Linsanity!

[Kieran123]

He just got owned by Miami.

[imtomtomim]

Tonight wasn't his night.  The heat were all over him, they let him run in and then smother him.  His speed is such an advantage though, but it gets him in trouble.  Most of the turnovers I see are him rushing in and then having no option and getting shut down.

It's such a great story, the kid finally gets a chance on the big stage and rises to the opportunity.  I hope he keeps it up and finds his place in the game.

[clubchamp]

Case and point, he's a good point guard but good teams will give him problems. I'm not saying he won't be successful because I think he will but he no longer has the element of surprise so the better teams will shut him down. I also agree he gets way a head of himself sometimes especially when he drives only to realize he has no where to go with the ball.

[Gresh24]

The Heat also did this to a guy named Rose...

[jhwmusic]

And D. Rose has also diced them up plenty of times. includingnpretty much every game last year! Regardless, I am routing for Jeremy ....seems like a good kid. Wish he wasnt playing fornthe knicksnbut he is still very impressive thus far

[jhwmusic]

It's absolutely great to watch and the Lakers game was the first NBA game I've watched in years. I'm guessing he can keep it going until they play the heat or whoever and someone like Lebron says I'll cover him. He won't be able to handle the range of a bigger player guarding him based on what I've seen but I hope he keeps it going for a long time.

He handled Shawn Marion who is a pretty damn good defender....and a lot longer. I think Jeremy had 28 that game. The heats game plan was well executed. But I feel he is smart enough to adjust. he is also trying to find his place with melo back and the addition of crazy JR Smith.

[Gresh24]

Originally Posted by jhwmusic

And D. Rose has also diced them up plenty of times. includingnpretty much every game last year!

Except those games in the playoffs...

[imtomtomim]

JHW is right, with all these heavy hitters coming back, he's trying to adjust his game for them.  He's always been pretty generous with the ball, but when he didn't have those guys out there, he wouldn't hesitate as much to take it all the way in.  Once those players were back in the game, it seems he has really been trying to transform his play to support them.

I heard a bunch of analysts saying when Carmelo came back, it would be Lin that needs to adjust to support him.  Maybe the coaching should have tried to keep the play of a guy avg. 27 points a game consistent, instead of making him cater to a strategy and game that never really did that well.  Let's see how it goes

[jhwmusic]

Except those games in the playoffs...

Okay...you aren't gonna win this argument. The heat NEVER did to d. Rose what they did to Lin. Rose never shot 1-10 with 8 turnovers....EVER. In fact, the last time they played he had 34 And if he didn't miss those free throws at the end they would have won. So NOBODY is locking down rose. And as far as the playoffs went last year. He averaged like 27 in that series. One player doesn't determine wins or losses. The heat are looking tough! The real NBA championship will be won in the eastern conference finals.

[Gresh24]

Originally Posted by jhwmusic

Okay...you aren't gonna win this argument. The heat NEVER did to d. Rose what they did to Lin. Rose never shot 1-10 with 8 turnovers....EVER. In fact, the last time they played he had 34 And if he didn't miss those free throws at the end they would have won. So NOBODY is locking down rose. And as far as the playoffs went last year. He averaged like 27 in that series. One player doesn't determine wins or losses. The heat are looking tough! The real NBA championship will be won in the eastern conference finals.

Rose averaged 5+ less points and 2 less assists against the Heat in the playoffs compared to other teams - he averaged 23, btw.  But almost 29 vs. everyone else.   Rose still got numbers against them, but in the 4th quarter when they needed to shut down Rose, they did.  They completely took Rose out of his game.

My point is, the Heat can do this to players (when they want to), especially guards.  They are the best defensive team with the most speed, athleticism, and length.

[jhwmusic]

Originally Posted by Gresh24

Rose averaged 5+ less points and 2 less assists against the Heat in the playoffs compared to other teams - he averaged 23, btw.  But almost 29 vs. everyone else.   Rose still got numbers against them, but in the 4th quarter when they needed to shut down Rose, they did.  They completely took Rose out of his game.

My point is, the Heat can do this to players (when they want to), especially guards.  They are the best defensive team with the most speed, athleticism, and length.

Somebody went back read some stats!!!   ha ha!   I could have sworn he averaged 27...but that was obviously for the whole playoffs.  29 vs everyone else...23 vs Heat.

I agree with you about the Heat having the most speed and athleticism.  But I wouldn't agree that they "completely" took him out of his game...I feel like the rest of his team wasn't helping him out at all.  Deng spend too much energy guarding Lebron....the rest of the team completely sh#t the bed in the 4th quarters...just stood around.  You could go either way though.  Regardless, they lost.   It's gonna be a good series this year if they both make it to the ECF.

[Gresh24]

Originally Posted by jhwmusic

Somebody went back read some stats!!!   ha ha!   I could have sworn he averaged 27...but that was obviously for the whole playoffs.  29 vs everyone else...23 vs Heat.

I agree with you about the Heat having the most speed and athleticism.  But I wouldn't agree that they "completely" took him out of his game...I feel like the rest of his team wasn't helping him out at all.  Deng spend too much energy guarding Lebron....the rest of the team completely sh#t the bed in the 4th quarters...just stood around.  You could go either way though.  Regardless, they lost.   It's gonna be a good series this year if they both make it to the ECF.

Here's a couple more stats.  Rose's FG numbers for the 4th quarter in games 2-5 - 0-4, 1-2, 1-5, 2-8.  I would say shooting 14%, and not even being able to get shots off in close games in the 4th quarter of the playoffs, for the league MVP and one of the leaugue's leading scorers, is "completely" taking him out of his game.  Rose was right there with all of his teammates sh#tting the bed...  I don't expect this years' series, if there is one, to be any different.

[jhwmusic]

Hey Statboy, I can go to espn.com too.  Got a little anger in your voice!....maybe count to 100 or take some deep breaths.  I told you were right the heat and scoring averages, but you still had to stroke yourself just a little more.  But I understand...its your big win of the week.  Good luck to you and your cardinals!

Originally Posted by Gresh24

Here's a couple more stats.  Rose's FG numbers for the 4th quarter in games 2-5 - 0-4, 1-2, 1-5, 2-8.  I would say shooting 14%, and not even being able to get shots off in close games in the 4th quarter of the playoffs, for the league MVP and one of the leaugue's leading scorers, is "completely" taking him out of his game.  Rose was right there with all of his teammates sh#tting the bed...  I don't expect this years' series, if there is one, to be any different.

[Gresh24]

That's funny.  I'm not angry at all, and could care less about "winning" an argument on a message board.  I simply disagreed with a few of your points.  I didn't realize that'd be so difficult for you.  You said Rose diced up the Heat "every game last year".  The Bulls lost the last 4 against them.  You said the Heat didn't completely take Rose out of his game.  I think they did.  The best measure in the NBA is looking at fourth quarter production, especially in the playoffs. I apologize for using stats, actual numbers, and results to back up my opinion.   I also disagree that the Bulls can give the Heat a good series this year.

I just was attempting to point out that the Heat can do this to teams and players (in defense of Lin and the original topic).  I just threw Rose out as an example.

Interesting responses from someone that starts debates with "You're not going to win this argument"...

[jhwmusic]

In defense to my "you aren't gonna win this argument"  I was referring to You comparing what the Heat did to Jeremy Lin to what they did to D. Rose in last years playoffs.  I'm sorry but that just isn't a good comparison.  Jeremy Lin got completely shut down.

And the reason I read into you getting fired up.  Is because in my second response, I agreed with what you said about the Heat's athleticism and admitted I was wrong about his scoring average.  I thought he scored 27 per but in fact it was 23 verse the heat.

Look, you are entitled to your opinion and I am to mine.   But you seriously don't think the bulls can give the heat a game?...even though Rose has been hurt all year and sat out 9 games, but they still have the best record in the NBA...and he doesn't have Lebron James and Chris Bosh to pick up the slack like wade does.  So that has to say something about his coach and his team.  The heat are obviously the more talented team when they have all three guys healthy...but if one or two of those guys goes down, they are done, son.  By saying the bulls can't give them a game or doubting they will even make it to the ECF puts you on an island all by yourself.

Also, understand that this is a message board so it is very difficult to judge people's tones.  I know I am not very good at it.  I tried to joke around with you in the second response , agreed with some of the stuff you were saying  and you came back with all these stats and sounded a little fired up.  If I was wrong, I apologize.

Originally Posted by Gresh24

That's funny.  I'm not angry at all, and could care less about "winning" an argument on a message board.  I simply disagreed with a few of your points.  I didn't realize that'd be so difficult for you.  You said Rose diced up the Heat "every game last year".  The Bulls lost the last 4 against them.  You said the Heat didn't completely take Rose out of his game.  I think they did.  The best measure in the NBA is looking at fourth quarter production, especially in the playoffs. I apologize for using stats, actual numbers, and results to back up my opinion.   I also disagree that the Bulls can give the Heat a good series this year.

I just was attempting to point out that the Heat can do this to teams and players (in defense of Lin and the original topic).  I just threw Rose out as an example.

Interesting responses from someone that starts debates with "You're not going to win this argument"...

[Gresh24]

No problem.  I know a lot gets lost in translation on a message board and I am guilty of it too.

I know the Heat didn't literally to to Rose what they did to Lin, but I still think it is a valid point and comparison.

And no, I don't think the Bulls are that close to the Heat and won't give them much of a series.  Last year they were owned by the Heat.  As you said, the Bulls all 'sh#t the bed' last year in the fourth quarter, and Rose did too.  They lost 4 straight with home court advantage.  And the Heat are better this year.  They are doing a lot of things better, especially defensively, and a few things differently offensively.  Battier was a big addition to the defense, which was the best in the league last year, and they have a healthy Haslem, and are getting much better point guard play.  I think the gap is getting wider.   I never said the Bulls couldn't make the Eastern Conference Finals, I'm just saying they can't get past the Heat.

If one or two of the best guys go down for any contending team, they're done.

The regular season is a joke.  The Bulls will always have among the leagues best record in the regular season.  But, I have zero confidence that anyone can step it up in the playoffs.  I don't think I am on an island by myself in thinking the gap between them is a pretty big one, well, outside of Bulls fans .

[jhwmusic]

No problem.  I know a lot gets lost in translation on a message board and I am guilty of it too.

I know the Heat didn't literally to to Rose what they did to Lin, but I still think it is a valid point and comparison.

And no, I don't think the Bulls are that close to the Heat and won't give them much of a series.  Last year they were owned by the Heat.  As you said, the Bulls all 'sh#t the bed' last year in the fourth quarter, and Rose did too.  They lost 4 straight with home court advantage.  And the Heat are better this year.  They are doing a lot of things better, especially defensively, and a few things differently offensively.  Battier was a big addition to the defense, which was the best in the league last year, and they have a healthy Haslem, and are getting much better point guard play.  I think the gap is getting wider.   I never said the Bulls couldn't make the Eastern Conference Finals, I'm just saying they can't get past the Heat.

If one or two of the best guys go down for any contending team, they're done.

The regular season is a joke.  The Bulls will always have among the leagues best record in the regular season.  But, I have zero confidence that anyone can step it up in the playoffs.  I don't think I am on an island by myself in thinking the gap between them is a pretty big one, well, outside of Bulls fans .

Lost in translation....I say that to my wife all the time when she reads my texts incorrectly. Ha. I've had to stop texting her all together because of it. I'll ask her to pick up milk and she'll say " stop yelling at me". Ha ha. Not that bad but.... Anyway..Im also guilty of being a raging bulls fan...I'm pretty sure you already picked up on that. So it is very hard for me to doubt them. Especially after we sucked for for so long...we were so spoiled during the Jordan years and then basically fielded a JV team for 8 years. I also watch pretty much every bulls game....along with a lot of heat games etc.. So I'm sure you can understand my defense mechanism. Im also a cubs fan so I'm sure you would respond similarly if I started in on the cardinals....which I won't. I respect cardinals fans...actually very much so because they are similar to cubs fans. Only difference is your team wins and we don't. Both will stick by their teams no matter what though. As far as bulls go, i still disagree. I feel they are better this year. If we can get healthy, i think we can make some noise. We were basically playing without a shooting guard last year. Bogans had a few streaky games but he is a bum. Decent defender but just stood around on offense and waited to shoot 3s. So far when Rip has played we have been virtually unstoppable this year...but he can't stay healthy. But I'm sticking with them. Whether you like it or not! :-D Let's Pick this convo back up in a few months.

[Gresh24]

It's been a few months....