Gotta love the handicap system

[The_Pharaoh]

Originally Posted by Tomboys

Sorry, I left out some additional information.  Sure, the chances of a 15 shooting a 79 is about 1:1,000 (based on the article), so yeah, it could happen.  However, what got Mr. Masashi Yamada  noticed was that he did it (shot well below his handicap) for four consecutive days.  That's the part that made it "statistically impossible".

Ah OK, now I see what you mean! I am glad they looked into it a banned the cheat.

[Tomboys]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

lol, yes, that is a pretty big distinction.

Brandon

LOL.  That's what I get for talking on the phone (making a tee time for Sat.) and posting at the same time.

[johnny2balls]

It's simple to fix and if it happened 2 years in a row go blame your handicap committe chairman.  IF, there is indeed something that needs a fixin'.

Does your club use the GHIN system?  If so, give us the guys name.  Let's look him up. Let's see what his handicap is and let's see what he shoots in tournaments.  Easy as that.  The USGA handicap book has a very simply formula to figure out if there is a problem.  I was once my course's Handicap Chair and I went through every player in the field for that particular tournament.  A field of 72 would take me about an hour to do.  In all of the times I did it only one guy ever got on the radar using the USGA formula.  One Guy!   And you know what he was a sandbagger, so withing the USGA guidelines we adjusted his tournament handicap and all have been fine since.

[Zimmy]

May handicap seldom rises above 3, and usually falls to scratch by the end of the year.  Last year in our match play tournament I ran into a 15-handicapper who played off the senior tees.   With three holes to play he was just 5 over par,  he did blow up on the last three holes, letting me back in the match, but he closed me out on the last hole by halving the hole with a bogey after he had a tremendous shot out a greenside unmowed area.  I played one of my best rounds of the year, shooting a net 69, and still couldn't take him.

I played with him recently again in our regualr weekend group.  I hadn't played with him since last year.  He was awful.  Probably didn't break 100, let alone 90.  I hate to play the high handicapers because their games are so erratic.  You just never know what you're going to get.

[johnny2balls]

I hear ya Zimmy. I too get it being a somewhat lower cap.  But again, go to GHIN, type in his name and your state.  See what he has listed for his tournament scores then compare it to his cap.  See if there is an alarm.

Good days happen all of the time and there is not much you can do about it.  But high caps and 2+ low tournaments scores do not jive and the USGA knows it and has a formula and a fix.   Of the 500+ handicaps and tournament scores I have compared, only one guy made it onto the radar.  Way lower that I ever thought going into it.  Most people's caps and tournament scores jive, as far as sandbagging.  The vanity cap is a different story.

[saevel25]

Well if someone is holding a tourniment and asking people for there handicaps thats stupid. They really should just limit the field to those who have an official handicap.

[Doctorfro]

Well, check this.  The guy I played last year was a 17 and he beat me on the 15th hole.  At that point he was 9 over.  He posted a 90.  That means he took triple-triple-triple coming home on the last three holes (which we did not play together as I left after the match ended).  Hmmm?  This year the guy I played posted two strokes higher than what I had on the card.  I'm not going to argue with them over it nor will I go crying to the handicap committee but, if someone asks me about them I would be glad to tell what I know.  Is it really worth cheating the system?  Why can't people just play golf and post what they score (check "my scorecards" below...I post them all, good or bad.  No vanity or sandbag)?  All for some passing glory or a few bucks?  The handicap system is to make playing against each other like apples to apples.  Unfortunately, some of the apples are rotten.

[bplewis24]

The old triple-triple-triple finish after the match is conceded.  I should use that one.

Brandon

[x129]

Of course it doesn't sound like the OP knows if he went triple-triple-triple (he doesn't say he what he did, he assumes off of the score). Without knowing the exact holes and if that 90 had ESC applied, it could very well be that the guy suffers from the high handicaper problem of blow up holes. He could also be a sandbagger but you need a lot more evidence than one round of golf.

I am convinced that most peoples complaints about handicaps is that is allows the worse golfer to win which doesn't seem right. It feels like the good golfers should be winning but that pretty much defeats the purpose of handicaps.  If your playing a 50 person tournament with accurate handicaps, you need to have the round of your year to win since one of your competitors will be having the round of their year.

Originally Posted by bplewis24

The old triple-triple-triple finish after the match is conceded.  I should use that one.

Brandon

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

The old triple-triple-triple finish after the match is conceded.  I should use that one.

Brandon

Guys in my league finish out after they've conceded holes just because the order of play off the tee is based on gross team score for the hole. I think it's lame, but that's how they do it. I mean both matches finish the hole, wrt the match, then we gotta wait for two guys to finish hockey sticking their way to the cup. Super fun.

[bplewis24]

Sorry guys, I've made up my mind.  I'm using it from now on and that's all there is to it.

Incidentally, this morning during my weekly 9-hole round with a co-worker, I was +3 going into the final 2 holes and I went double-triple.  I'm almost there.

(kidding of course...it wasn't intentional).

Brandon

[mules567]

I play with 3 friends who each have 18 handicaps, I have a 9. They insist on their 18 dots instead of playing to the low. 2/3 - 3/4's of the time one of them will par. Playing skins, I have to par to push or birdie to win. I can hold my own against one of them but with the three of them tag teaming it gets a little daunting. Any suggestions? (PS- their handicaps are legit)

[iacas]

Here's one. Don't okay skins against them. That's not a great way to play with mismatched handicaps. They can collectively ham and egg you all day.

[mules567]

Thanks, maybe I can talk them into a new game. Any suggestions?

[teamroper60]

mules,

I'm an 18 and play a skins game twice a week with 3 guys whose handicaps are all around 3 or 4.    They give me 3- 4 strokes/side, dependng upon how I played in the previous round.   Some days I clean their wallets, other days I stuff them.   But it seems to work out to be pretty equitable in terms of how often I end up winning the most money and how often each of the others do.    Since you are a 9 and they are 18's, I would think you shouldn't be looking at giving them more than a couple of strokes per side..

[jmsage]

Our club kicked 2 guys out last year and chopped a bunch of guys handicaps in half. If you're a high handicapper it's possible to have a record round and shoot like net 66 or so, but if you are going lower than that you're cheating the system. I remember in a tournament we had a 20 shoot a 77 in a tourny immediately after his longtime playing partner came in and told us he is cheating. They haven't played together since.

[Fourputt]

mules,

I'm an 18 and play a skins game twice a week with 3 guys whose handicaps are all around 3 or 4.    They give me 3- 4 strokes/side, dependng upon how I played in the previous round.   Some days I clean their wallets, other days I stuff them.   But it seems to work out to be pretty equitable in terms of how often I end up winning the most money and how often each of the others do.    Since you are a 9 and they are 18's, I would think you shouldn't be looking at giving them more than a couple of strokes per side..

The thing is that your situation is opposite of Mules.  A bogey handicapper playing against 3 single digits should at least be able to hold his own, simply because he has more wiggle room for playing better than his cap than they do.  He may not win much, but he won't usually lose a lot either.

When the situation is reversed, the low capper is at a severe disadvantage with three bogey golfers who could make par (net birdie) on any hole, while there is no way he is going to birdie very many holes for ties.  His chances of actually winning any holes approaches zero when battling 3 players who are each getting 10-12 strokes.  For those stroke holes, at least one of those bogey players is going to get a half just about every time the single digit makes birdie, and he can expect no better than a tie when he makes par.   When he makes bogey, he is virtually guaranteed to lose the hole.  If he doesn't get his wins on the heads up holes, he's going to be out of luck.

[MS256]

The thing is that your situation is opposite of Mules.  A bogey handicapper playing against 3 single digits should at least be able to hold his own, simply because he has more wiggle room for playing better than his cap than they do.  He may not win much, but he won't usually lose a lot either.

When the situation is reversed, the low capper is at a severe disadvantage with three bogey golfers who could make par (net birdie) on any hole, while there is no way he is going to birdie very many holes for ties.  His chances of actually winning any holes approaches zero when battling 3 players who are each getting 10-12 strokes.  For those stroke holes, at least one of those bogey players is going to get a half just about every time the single digit makes birdie, and he can expect no better than a tie when he makes par.   When he makes bogey, he is virtually guaranteed to lose the hole.  If he doesn't get his wins on the heads up holes, he's going to be out of luck.

I used to play match play with no strokes against 3 people quite a bit better than I was and I won as much money as I lost.

Of course I might have been something of an outlier because I always made as many birdies and eagles as they did (which won me plenty of holes)...but threw in many more bogies, double bogies, and triple bogeys than they did (which was no worse in that game than losing by a stroke on the hole).

They would have all blown me out of the water in stroke play.