Joe Paterno and Penn State

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Kapanda

So is not reporting unsolicited facts the same as doing something like destroying evidence to ensure facts are not discovered?

Not really meaning to gang up on you, but yes, it is exactly the same.  Had he reported it on more than one occasion, he could have prevented more rapes ... and he would have had to be extremely dense to have not realized that, in my opinion.

[Kapanda]

I'm internalising what you guys are saying, but I am finding it hard to equate someone just not telling - like, if I see a burglary take place and don't report it - and someone attempting to make sure facts remain unknown - like the burglars intimidating witnesses.

On a more relevant note, I read a comment on b/r that Joe Pa actually told someone not to go to the cops. That certainly amounts to a cover-up.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Kapanda

I'm internalising what you guys are saying, but I am finding it hard to equate someone just not telling - like, if I see a burglary take place and don't report it - and someone attempting to make sure facts remain unknown - like the burglars intimidating witnesses.

On a more relevant note, I read a comment on b/r that Joe Pa actually told someone not to go to the cops. That certainly amounts to a cover-up.

OK, now what if the burglars are people you are acquainted with and you know if you don't report it, they will probably do it again?  Oh, and each time they rob a bank they also rape a child.

See the difference?

[newtogolf]

Paterno is one of many that need to be assigned blame.  The Freeh report seems to indicate that the football coaches, PSU administration, the board of trustees and possibly even the police department, district attorney's office and PA governors all played a part in the cover up.   While it's easy to assign blame to the dead guy, I find it difficult to believe that Paterno alone could strong arm the college admin, trustees, police dept and DA office, this reeks of a political coverup that includes former and current Governors Rendell and Corbett.  Corbett's campaign was partially financed by Sandusky's Second Mile Charity.

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Not really meaning to gang up on you, but yes, it is exactly the same.  Had he reported it on more than one occasion, he could have prevented more rapes ... and he would have had to be extremely dense to have not realized that, in my opinion.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Paterno is one of many that need to be assigned blame.  The Freeh report seems to indicate that the football coaches, PSU administration, the board of trustees and possibly even the police department, district attorney's office and PA governors all played a part in the cover up.   While it's easy to assign blame to the dead guy, I find it difficult to believe that Paterno alone could strong arm the college admin, trustees, police dept and DA office, this reeks of a political coverup that includes former and current Governors Rendell and Corbett.  Corbett's campaign was partially financed by Sandusky's Second Mile Charity.

Totally ... in fact I almost made a comment about my use of the word "he" instead of "they" but since he's the face of the program and the one whose statue and stadium name we are talking about I left it alone.  But they all share that blame.

[newtogolf]

Exactly, he's the face of the program, he's the guy they built and dedicated a statue to, and he's also the guy that can't dispute what's said or not said about him because he's dead.  Everyone involved needs to answer for their involvement in covering for Sandusky, Paterno shouldn't take the fall for all of them.  If Sandusky has any conscience he should come forward and point the finger at all involved that enabled him to continue to molest and rape young boys while he was associated with PSU.

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Totally ... in fact I almost made a comment about my use of the word "he" instead of "they" but since he's the face of the program and the one whose statue and stadium name we are talking about I left it alone.  But they all share that blame.

[Kapanda]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

OK, now what if the burglars are people you are acquainted with and you know if you don't report it, they will probably do it again?  Oh, and each time they rob a bank they also rape a child.

See the difference?

The difference I see is in the gravity and level of responsibility, not in the nature of the act. If I then told my friends, who also found out about this, not to go to the police with it, then I see the case for a cover-up charge.

And to make things clear, by not coming out with it, Pa did something terrible. I agree that he bears a huge burden in this case. And if he did in fact tell others not to come out with it, then he is guilty of a cover-up.

[Kapanda]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ4gZUJN4-c&feature;=player_embedded

Jay Paterno would obviously be biased. But he does make valid points.

These cases tend to cause knee-jerk reactions, so it is always necessary to aim for calmness and neutrality - and thank goodness for judicial processes.

[clubchamp]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Paterno is one of many that need to be assigned blame.  The Freeh report seems to indicate that the football coaches, PSU administration, the board of trustees and possibly even the police department, district attorney's office and PA governors all played a part in the cover up.   While it's easy to assign blame to the dead guy, I find it difficult to believe that Paterno alone could strong arm the college admin, trustees, police dept and DA office, this reeks of a political coverup that includes former and current Governors Rendell and Corbett.  Corbett's campaign was partially financed by Sandusky's Second Mile Charity.

Paterno would have been able to strong arm a lot of people in powerful places he was viewed as highly as a governor in the state of PA especially in central PA. Blaming Corbett is a bit of a reach considering I believe it was Corbett who started investigating the whole thing when he was attorney general. I guess you could say Corbett could have had him arrested sooner if he had enough evidence. Looking at the Freeh blurbs I've had the chance to read Paterno had a lot to do with covering it up but blaming him entirely would be wrong. Anyone of the PSU staff that was in on the cover up could have come out but decided to go along with the cover up. It's a real shame that Paterno builds an amazing legacy and this is how he goes out.

[bwdial]

Originally Posted by Kapanda

The difference I see is in the gravity and level of responsibility, not in the nature of the act. If I then told my friends, who also found out about this, not to go to the police with it, then I see the case for a cover-up charge.

And to make things clear, by not coming out with it, Pa did something terrible. I agree that he bears a huge burden in this case. And if he did in fact tell others not to come out with it, then he is guilty of a cover-up.

Obstructing justice is obstructing justice.  From what I understand, Paterno, Gurley, Schultz and Spanier were all bound by Pennsylvania law to report the sexual abuse to the proper authorities, period.  In that regard, they are all guilty.  On top of that, Gurley and Schultz are under indictment for lying to a grand jury about the situation.

[Mr3Wiggle]

What really gets me is, After McQueary saw the kid getting molested in the shower and reported it to Paterno.  Paterno then went and "reported" it up the chain.  The result of which was a meeting between McQueary and PSU higher-ups.  After which the decision was made for everyone to keep their mouths shut.  I mean this screams cover-up.  My intuition tells me Paterno ran to the AD/Univ Pres and said, "we have a big problem, someone knows about Sandusky".  After which the AD/Pres said, "well bring him here, we gotta shut him up".

[Mr3Wiggle]

Originally Posted by bwdial

Obstructing justice is obstructing justice.  From what I understand, Paterno, Gurley, Schultz and Spanier were all bound by Pennsylvania law to report the sexual abuse to the proper authorities, period.  In that regard, they are all guilty.  On top of that, Gurley and Schultz are under indictment for lying to a grand jury about the situation.

They should make an example of this school and pull the federal financial aid programs.  It would result in a massive drop in attendance.  I know it penalizes kids that had nothing to do with it, but something has to be done.  Maybe help the kids that can't go to school without financial aid find suitable transfers to other schools.

[bwdial]

Originally Posted by Kapanda

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ4gZUJN4-c&feature;=player_embedded

Jay Paterno would obviously be biased. But he does make valid points.

These cases tend to cause knee-jerk reactions, so it is always necessary to aim for calmness and neutrality - and thank goodness for judicial processes.

I'm not sure that I'd call them "valid points".  JoePa "missed" things that people who are trained to catch "missed" isn't what happened.  JoePa swept things under the rug.  It is quite clear that he and the administration conspired to conceal what Sandusky was doing for nearly a decade and a half.  That's what the Board of Trustees copped to yesterday.  As for the judicial process, don't worry, it's coming like a freight train.  Now that the BoT has admitted culpability by allowing it to happen on their collective watch, I would imagine that every young man that was ever involved with The Second Mile will be lining up to sue.

Jay Paterno's statements are simply desperate damage control, which if you think about it, is why they are in this mess to begin with.

[Mr3Wiggle]

Over at MSNBC they are saying Paterno could have been indicted if he were still alive.  Based on the Freeh investigation's findings.

[Kapanda]

Originally Posted by Mr3Wiggle

What really gets me is, After McQueary saw the kid getting molested in the shower and reported it to Paterno.  Paterno then went and "reported" it up the chain.  The result of which was a meeting between McQueary and PSU higher-ups.  After which the decision was made for everyone to keep their mouths shut.  I mean this screams cover-up.  My intuition tells me Paterno ran to the AD/Univ Pres and said, "we have a big problem, someone knows about Sandusky".  After which the AD/Pres said, "well bring him here, we gotta shut him up".

Originally Posted by bwdial

I'm not sure that I'd call them "valid points".  JoePa "missed" things that people who are trained to catch "missed" isn't what happened.  JoePa swept things under the rug.  It is quite clear that he and the administration conspired to conceal what Sandusky was doing for nearly a decade and a half.  That's what the Board of Trustees copped to yesterday.  As for the judicial process, don't worry, it's coming like a freight train.  Now that the BoT has admitted culpability by allowing it to happen on their collective watch, I would imagine that every young man that was ever involved with The Second Mile will be lining up to sue.

Jay Paterno's statements are simply desperate damage control, which if you think about it, is why they are in this mess to begin with.

This is the sort of stuff Jay was aiming at. There is nothing to conclude beyond reasonable doubt that Joe was proactively trying to ensure that things were kept under the rug. It is conclusive that he did not do enough, and he should have approached legal authorities (by that I mean cops) at various points since 98, but beyond that there is a lot of inferring being done.

This does not say that the common conclusion is incorrect, it simply says that it is at best premature.

I doubt that there will be an investigation much more thorough than this one though.

[newtogolf]

I understand Paterno had a great deal of power in PA, but that doesn't explain why Corbett would take campaign contributions and allow a suspected child molester to host a campaign fund raiser on his behalf.   Also there's the D.A. Gricar that disappeared while investigating Sandusky.  There was a lot of cover up and looking the other way for it just to be fear of Paterno.

Originally Posted by clubchamp

Paterno would have been able to strong arm a lot of people in powerful places he was viewed as highly as a governor in the state of PA especially in central PA. Blaming Corbett is a bit of a reach considering I believe it was Corbett who started investigating the whole thing when he was attorney general. I guess you could say Corbett could have had him arrested sooner if he had enough evidence. Looking at the Freeh blurbs I've had the chance to read Paterno had a lot to do with covering it up but blaming him entirely would be wrong. Anyone of the PSU staff that was in on the cover up could have come out but decided to go along with the cover up. It's a real shame that Paterno builds an amazing legacy and this is how he goes out.

[bwdial]

Originally Posted by Kapanda

This is the sort of stuff Jay was aiming at. There is nothing to conclude beyond reasonable doubt that Joe was proactively trying to ensure that things were kept under the rug. It is conclusive that he did not do enough, and he should have approached legal authorities (by that I mean cops) at various points since 98, but beyond that there is a lot of inferring being done.

This does not say that the common conclusion is incorrect, it simply says that it is at best premature.

I doubt that there will be an investigation much more thorough than this one though.

A 267 page report compiled by the former Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation isn't exactly "inferring".

[Mr3Wiggle]

I just read some comments on the Penn State Facebook page.  Disgusting comments going back and forth from both sides.  The anti-PSU crowd blasting everything, going as far as saying how PSU football stinks now, so who cares.  From the other side there are some PSU alums posting idiotic comments about how people need to leave the school alone so the Penn State community can heal.  Are you kidding me?

I've been fairly disgusted by how a number of the dumber PSU faithful have tried to make PSU and Paterno out to be the victims.  Everything from the candlelight vigil out front of Paterno's house to saying the man's whole life needs to be taken into account, not just the fact that he allowed the sexual assault of children for over a decade.  Reminds me of the old saying about how Mussolini made the trains run on time, how bad could he have been?