even if I you can’t brake 120.” I still live with that advice and play my game that way, but thank God I do break 120.

[wigolffan]

if you dont want to be pushed by the group behind you, simple, play faster!!!  Im 36 with 2 kids and a wife, I love the game, and my friends and I can play 28 in 3 hours or less when the course is not full, why should a fast round be 4.5 hours?  with the norm being closer to 5.5hours  I can justify 3 hours away from the kids on a weekend, but 5 or 6 hours will drive me out of the game soon too!

[wigolffan]

Originally Posted by wigolffan

if you dont want to be pushed by the group behind you, simple, play faster!!!  Im 36 with 2 kids and a wife, I love the game, and my friends and I can play 28 in 3 hours or less when the course is not full, why should a fast round be 4.5 hours?  with the norm being closer to 5.5hours  I can justify 3 hours away from the kids on a weekend, but 5 or 6 hours will drive me out of the game soon too!

ment to say can play 18 in 3 hours

[1par2win]

Originally Posted by Conspirator

As stated in the article, and many of the posts here, a big factor is the economy.  Groceries or Golf, of course my choice is Golf, but it’s not really a choice anymore.  My business has slowed down so has my cash flow, gas over $4 a gallon, yada yada, but it all comes down to I have less discretionary dollars in my pocket.  And most courses have raised their rates to meet their budgets because of the fall of players.  $50 to $70 to play what a one time would be considered a well maintained muni course.

Just at $50 on a weekday for 18 and a cart that’s $2.77 a hole.

But when you do get out to play, and I’m usually a single or a twosome, seems like always the other players want to play the tips.  And yet at best they are hitting 185 yard slices into the next fairway.  Then you have the foursomes that have to drive to each golfer’s fairway hit and then off they go to the next one as a group.  I keep a bunch of range balls in my cart; I always give them 2 warnings.  If they can’t figure out how to play quicker I just start driving range balls at them as soon as they are approaching their 2nd shot.  I also keep a Louisville Slugger in the big side pouch of my bag.  And yes when these punks drive back to get in my face to kick my old 62 year old ass, the bat is a good deterrent.  But there were a few times I had to use it. Word gets around you are that crazy groups in front seem to play faster, especially when the starter warns them.  Just a few simple rules that are enforced along with adjusting fees to match up with the economy could save the game.

First the starter should give each golfer a colored card the fits in a slot in the front of the cart that is the same color for the set of tees they must use.  That could be established by your published handicap that is available at each course.  And if don’t have a handicap, which means you aren’t interested in supporting this game, you play the white tees. Most courses here are red front, white regular men, and black or gold tees for the tips.  There is a very exclusive private club that went bankrupt with this economy.  They have unlimited golf and tees for $400 a month.  But they have 6 sets of tees for each hole. It’s a nice mountain course, yet everyone still plays the tips.  For most of us the tips make par 4 into a bogey 5.  Another suggestion is no marking the ball on the green. The farthest out putts first and continues putting until he holes out.  That alone would take 45 minutes off a round of 18.

The other thing that would help slow play is getting real Marshalls on the course.  Almost all the courses have some very old fart that thinks his only job is to drive the course and wave at people.  They are too feeble or afraid to confront the slow players. Come to think of it maybe I and my friend Mr. Louisville should apply for the Marshalls job. I would guarantee you a 3 hour or less round any day of the week. No 6 foot wide holes and hand throw outs from sand traps will not improve the game it will ruin it.

Based on the rule of supply and demand we need lower fees along with enforcing the slow player rules and people will come back to the game.  I started playing at 12 at Harding Park in San Francisco, and the first day my dad took me out for my first round I was scared to death I’d ruin everybody’s day with my bad play. My Dad gave me one bit of advice as we walked to the first tee box, “It doesn’t matter to others how you play as long as you play fast and keep pace with the rest of the group.  And you’ll never make an enemy on a golf course even if I you can’t brake 120.” I still live with that advice and play my game that way, but thank God I do break 120.

So you admittedly hit into groups, carry a baseball bat which apparently you have wielded after someone, who funny, took exception to getting hit into, and if given the opportunity chase players around the course with said bat if they played less than 3 hours? Did I get that right?!?

[beachgolfer]

Quote:

I hate when guys play from the blues but clearly shouldn't.  Has it become a macho thing?

I think it has. I have been paired up with guys who are relieved when I tell them I play from the whites. It happens a lot. They will be warming up on the blues and when I tell them I play from the whites they say "oh, ok, ya, I guess we will too."

[Dr. Strangeclub]

Get rid of the carts and bring back the caddy shack.  Half the people out there now are just out for a cart ride with golf thrown in anyhow.  If you don't have a handicap license plate or an excuse from your doctor, walk.  A round of golf didn't take nearly as long in the 50s and 60s, when everybody walked.

[indykappa]

#1 - i did not read all 6 pages of posts (forum foul)

#2 - i have been golfing for 6 weeks, so i speak from the perspective of the "golf newcomer" that this sport is looking to attract

Golf is freakin expensive.  By many, it is viewed as an elitist sport (i'm NOT saying that it is).  Even if you buy a set of clubs for $40 like i did, you still have to pay to play.  Most courses offer twilight rates, but it's still an expensive encounter.  Before i started playing, i knew that i would need a lesson first.  I tried craigslist, and eventually learned about the GGR (Get Golf Ready) program.  I was able to get 5 lessons for $100 (AWESOME!!).  There were several other golf lessons being offered on craigslist to the tune of $100+ PER LESSON

So i think the biggest prohibitive factor is going to be the cost.

Now, i will also agree with players understanding their level of play and respecting the game enough to play from the forward tees.  This greatly affects the pace of play, and therefore affects one's level of enjoyment in the game.  But i also feel that respect goes both ways.  Just because you are not happy with the pace of play with the group in front of you, don't do/say stuff to make that group uncomfortable.  Simply asking "may we play through?" will suffice.  Again, i'm just 6 weeks into the sport, but i have seen the "golf nazi" verbally assault people.  If that was my first time out, or if i was thin-skinned, i wouldn't have wanted to return.

I love this sport, and i have not been playing very long.  I have no intentions of giving it up anytime soon.  With that said, i have been blessed financially to have the disposal income necessary to enjoy this game.  I am also not easily intimidated, so i don't fear the golf nazi encounter that will surely happen at some point (because i DO suck)

just my 2 cents