Green Etiquette

[boomsplash]

Here is the situation: While playing in a 2 man scramble on a par 4, we are putting for birdie from about 4 feet. Our opponents, who are probably 14 feet away putting for par. My partner and I went and stood behind the guy who was not putting, he was probably 10 feet behind his partner who was putting. Their put was on the same basic line as ours and we wanted to get a read. He blew up, complaining about us getting a read off their put and suspended play until we moved off the line.

Question: Is it unethical to read someone else's putt in this way?

I'd never heard of such. It probably didn't help that we had them down by 3 on the 4th hole.

[mdl]

I don't know what people who play in competitions think about this.  I could see especially in a skins style match (scramble or otherwise), that you'd not want your opponent to get a good read.  In the non-competition rounds I play I don't think this is a problem, but I think it is uncool to stand so close.  If I'm trying to get a read from someone putting on a line similar to mine I might go behind the player but I'll stand much further back than 10 feet.

With touchy players who might complain they can see me in their super peripheral vision, I sometimes do a thing where I go behind them but then walk away from the putting line to their back side so that can't see me at all.  Then when they hit the ball I'll walk back to the putting line to see how the ball reacts near the hole.

I don't think this would be unethical in a competition.  You hear announcers saying all the time how one player should be able to make a putt cause he got a great read from an opponent.  You can't get a super good read standing 60 feet away perpendicular to the putting line!

[goblue107501]

Here is the situation: While playing in a 2 man scramble on a par 4, we are putting for birdie from about 4 feet. Our opponents, who are probably 14 feet away putting for par. My partner and I went and stood behind the guy who was not putting, he was probably 10 feet behind his partner who was putting. Their put was on the same basic line as ours and we wanted to get a read. He blew up, complaining about us getting a read off their put and suspended play until we moved off the line.

Question: Is it unethical to read someone else's putt in this way?

I'd never heard of such. It probably didn't help that we had them down by 3 on the 4th hole.

IMO, Yes. It wouldn't bother me much, especially if I was ahead, I definately wouldn't blow up. I don't think it has ever come up though. I think most golfers know not to stand there, I know I have never done it, and I have played plenty of scrambles. I know plenty of people who this would bother. If you want to get a read, the proper way to do it is this. Imagine that the player is putting to 12 o'clock (assuming a righty). Stand behind them at the 8 or 9 position well behind them and out of sight range, then after they hit, take a couple of steps to 6 or 7 and get a look that way. Or stand past the hole a bit at 9 or 10 then take a few steps to 11 or 12 after the hit. It's okay to get a look at the line, you just don't want to be obvious about it.

[boomsplash]

Well, I stand (obviously in the wrong spot) corrected. Since I already appoligized at the 19th hole for offending him, I will let it die. I'll use the ploys suggested and just try to be a little more sneaky. Thanks for setting me straight.

[deasy55]

I would never stand behind a player to see the line. If someone was standing right behind me watching my line I would ask them to move as I would be conscious of them being there. Just walk in after he has putted to see the line.

[zeg]

You may want to point out to your opponent that if his partner was on the line while he putted, he'd already lost the hole:

14-2. Assistance

In making a stroke, a player must not:

a. Accept physical assistance or protection from the elements; or
b. Allow his caddie, his partner or his partner 's caddie to position himself on or close to an extension of the line of play or the line of putt behind the ball.

Personally, I would not stand on his line, but there is no reason whatsoever not to stand near to it and step onto it when the ball is rolling and get the read.  That is a benefit you enjoy for being closer to the hole.

[lumpuckeroo]

If you notice on Tour they will stand at the side of the them and as soon as the putt is hit, quickly walk in behind to watch the break. That would probably be the preferred method to read an opponents putt.

[ghalfaire]

I agree with this.  I don't like anyone standing in my putting line behind me, or on the through line, when I'm putting.   As pointed out a partner or caddie are prohibited from doing so and I think it poor etiquette for anyone to.

Originally Posted by lumpuckeroo

If you notice on Tour they will stand at the side of the them and as soon as the putt is hit, quickly walk in behind to watch the break. That would probably be the preferred method to read an opponents putt.

[Ignorant]

Originally Posted by ghalfaire

I agree with this.  I don't like anyone standing in my putting line behind me, or on the through line, when I'm putting.   As pointed out a partner or caddie are prohibited from doing so and I think it poor etiquette for anyone to.

Precisely. There is no Rule against it but it is one of those gentlemen's agreements in golf.

Then again, one could be standing 10 or 15 meters behind the ball (or behind the hole) as that would certainly not disturb the player in turn.

[1par2win]

I personally don't mind if someone is looking down the line at my putt as long as they are not too close but I would never do that to someone else. Besides, I get a better look at my putt when observing the pace of a putt by standing off to the side about halfway between the player and the hole and watching for anything "goofy" around the hole. It irritates me a heck of a lot more when someone jumps in my line to watch the break and I can't see the break as my ball passes the hole. But that's pretty rare and I have other issues I should be more concerned about than that!

[iacas]

Originally Posted by zeg

You may want to point out to your opponent that if his partner was on the line while he putted, he'd already lost the hole:

Though I disagree with this (I'm in a small minority), I think the common understanding is that since a "scramble" isn't really golf anyway - it's not a recognized form of play - the rules about standing on the line of your partner don't really apply.

As others said it's an etiquette thing, and it's even in the Etiquette section of the Rules of Golf:

Players should not stand close to or directly behind the ball, or directly behind the hole, when a player is about to play.

On the Putting Green

On the putting green, players should not stand on another player's line of putt or, when he is making a stroke, cast a shadow over his line of putt.

[ghalfaire]

At tournaments I have played in that included scramble (selective shot) format, often the rules sheet includes the statement that rule 14-2b is suspended for the scramble format rounds.

Originally Posted by iacas

Though I disagree with this (I'm in a small minority), I think the common understanding is that since a "scramble" isn't really golf anyway - it's not a recognized form of play - the rules about standing on the line of your partner don't really apply.

As others said it's an etiquette thing, and it's even in the Etiquette section of the Rules of Golf:

[djackson89]

I picked up a single with our 3 some the other day and he did this to the extreme. He would literally stand or even crouch 2-3 behind me if I was putting and he was trying to read. I kid you not if I were to take my putter back like a real swing it would have hit him. I didn't really know the guy so I didn't say much other than "little close man" and he back up about a foot. It really bothered me, nice to know there's actually a rule against it...I usually do the off to the side walk in behind after they hit it movement.

[Ignorant]

Originally Posted by djackson89

I picked up a single with our 3 some the other day and he did this to the extreme. He would literally stand or even crouch 2-3 behind me if I was putting and he was trying to read. I kid you not if I were to take my putter back like a real swing it would have hit him. I didn't really know the guy so I didn't say much other than "little close man" and he back up about a foot. It really bothered me, nice to know there's actually a rule against it...I usually do the off to the side walk in behind after they hit it movement.

You may have missed something here as there is NO rule against it, only Etiquette, which of course should be paid hee to as well.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Ignorant

You may have missed something here as there is NO rule against it, only Etiquette, which of course should be paid hee to as well.

There's also no rule against him starting his putting routine over by backing up into the crouching guy then asking him to go stand somewhere other on his line of putt. Even the quickly walking over after contact is lame. Do people think the person putting doesn't sense them waiting on their haunches for impact so they can run over? How important are these putts that watching from the side isn't sufficient.

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

There's also no rule against him starting his putting routine over by backing up into the crouching guy then asking him to go stand somewhere other on his line of putt. Even the quickly walking over after contact is lame. Do people think the person putting doesn't sense them waiting on their haunches for impact so they can run over? How important are these putts that watching from the side isn't sufficient.

To people who are by nature very competitive - not necessarily against other people but in the pursuit of their own personal best - they are all *very* important.  People who think it's "lame" to quickly walk over (not run over, never seen that and doubt you have either) to get a read, or are stressed out because they know someone is going to walk (not run) over to get a read as soon as they hit a putt, are thankfully rare, IME.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

To people who are by nature very competitive - not necessarily against other people but in the pursuit of their own personal best - they are all *very* important.  People who think it's "lame" to quickly walk over (not run over, never seen that and doubt you have either) to get a read, or are stressed out because they know someone is going to walk (not run) over to get a read as soon as they hit a putt, are thankfully rare, IME.

They're probably not as rare as you think. Some people have a higher pain threshold while biting their tongue.

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

They're probably not as rare as you think. Some people have a higher pain threshold while biting their tongue.

Ok, then I'll put it this way: If someone is stressed out about me walking over to get a read after their putt is on its way, I really don't care.  It's accepted etiquette, it's unreasonable for anyone to be stressed by it, and we all can't be expected to go through life walking on eggshells for fear that performing a common, accepted practice might bother or offend someone, when no sane, rational person *would* be bothered or offended by it.  If they *are* that bothered by it, the onus is on them to tell me, in which case I will apologize and never do it again. Unless I'm putting for eagle.