Where do you place the most value in your golf game?

[DeanS]

My last game I shot an 89 ( 2 over my handicap). Had 7 pars (5 from GIR's), hit 6 GIR's, shot 5 bogey's, 6 double's and had 36 putts. Looking at my errors I figure I lost 3 stokes to tee shots, 2 to long irons, 2 to chipping (which could have been much better) and 4 to putting. I'm feeling confident with my short game and noticed that I'm a lot more comfortable hitting into the green as a result. Where as my chipping suffered because I didn't have the same confidence in my putting. I'll be working on my putting next.

[x129]

You are answering a different question. I know a lot of people who have done the 3 club challenge and a lot of them leave the putter out. Doesn't mean the putter isn't very important in a normal round.

Originally Posted by newtogolf

They might be the three most important to you given your ability and the course you play.  If I had to just pick three to play a round I'm not sure I'd take those.  Instead I'd probably go with a 3 wood, scoring iron (7i - 9i) and putter.  I could make the case that a 3w is the better choice for a high handicapper playing on a shorter course or one with narrow fairways, plus it gives you the ability to hit it off the turf which is important on long Par 4's or 5's.  If I can get within 150 yards of the green which I try to do I will usually land somewhere on the green with my 7i - 9i.  My wedges come more into play (except PW which I treat more as a 10i) when I miss the green so the wedges are to recover from mistakes for me at this point not clubs I plan to play as part of my strategy.

[Gioguy21]

Originally Posted by x129

You are answering a different question. I know a lot of people who have done the 3 club challenge and a lot of them leave the putter out. Doesn't mean the putter isn't very important in a normal round.

agreed...i'd take my 3h, 7i and 54 wedge...

choke up an inch on the wedge for putting. you only get one shot when you bring your putter (less you hit a texas wedge from the fairway)...wedge adds sand shots, flops, chips, pitches...

[newtogolf]

I guess my point wasn't clear.  The point I was trying to make is that the 3 most important clubs are personal not universal or what I'd take in a 3 club challenge.  If I'm playing a shorter course or one with narrow fairways (my home course)  I won't be swinging my driver.  Wedges (not PW) factor minimally into my strategy except to recover from poor swings with my irons where I need to make an up and down.  I'm try to not leave myself shots shorter than 75 yards into a green.  We all need to putt so I agree with the importance of the putter.

Originally Posted by x129

You are answering a different question. I know a lot of people who have done the 3 club challenge and a lot of them leave the putter out. Doesn't mean the putter isn't very important in a normal round.

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

I guess my point wasn't clear.  The point I was trying to make is that the 3 most important clubs are personal not universal or what I'd take in a 3 club challenge.  If I'm playing a shorter course or one with narrow fairways (my home course)  I won't be swinging my driver.  Wedges (not PW) factor minimally into my strategy except to recover from poor swings with my irons where I need to make an up and down.  I'm try to not leave myself shots shorter than 75 yards into a green.  We all need to putt so I agree with the importance of the putter.

And my comment about Putter/Driver/Wedge being the three most important clubs was sort of a generic, all things being equal statement. Obviously, if you're playing a short tight course Driver is less important...my statement wasn't meant for specific situations. They are, generally speaking, the clubs that are most vital to scoring, imo.

That statement can be parsed to death, and I have noticed on this board that tends to happen - 'Not true! My course is short' or whatever. But answer this - name a club more important than those three. Not to your specific skill level or to the specific course you play regularly, but the basics of the game, which is, get the ball in play, get it near the hole, get it in the hole.

[newtogolf]

I wasn't trying to parse your statement to death but what seems like an obvious generality to you isn't always obvious to others.   To a pro or low handicapper driver is probably a key club.  To a high handicapper I'd argue the 3 wood is just as important or more important as it doesn't cost them as much distance off the tee and they will likely need to hit it off the deck on long par 4's and 5's.

Originally Posted by zipazoid

That statement can be parsed to death, and I have noticed on this board that tends to happen - 'Not true! My course is short' or whatever. But answer this - name a club more important than those three. Not to your specific skill level or to the specific course you play regularly, but the basics of the game, which is, get the ball in play, get it near the hole, get it in the hole.

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

I wasn't trying to parse your statement to death but what seems like an obvious generality to you isn't always obvious to others.   To a pro or low handicapper driver is probably a key club.  To a high handicapper I'd argue the 3 wood is just as important or more important as it doesn't cost them as much distance off the tee and they will likely need to hit it off the deck on long par 4's and 5's.

Well, that's why I'm here. To state obvious things that may not be so obvious to others.

Re 3-wood over Driver, okay. I get that a higher-handicapper may favor 3-wood off the tee, so in that player's example, substitute 3-wood for Driver.

But I betcha they won't become a low handicapper until they learn how to hit Driver.

[x129]

Here is another thing to think about. The clubs that are the most important are not always the ones you need to be practicing the most. For example if you are driving the ball 300 yards within 5% of where you are aiming, that probably isn't where you should spent much time no matter how important. You just aren't likely to improve much. That sand shot that happens once a round might be a lot more important if you are always losing a stroke getting out.

Originally Posted by newtogolf

I guess my point wasn't clear.  The point I was trying to make is that the 3 most important clubs are personal not universal or what I'd take in a 3 club challenge.  If I'm playing a shorter course or one with narrow fairways (my home course)  I won't be swinging my driver.  Wedges (not PW) factor minimally into my strategy except to recover from poor swings with my irons where I need to make an up and down.  I'm try to not leave myself shots shorter than 75 yards into a green.  We all need to putt so I agree with the importance of the putter.

[newtogolf]

Agreed, unfortunately the shots you tend to have problems with on the course are the ones that are toughest to practice.  Sand shots, awkward lies, and shots out of deep rough aren't easy to simulate and practice.  I try to use course management to get me within 75 - 125 yards of the green on Par 4's and 5's which is the strongest part of my game.  I don't hit the half sand wedges or 60* lobs consistently enough yet which is probably my weakest area along with those shots I mentioned above.  Putting was also a problem but I've been practicing that just about every night and with the help of the iPing app I've seen pretty significant improvement.

Originally Posted by x129

Here is another thing to think about. The clubs that are the most important are not always the ones you need to be practicing the most. For example if you are driving the ball 300 yards within 5% of where you are aiming, that probably isn't where you should spent much time no matter how important. You just aren't likely to improve much. That sand shot that happens once a round might be a lot more important if you are always losing a stroke getting out.

[Jmdmbike]

The old "you take the most strokes with your putter" adage is played out, I believe.  Yes, you may take more strokes with your putter than any other INDIVIDUAL club, but if you shoot 90 with 30 putts, you took 60 strokes with something that ISN'T a putter.  Let's just imagine you are a dead-eye putter, but you can't keep your drive in same zip code, and can't hit an approach shot into a swimming pool.  That dead-eye putter will - AT BEST - be trying to save your par, but will very likely end up putting out for bogeys or worse, depending on exactly how much trouble you got into along the way.

On the other hand, if you can keep your tee shots reasonably in play (by that, I mean, you can hit a respectable distance and avoid hazards/jailing yourself), and can hit approach shots that find their way somewhere resembling on/around the green, I would argue you will VERY frequently putt for par, and if you're not a great putter, still kick in a lot of bogies, and pars and bogies puts you in the 80s.  If your short game is very poor, and those approaches that miss greens are leading to your duffing chips or skulling pitch shots, or your first putt from 30 feet is consistently leading to three putts, I would contend I could much more easily fix that, and get you making up-and-downs and eliminating three-putts, much more easily than I could figure out how to reign your driver in, or teach you to hit solid 5-irons.

Let's view it another way: who has ever played with a "great" player, by amateur standards, anyway (let's just say a low single digit)?  Did the guy spray it all over, only to recover and make sick up-and-downs, or make a lot of putts?  I feel like, the better players I've played with, often, I feel like they weren't dead-eye putters, or miraculous short-gamers.  But, when you're on in two (and it's not always the case that they're on in two from a bombed drive or laser-like approach; you can get on in two with just "good" shots), you can just make an 'average two-putt' and walk away with par.  Yeah, they'd make quite a few up and downs, but sometimes not and make a few bogeys, but then they generally grab a birdie or two, and they end up +3, or +4 for the day.  If I look at that and say, well, what's most remarkable in terms of their physical ability, in terms of what would I tell you would require more practice, it's not how do you bump and run a ball ten yards toward the hole with a swing arc of 2 feet, it's not how do you manage to tap a ball with a flat-faced stick so that it rolls straight, it's how do you swing a club around a full arc around your body so that it flies anywhere from 275 to 150 yards in the proper direction a predictable distance.  That's what I would tell you is the "minimum requirement for entry" into the "good player's club" and what the average amateur should spend his time on.  If you can chip and pitch it close and make a bunch of 10-20 footers to boot, then you're in the elite club, but if a deadly short game with a lousy full-swing game will never be a great player, maybe not even ever a good player.

Makes sense. Whenever I've shot a particularly good round and all my lower rounds, I don't recall if I putted or chipped way better than normal, or if I was hitting the ball farther than normal, but it always seems on those days that my ball striking is better than normal and I keep it in play, reducing or even eliminating penalty strokes on a few occasions. Solid long game just leads to more chances for pars, and keeping it in play while hitting it a reasonable distance, takes a lot of pressure off the short game.

[sonicblue]

You're saying the majority of your 22-handicap strokes come from around the green?  I guess that's really just 1, occasionally 2, shots per hole, but if I got hooked up with someone who told me they were a 22, I would expect a whole lot of spray from tee-to-green.

I know there's the school of 'learn the game backwards, green to tee,' but I think that's more in terms of constructing the golf swing, learning the fine motor movements, and then just extending that into a longer version.  However, I envision playing the game tee-to-green, and it's like that adage, you can't win it with your drive, but you sure can lose it with your drive.  You need to start with the first shot: can you hit a tee ball solidly and in control?  If that goes off the rails, par is immediately in jeopardy; hit a good (not awesome, just good) drive, and birdie is still in play.  Then, can you hit an approach shot - 175, 150, 125 yards - to a green?  If your 7-iron may go 15 yards short or 20 yards long, or right or left, with equal probability, again, par is in jeopardy.  If you can confidently hit the green, anywhere on the green, or just hit it close greenside, your birdie is still in play, and par is very achievable.  Find bunkers, creeks, nasty rough, etc..., and birdie's gone, par's a struggle and big numbers are on the horizon.  That last part, about birdie in play even if you're just greenside, I say because I believe someone can be taught a "good" short game pretty easily.  I can't make you Seve in a week's time, but I can absolutely get someone to never duff a chip and get just about anything out of its lie, and toward the hole with some decent distance control.  If you do that and get yourself a 6-8-something-footer to save a par, I think that's a good short game.  I also think a player can be made into a decent putter, so that they make a bunch of those, or at the very least, never ever 3-putt them.  The above adds up to a player who, will frequently get a FH, GIR, 2-putt par, get a bunch of near-FH, near-GIR, up-down for par, near-FH, near-GIR bogey, but maybe grab a birdie or two as well, and maybe a double here and there.  That looks like a single digit to me.

I had quite a long period where my long game was erratic, and my short game was money. Let me tell you, it's an EXHAUSTING way to play the game.  I was scoring quite well, actually, but only because the course I was often playing was 1) short, 2) very forgiving for most tee shots), and 3) I knew it like the back of my hand.  If I played elsewhere, or if caught a few bad breaks, or the short game wasn't SUPER good that day, the score ran up quickly.  Something I realized, too, was, I was NEVER in the game for birdie.  My course management led me to make good decisions, and fight to stay in the hole.  I learned a lot of punch-out techniques, and it led to a LOT of par-saving putts, and when I was on, made quite a few, but a lot of times, I was "miss par save, kick in bogey."  Throw in a OB here and there, and my card was: several pars, a lot of those near-miss-par bogies, and then a handful of doubles, maybe worse sometimes.  But because of my bad long game, I knew that, every bogey or double was a shot I'd never get back, because birdie just wasn't even an option the way I played.

I started working very hard on my full swing, started getting control off the tee and hitting better approach shots.  It's only "ok," in all honesty.  I occasionally hit big drives, but generally I'm only average-long (i.e., I don't dink it out 225 with a driver, I can hit it 260+, but rarely push the 280-290+ arena).  My approach shots now are not pure, but no big pulls, or cuts, or thin-lizzies.  I just hit it mostly on line and usually a decent distance.  My short game has suffered from the lack of practice, but I continued to score pretty well.  I don't get a ton of 8-foot birdie looks, but I may get a few 25-foot looks (better than none!).  If I don't hit a green, I at least get a handful of birdie chips that are makeable, or at least can be gotten close.  More than anything, the game is just much more 'playable' this way, and now if my short game tunes up to how it was before, I can get to low single digits.

[sean_miller]

My strengths are strengths because I’ve played and practiced enough over the years to know what works for me. This is a combination of technique, experience and natural ability (I’m about average but some people are just simply not athletic). Confidence plays a role. To get my swing on track so that impact is consistent doesn’t require a lot of practice. To maintain a decent level of play requires staying in shape and practicing touch and focus. I can get just as much out of a practice round as a range session, as long as it’s an unhurried solo practice round. That’s not always possible so hitting the range is important too. The nice thing about the range is when working on long shots (e.g. driver, long irons, etc,) you don’t have to fetch the ball after errant shots. I’ve worked on my long game enough that after a bad shot I know what to do next time. An OB tee shot is always a risk when you swing hard, but they’re fewer and far between these days.

When I shoot a good score (for me) because of chipping close and making putts, I feel good about that round. I didn’t leave too many strokes out there. If I shoot the same score that includes more than one 3-putt par (it’s happened more times than I can count) a couple 3-putt bogeys and countless missed birdie chances, then I feel like garbage. I’m happy with my chipping in general, but I need to make more putts.

[BuckeyeNut]

short game, chipping, putting.......................

anyone who says anything different has a screw loose..........

[Jmdmbike]

[quote name="BuckeyeNut" url="/t/54591/where-do-you-place-the-most-value-in-your-golf-game/54#post_669503"]

short game, chipping, putting.......................

anyone who says anything different has a screw loose..........

[/quot Not sure about that. Sonicblue's posts on this topic make a lot of sense. Guess it depends. If you can't get off the tee or hit it close to your target, you're not gonna score.

[par4me]

I really try to work on iron shots and inside 125 yards.  My driver is usually pretty straight, but my irons seem to fail me more than anything else.  If I had to put percentages on it, I would say: 10% driving, 30% irons, 40% inside 125 yards, 10% around the green and 10% putting.

[sonicblue]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeNut

short game, chipping, putting.......................

anyone who says anything different has a screw loose..........

If you want to get into SERIOUS scoring territory, there is NO question, short game is where the difference is made.  My argument is, most amateur golfers are poor golfers.  That's a fact.  There are a metric TON of people out there who can't break 110, or 100.  Yes, those people waste a ton of strokes around the green, but they also traverse a hell of a lot of acreage before they even get to the green.  I think, in terms of pure "value," for my game, it has to start with ability to keep yourself in play off the tee and on your approach.  Those shots are where you risk hitting hazards, taking penalties, making big numbers.  When a ball has 175, 200, 250 yards to cover, a LOT can happen.  A solid, repeatable, true swing is necessary to control those outcomes, and that's where I think most of us would say we struggle.  Once you get to 100 yards and in (let's say 50 or less, I think only pros aim for 'deadly' at 100 yards), I believe skill in that area is simply a matter of getting out of your head; the mechanics and physics are no longer so overwhelming.  You can't pull-hook a half-wedge, or banana slice it.  Sure, you can blade it or chunk it, but - I believe - those are ALWAYS simple mental mistakes.  I absolutely guarantee I could teach someone a "very good" short game, from a variety of lies, long before I could get them puring 6-irons 175 yards.  I've actually done it.

On a golf trip with some buddies, one guy was about a 110 guy.  The usual type of full swing flaws, would find lots of hazards, bunkers, topper-screamer irons, etc...  I spent five minutes at the practice green, and gave him some basic tips on simplifying greenside short game shots.  He told me after that he absolutely was much better around the greens that day.  Now, I doubt he was holing out or anything, but he got tangible - for him - results after five minutes.  He was still probably taking those shots at (for a par 4, let's say) his 4th or 5th shot or even 6th, though.  Imagine the improvement in his score if his first chip is his 3rd shot.  It'd be much more than five minutes to figure out how to get him to stop slicing a 200 yard drive, and hitting a straight 250-yd drive, and then stop skulling from the fairway and hitting 7-8 irons consistently straight and repeatable distance.

My last perspective would be, and I'll say "usually" a bit carefully, but usually, a bad short game doesn't lead to additional trouble.  That is, a tee shot can lead to a creek, or a hazard, or OB.  A bladed iron can go in the water, or hit a tree and carom OB, etc...  If you flub a greenside pitch, often, you'll just have another greenside pitch.  Duff a bunker shot, still in the bunker.  Yes, they all count as 'one,' but your variability just isn't that great around the green.  Sure, you could blade it out of a trap, over the green and into water, it's not without risk all the time, but it's just much less.  When it comes down to it, even a pro will tell you, what's their priority: fairways and greens, fairways and greens.  Take care of that, you remove lots of bad scenarios, and unless your short game is horr.if.ic, you will be better than just about any golfer you'll get paired up with on the first tee.  You can have a mad skills short game, but if you're playing the military left-right-left style game tee to green, I'll wager you'll probably be stuck at a 15-handicap at best for a long time.

[Chief Broom]

Anyone can putt.  They may not be able to putt well but the mechanics of putting are simple and intuitive.  One of the strongest arguments and central tenets of the Stack and Tilt swing is how the full swing is a mechanical process and that all good strikers of the ball incorporate the same basic mechanics.  We may all look different doing it but all good swings share key positions as the club is being swung and the ball is being struck.  Putting on the other hand doesn't rely on mechanics to that same extent.  You can putt well swinging the club with only your wrists; you can putt well using a long putter you anchor under your chin with one hand and swinging with the other; you can putt well swinging the putter like a pendulum straight back and straight through or swinging it on an arc; you can putt well with very little back swing and follow through and inversely you can putt well with an exaggerated back swing and follow through..  Millions of people, novices even, have been able to make their way around a putting course in semi-respectable fashion with no prior experience simply through imitation and intuition.  Put the other clubs in that same novice's hands, and unless that person is naturally gifted, they will have a much harder time attempting to play their way around the course.  This reality doesn't take away from the importance of putting.  In a round of par golf half your strokes are putts, so for the scratch player who has a reasonable expectation of shooting par putting could certainly be considered the most important single aspect of their game.  But take that novice who's never held a club before and the only place on the golf course they will feel anywhere near at ease and in control will be when they (finally!) make it to the green.  Looking at this through a less extreme lens I think a case can be made that the less skilled a golfer is the more important the other aspects of their game become when compared to putting.

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeNut

short game, chipping, putting.......................

anyone who says anything different has a screw loose..........

Agreed.  I play regularly with several different guys on the weekend.  And while I'm consistently longer and straighter in the fairway than pretty much every single one of them... They still often times out score me in the round.  One guy is like a machine from 6ft and in.  The goal in golf is getting the ball in the hole quicker than the rest.

Therefore my belief, putting is #1 - especially pressure putting in my book.  Then I would say your wedge game is #2, from ~115yds and in you need to get the ball close to the hole on a consistent basis.  Then chipping/pitching is #3... Then iron play #4, and finally driving #5.

Today's drivers are pretty easy to hit well - all over the face as they are very forgiving.  A lot of people put way too much value into their driver IMO.