Tiger Wants to Ban the Long Putter

[broomhandle]

I'm currently using an unanchored long putter. Left arm touching nothing.

so does my avatar, Tom Kite

I despise the probable anchor ban and what it will do to the belly guys but I think I'll personally probably be ok with the broomhandle unless they get REALLY extreme or if the enforcement is worse than the rule.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by broomhandle

I'm currently using an unanchored long putter. Left arm touching nothing.

so does my avatar, Tom Kite

I despise the probable anchor ban and what it will do to the belly guys but I think I'll personally probably be ok with the broomhandle unless they get REALLY extreme or if the enforcement is worse than the rule.

OK, then, yeah, you bring up an interesting point with the enforcement of the rule.  I guess we will just have to wait until they make the decision to ban or not to ban, and see exactly how the word it, to figure out how enforcement will work for folks like you.

But I don't envy you for the situation you mentioned about having to hear from "know-it-alls" who inform you that you are using an illegal putter. (Probably every time you go to the course)  As it is now, I would assume that you get people asking you questions about what you are going to do when they ban your putter?

[dave67az]

Originally Posted by broomhandle

Ok, now how about plans for enforcement?

Assume a 'club nor hand can touch body' rule.

I guess this would be like most rules and it would be supposed that I would call a penalty on myself if I violated it.

If an official saw me in violation w/o calling it on myself I'd be penalized and/or dq-ed.

Technically a 1mm gap between hand and body would be legal.

Who judges that tiny margin on every putt?

Would it be my responsibility to show clear compliance or an officials responsibility to show clear violation?

Since the spirit of the change is to ban anchoring an unanchored stroke that incidentally brushes the body at some one point should still be legal, right?

I'm happy putting with my left thumb 1-2" from my chest.

I'm well within the spirit of the new rule and with a tight t-shirt clearly within the letter

Even 1 baggy shirt can touch my left hand though.

With the oversize windbreaker I like to wear it would be extremely difficult to avoid the jacket obscuring the hand-chest gap completely.

I'm honestly not trying to be silly but it seems like I could end up in a position of having to golf in snug clothes.(only if I played a usga event, of course)

A fat person would have to keep his hand further from the center of his body than a skinny person. Discrimination :)

Is this worth it for the alleged benefit?

One thing I'd bet all I have will happen is that when an anchor ban goes in and I'm using an unanchored broomhandle some people are going to come up to me and tell me I should stop using that putter because it was banned. Probably somebody will do it between the announcement and the effective date! I'll enjoy the arguments but that situation will probably really bother some long-putter users.

I really don't see enforcement as that big of a problem.  If you're in a bunker and you come within a few millimeters from grounding your club, you don't call a penalty on yourself.  If you do ground your club, you call the penalty.  This ain't horseshoes.  Just as with all rules, you can call a penalty on yourself and officials can do the same if they (or some morons watching the telecast) spot something.

Another thing to remember is we're not talking about one-time incidents, we're talking about a putting style that will be used over and over at least 20 times in a round.  I don't have any problem duplicating my putting style putt after putt and I'm nowhere near a pro (probably because I get twice as much practice in a round as they do).  I find it highly unlikely that if you develop a style in which your hand isn't touching your chest (such as the one you described) that you'd be at much risk of doing so during a putt.  And if there's some boundary-tester out there who has the balls to develop a style where his hand is just millimeters from his chest, then he kind of deserves what he gets if he accidentally does so during a putt.  I can't picture a situation where just because of a baggy shirt or jacket that officials wouldn't be able to tell that the putter isn't anchored on the chest/belly.

You do bring up interesting points, and I'm sure this is something the rules committee is used to dealing with for EVERY rule they come up with.

- Dave

[Chas]

Originally Posted by dave67az

I swear I haven't written this much since I tried to explain the Air Force Medical Evaluation Board and disability determination process to my last unit.  :-)

LOL

And I don't think I've read so much text around the use of formal logic since studying a "proof" of the existence of God (defined as: "that than which there is no greater") published by the Professor of Logic at my old College, an engaging chap with a long pig-tail..

This forum has definitely gone up in the world lately ....

My advice to USGA and R&A; would be: read this thread very carefully and make sure that ALL of the putting scenarios described herein are well covered by your new rule.

[JohnLund]

I must say you folks have taken this discussion to a new level. Interesting. Having wielded a broomstick putter for the past 2 1/2 years, I would be sad to have to give it up totally if it came to that. I could go back to a fat handled short putter but my long putter has taken nervous hands out of play and put the fun back into my time on the greens. That said, I have practiced using the broomstick without anchoring my hand to chest. The long handle really only works if you create a fixed point at the top. To do that (being right-handed), I tuck my left elbow securely into my side to firm up my left forearm and hand to make the pivot point. This allows me to back a smooth back and forth swing with my right hand while keeping the fixed point away from my chest. It does put a little more tension into my left side but I can make it work. I trust this meets with the "no anchoring" rule suggested here. Thoughts?

[broomhandle]

Originally Posted by JohnLund

I must say you folks have taken this discussion to a new level. Interesting. Having wielded a broomstick putter for the past 2 1/2 years, I would be sad to have to give it up totally if it came to that. I could go back to a fat handled short putter but my long putter has taken nervous hands out of play and put the fun back into my time on the greens. That said, I have practiced using the broomstick without anchoring my hand to chest. The long handle really only works if you create a fixed point at the top. To do that (being right-handed), I tuck my left elbow securely into my side to firm up my left forearm and hand to make the pivot point. This allows me to back a smooth back and forth swing with my right hand while keeping the fixed point away from my chest. It does put a little more tension into my left side but I can make it work. I trust this meets with the "no anchoring" rule suggested here. Thoughts?

That complies with Dave's proposed rule of club and hand to wrist can't touch body. Some people here have proposed that the forearm shouldn't touch the upper body either. I can even handle that but it sounds like you can't(yet). I think a forearm rule would create HUGE problems with judgement of legality and affect many strokes it wasn't meant to if applied objectively. If they go the other way and stick to a 'club cant touch body' only rule then the belly guys are dead but you and I are unaffected.

Sounds like you use the original 'right arm only' method and not the shoulder rock that Scott,Clark,Petterson,etc use.

The r&a; guy whose name I should remember but don't made one statement that focused on 'anchoring' AND 'pivoting'. If they go a 'pivot ban' route your stroke could be illegal regardless of what you do with your left arm.

1. They deliberately left the broomstick in the game once already.

2. The current hysteria is focused around mostly belly putter success and growth.

3. They've said repeatedly they want to ban a method and not length of putter.

You and I should be ok but I still half-expect to get ****ed.

[broomhandle]

Oh, another thing hat has been proposed here is that the hands must touch each other. That would take the 48" putter away from me altogether.

There could be a scenario where I go from an un-anchored long putter to a short putter with my forearm anchored on my belly.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by broomhandle

Oh, another thing hat has been proposed here is that the hands must touch each other. That would take the 48" putter away from me altogether.

There could be a scenario where I go from an un-anchored long putter to a short putter with my forearm anchored on my belly.

Yeah, and I pointed out (or at least I think I did, maybe I just thought it) awhile back that this would actually affect a handful of guys using short putters.  Namely, Sergio Garcia and Mark Calcaveccia.  I don't think they would go this route.

Side question:  How much of a factor does the Champions Tour factor into this?  They will have a lot more guys hurt by a new rule than the kids will.

[teamroper60]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Side question:  How much of a factor does the Champions Tour factor into this?  They will have a lot more guys hurt by a new rule than the kids will.

Based on what I have seen on The Golf Channel, it looks like there would be a whole bunch of guys on the Champions Tour affected by a rule change.  The irony of which is, even though there seems to be a plethora of long/belly putters on that tour, it doesn't get near the discussion when they are on the TV as it does when the regular tour is on.   Which makes me wonder if the USGA is taking into consideration what affect such a rule change would have on them.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by teamroper60

Based on what I have seen on The Golf Channel, it looks like there would be a whole bunch of guys on the Champions Tour affected by a rule change.  The irony of which is, even though there seems to be a plethora of long/belly putters on that tour, it doesn't get near the discussion when they are on the TV as it does when the regular tour is on.   Which makes me wonder if the USGA is taking into consideration what affect such a rule change would have on them.

Bingo.  That is exactly why I asked the question.  So many guys have been using long putters for so long on the senior tour, its not even remotely an issue to any of them ... its just a fact of life.  And on top of that, I believe a lot of them probably started with the long putter as a 'yip' cure and stuck with it.  Meaning that those guys will probably be done and the senior tour will lose a few players to putting woes.

[ejimsmith]

i like my belly putter a lot.  i was pretty good w/ my normal putter, but i went to the belly since i understood it would help make putts inside 6 ft. pretty much automatic.  i figured saving 2-3 storkes per round would get me in the low 80's maybe below, and that's what its done for me.  i feel very confident inside 8 ft, i feel that i'm 50/50 on those putts, which means that if i can get my approach shot within that 16ft. circle, then i have a 50% shot at a birdie.   i'd really hate to give it up as i've really come to enjoy putting with it.   enjoyable golf, lower scores.. why the usga would want to take that away from us is beyond me.

augusta finally grew up and started admitting ladies, the usga should too and ignore the so-called 'traditionalists' that want to kill the long/belly.   i've ready nearly every post on here over the weeks/months this thread has been around, and really, the nay-sayers argument is just that they simply "don't like it".

can't we all just get along?

[dave67az]

Originally Posted by ejimsmith

i like my belly putter a lot.  i was pretty good w/ my normal putter, but i went to the belly since i understood it would help make putts inside 6 ft. pretty much automatic.  i figured saving 2-3 storkes per round would get me in the low 80's maybe below, and that's what its done for me.  i feel very confident inside 8 ft, i feel that i'm 50/50 on those putts, which means that if i can get my approach shot within that 16ft. circle, then i have a 50% shot at a birdie.   i'd really hate to give it up as i've really come to enjoy putting with it.   enjoyable golf, lower scores.. why the usga would want to take that away from us is beyond me.

augusta finally grew up and started admitting ladies, the usga should too and ignore the so-called 'traditionalists' that want to kill the long/belly.   i've ready nearly every post on here over the weeks/months this thread has been around, and really, the nay-sayers argument is just that they simply "don't like it".

can't we all just get along?

I'd love us to all get along.

But honestly, and I mean you no personal offense, I'd also love us all (men and women equally) to be playing the same game in the same way with the same challenges but without equipment that eliminates a vital component of the game: those pesky little mental demons.  The USGA doesn't allow you to carry around an mp3 player and listen to music during a round and the reason is very explicitly stated:

Listening to music or a broadcast while making a stroke or for a prolonged period might assist the player in his play, for example, by eliminating distractions or promoting a good tempo .  Therefore, the use of an artificial device to listen to music or a broadcast, whether or not through headphones, while making a stroke or for a prolonged period of time during a stipulated round is a breach of Rule 14-3. (http://www.usga.org/uploadedFiles/USGAHome/rules/newdecisions.pdf)

There are several golfers who use belly/long putters who will freely testify that their putting was getting horrible (sometimes because of those mental demons) so they tried one in desperation and saw NEAR-IMMEDIATE improvement without having to spend a lot of time on the practice green to fix their problems.  I could post links to their stories if you're interested.  But, in my opinion, if any piece of equipment makes that much improvement to your game and saves you from having to spend as much time on the practice green, I think you've just robbed yourself with that shortcut.  To me, it's the difference between buying a house and building one yourself.  And golf was never intended to be an easy game.  It's supposed to have challenges and part of the enjoyment is supposed to be in learning to overcome those challenges naturally without benefit of specially-designed equipment like golf balls that are impossible to slice or that carry 350 yards, or drivers that turn every par 5 into an easy eagle.

I honestly could make the same argument for those 460cc drivers and the funky putters we have now, but at least neither of those makes a person change the traditional putting stroke in order to use them.

- Dave

[broomhandle]

Originally Posted by ejimsmith

i like my belly putter a lot.  i was pretty good w/ my normal putter, but i went to the belly since i understood it would help make putts inside 6 ft. pretty much automatic.  i figured saving 2-3 storkes per round would get me in the low 80's maybe below, and that's what its done for me.  i feel very confident inside 8 ft, i feel that i'm 50/50 on those putts, which means that if i can get my approach shot within that 16ft. circle, then i have a 50% shot at a birdie.   i'd really hate to give it up as i've really come to enjoy putting with it.   enjoyable golf, lower scores.. why the usga would want to take that away from us is beyond me.

augusta finally grew up and started admitting ladies, the usga should too and ignore the so-called 'traditionalists' that want to kill the long/belly.   i've ready nearly every post on here over the weeks/months this thread has been around, and really, the nay-sayers argument is just that they simply "don't like it".

can't we all just get along?

Could you describe your method of using the belly putter?

What's different than the short putter and what is the same?

[Bayou Boogie]

Originally Posted by ejimsmith

i like my belly putter a lot.  i was pretty good w/ my normal putter, but i went to the belly since i understood it would help make putts inside 6 ft. pretty much automatic.  i figured saving 2-3 storkes per round would get me in the low 80's maybe below, and that's what its done for me.  i feel very confident inside 8 ft, i feel that i'm 50/50 on those putts, which means that if i can get my approach shot within that 16ft. circle, then i have a 50% shot at a birdie.   i'd really hate to give it up as i've really come to enjoy putting with it.   enjoyable golf, lower scores.. why the usga would want to take that away from us is beyond me.

augusta finally grew up and started admitting ladies, the usga should too and ignore the so-called 'traditionalists' that want to kill the long/belly.   i've ready nearly every post on here over the weeks/months this thread has been around, and really, the nay-sayers argument is just that they simply "don't like it".

can't we all just get along?

I earlier asked what other precedent where something in golf that has been accepted for long term (not like the Sam Snead croquet stroke) was banned and the example of

square grooves was brought up. I should have framed the question on a usage basis, not an equipment one. This decision would have much more profound effect on thousands of

golfers who would consider giving up the game rather than go back to uncontrollably stabbing at the ball. It ran Ben Hogan out of the game, Johnny Miller also. I would love everyone

on this forum who is in favor of banning the stroke to truly experience full blown yips--not choking over a 3 footer to win a bet, but not being able to get anywhere near the hole

while you are practicing by yourself--with no pressure except when will your right hand will  jump like you have tourettes syndrome.  I think with that perspective, opinions might differ

how a stroke that has been widely commonplace for many years should be regarded. I predict again that the ruling bodies will decide to stay with a long accepted style of putting

that will help to continue to grow the popularity of the game and longevity of everyone who plays it.

[ejimsmith]

Originally Posted by broomhandle

Could you describe your method of using the belly putter?

What's different than the short putter and what is the same?

i don't think it should matter how i use it.  that's the side of this argument that i'm on.

[broomhandle]

Originally Posted by dave67az

I'd love us to all get along.

But honestly, and I mean you no personal offense, I'd also love us all (men and women equally) to be playing the same game in the same way with the same challenges but without equipment that eliminates a vital component of the game: those pesky little mental demons.  The USGA doesn't allow you to carry around an mp3 player and listen to music during a round and the reason is very explicitly stated:

Listening to music or a broadcast while making a stroke or for a prolonged period might assist the player in his play, for example, by eliminating distractions or promoting a good tempo.  Therefore, the use of an artificial device to listen to music or a broadcast, whether or not through headphones, while making a stroke or for a prolonged period of time during a stipulated round is a breach of Rule 14-3.  (http://www.usga.org/uploadedFiles/USGAHome/rules/newdecisions.pdf)

There are several golfers who use belly/long putters who will freely testify that their putting was getting horrible (sometimes because of those mental demons) so they tried one in desperation and saw NEAR-IMMEDIATE improvement without having to spend a lot of time on the practice green to fix their problems.  I could post links to their stories if you're interested.  But, in my opinion, if any piece of equipment makes that much improvement to your game and saves you from having to spend as much time on the practice green, I think you've just robbed yourself with that shortcut.  To me, it's the difference between buying a house and building one yourself.  And golf was never intended to be an easy game.  It's supposed to have challenges and part of the enjoyment is supposed to be in learning to overcome those challenges naturally without benefit of specially-designed equipment like golf balls that are impossible to slice or that carry 350 yards, or drivers that turn every par 5 into an easy eagle.

I honestly could make the same argument for those 460cc drivers and the funky putters we have now, but at least neither of those makes a person change the traditional putting stroke in order to use them.

- Dave

My experience is very much the opposite. EVERYBODY I've let stroke a few with my broomhandles has said 'I don't know how you can use that thing.'

When I bought my first one I can still remember the sales girl saying "Good luck with this, we've all tried it and we stink'.

You have to either be desperate enough or just like new challenges enough to work through a transition.

Most of the stories I've heard about bellies are similar.

It's a lot more difficult to learn to use a long putter than to complain that other people shouldn't be allowed to.

They might help with mental issues but far, far from eliminating them.

I turned on the British Open 4th round very early and watched Adam Scott practice putting for at least an hour. Then he badly botched a short putt for par on the first hole and putted like crap all day..

For about 70 holes the announcers were saying if Els was making anything he'd be leading. He won in spite of finishing about 70 of 80 in putting. The one he dropped on the 72 was the kind you only hope to make. The really mental ones are the short ones you think you should always make. Just yesterday I saw an internet article saying he won because the belly putter let him make the winning putt.

Kite and Singh are legendary practicers. No way they're going long putter to avoid hard work. I don't think there is any pro who went to the long putter in desperation without first putting in enough hard work to believe no amount of work was going to fix the issues.The kids like Bradley are a whole different case. They actually took a risk going to what is still a minority technique very early.

What you're asking is the opposite of what you want to be asking. Let's protect the naturals who pick up a short putter, putt well right away and never get the yips from the plodders who are willing to try anything and everything, working and working  until they putt somewhere close to as well as the naturals and have a chance to beat them from tee to green.

[broomhandle]

Originally Posted by ejimsmith

i don't think it should matter how i use it.  that's the side of this argument that i'm on.

I agree. I'm on that side.

But I'm also wondering if some of the pro-ban arguments are even technically correct.

[ejimsmith]

Originally Posted by broomhandle

I agree. I'm on that side.

But I'm also wondering if some of the pro-ban arguments are even technically correct.

if the question comes down to if i anchor it, then yes.  i push the top of the putter into my belly, and my hands are where they would be with a normal, short putter. i do feel doing that makes my putting better cause regardless of what happens on my backswing, the putter gets back to square when it hits the ball.  i will argue that its still putting and is 100% within the spirit of the game.