Some Rule Myths, Misconceptions, and other stuff.

[Ignorant]

Originally Posted by Missouri Swede

My local muni has OB stakes within the course separating three holes (two with doglegs). (Yep, they're specifically designated as OB markers.) Pull or hook your tee shot on the first hole and you can find yourself in the left rough next to a white stake that could impede your swing (assuming you went just short of OB).

So? That stake is fixed and if it interferes with your swing then it is tough life. However, if the other side of this OB stake is black AND there is a Local Rule pointing out that the black side area is not OB AND that on that side these stakes are concidered obstructions, THEN you may either move them (not recommended practise, as they should be deemed as immovable obstructions) or take a relief from an immovable obstruction.

[Dormie1360]

Originally Posted by RC

Number 28... Practice stroke moves ball.

I thought you had to move it back to its original place but there was also a penalty involved (one stroke)-- that is unless on the tee to begin the hole.  A player cannot be moving his ball and then replacing it with no penalty as he or she goes around the course.  There should be a penalty whether he or she has addressed the ball or not, and additional penalty (two strokes this time)  if the ball is not returned to its original place.  Might be wrong, but that is my take on rule 18.

HI RC,

Hmmmm, I guess the way I did this is confusing some.  As mentioned you are correct as far as penalties.  I did not put penalty statements in.  The point of 28 is that you put the ball back when ever you move the ball when it's not a stroke.  I.E. Davis Love on the putting green a few years ago, most people are confused as to whether or not the ball gets returned.  All the statements should be read as truths.  Yes, you can add to the statements, however, hopefully if you read just what's written it makes sense.

Regards,

John

[Dormie1360]

#28     If you accidentally move your ball when it's not in play, no penalty and under the rules, it doesn't matter if you put it back or not, although you probably would want to.  That's the ball on the tee example.  However, if you accidental move your ball in play, it's a 1 stroke penalty MOST OF THE TIME and you have to put it back, (Replace it) MOST OF THE TIME.

For example if you kicked your ball that lie in a Hazard, you get the one stroke penalty for kicking it, however you DON"T HAVE TO return it to it's original position if you want to just go ahead and proceed under Rule 26 (Hazards) and play your ball outside the hazard with the additional penalty stroke.

However, say your ball lies in an Abnormal Ground Condition and you kick it while searching for it.  NO Penalty for kicking it and you can either return it or take relief under Rule 25 (Abnormal Ground Condition) with NO penalty.

Also the Ball on the tee example.  Say you hit your Tee Shot and it might be lost.  You are going to play another ball from the tee and you accidentally knock your provisional ball off the tee.  Penalty?  No.  Your provisional, like your first tee ball, is not in play until you actually make a stroke at it.

Aren't rules simple?

Regards,

John

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by Dormie1360

Exactly.  You are required to play the same make and model though out the round.  If you were going to borrow one it would have to be the same ball.  Years ago when there was a big difference between balls, balata, hard cover, solid core, wound, etc.  players would be able to change ball types on different holes depending on wind conditions, whether they needed distance or spin.....stuff like that.  Because of this they came up with the One Ball Rule as a Condition of Competition.  Now a days all the golf balls are much more similar so the PGA Tour doesn't care.

Regards,

John

When did the Tour do away with the one ball rule.  I hadn't heard.

[szaino]

Originally Posted by turtleback

When did the Tour do away with the one ball rule.  I hadn't heard.

They haven't. As far as I know, they still have the one ball rule in effect for all tour events.

[szaino]

Originally Posted by Dormie1360

...

Also the Ball on the tee example.  Say you hit your Tee Shot and it might be lost.  You are going to play another ball from the tee and you accidentally knock your provisional ball off the tee.  Penalty?  No.  Your provisional, like your first tee ball, is not in play until you actually make a stroke at it.

Aren't rules simple?

Regards,

John

Right answer, wrong reason.

Your provisional is not "in play" when you make a stroke at it, but rather when you determine it is "in play". You may or may not find the original ball which could still be the the ball in play. The ball "in play" is very specifically defined throughout the rules.

The tee ground has a separate rule that says, if your ball falls off the tee for any reason ( other than a stroke) after or while addressing, there is no penalty and you just re-tee. Why you are hitting off a tee has no bearing.

[Dormie1360]

Found this hard card for the Byron Nelson for this year.  It does say the One Ball Rule is in effect.  I have an email out to the PGA of America official to get a clarification.  I'm wondering if the USGA and PGA of America have changed and not the Tour.

http://img.bluegolf.org/files/ntpga/2012_PGA_TOUR_Hard_Card.pdf

Edit:

Just got this answer....I'm learning a lot today.

John,

The "one ball rule" is in effect on The PGA Tour. The PGA of America does not have the "one ball rule" in effect at the events it oversees (PGA Champioship, PGA Senior Championship, all PGA Professional National Championships etc. I am not sure if it will be in effect at The Ryder Cup because the conditions of compettion are in a document titled "The Captains' Agreement".

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Dormie1360

The "one ball rule" is in effect on The PGA Tour. The PGA of America does not have the "one ball rule" in effect at the events it oversees (PGA Champioship, PGA Senior Championship, all PGA Professional National Championships etc. I am not sure if it will be in effect at The Ryder Cup because the conditions of compettion are in a document titled "The Captains' Agreement".

The PNC has the one-ball rule (or did the past two years). I specifically remember seeing this on the sheets, and I was diligent about making sure that all of the golf balls in Dave's bag were not only "Titleist Pro V1x" but the same generation of golf ball, too (because technically the 2009 and 2011 versions are "different" golf balls).

I'm also about 95% certain the PGA Championship enforces the one ball condition.

It's often not enforced in the Ryder Cup during the Partner rounds where they may play one ball when one player tees off and a different ball when the other player tees off (typically, I've heard the strategy is to play the player's ball who will be hitting the approach shot).

[Dormie1360]

Yikes,

I think I'm bailing on this one.  The guy I asked officiates for the PGA of America.  At this point I would say if you are in a tournament, check the hard card or conditions of competition.  Sounds like the one ball condition is still frequently used, especially in professional competition.  If your playing with your buddies and need to borrow a ball, don't worry about it.  If your in a tournament you either need a better swing or a better caddie.

[Dormie1360]

Originally Posted by szaino

Right answer, wrong reason.

Your provisional is not "in play" when you make a stroke at it, but rather when you determine it is "in play". You may or may not find the original ball which could still be the the ball in play. The ball "in play" is very specifically defined throughout the rules.

The tee ground has a separate rule that says, if your ball falls off the tee for any reason ( other than a stroke) after or while addressing, there is no penalty and you just re-tee. Why you are hitting off a tee has no bearing.

Hi szaino.  Good point on Rule 11-3.  I'm with you on the fact that the original may or may not still be in play.  I could have written the sentence better.  I meant when the original ball was teed (sitting on the tee) it had the same status as the provisional ball on the tee.  (When I say tee I mean sitting on the wooden peg, by status I mean not in play).  I don't know if that's where the confusion is or if I'm still missing something. Specific to a tee ball, I can not think of a situation where a Teed ball would be in play before a stroke is made, consequently all teed balls have the same status as not being in play.

I agree that just because you make a stroke at a ball, teed or otherwise, it does not necessarily mean that ball is in play.  As you said, there are specific facts and actions that decide whether or not a ball is in play.

Please don't take this as being argumentative.  I appreciate the help and am always trying to learn.  Thanks.

[szaino]

Originally Posted by Dormie1360

Hi szaino.  Good point on Rule 11-3.  I'm with you on the fact that the original may or may not still be in play.  I could have written the sentence better.  I meant when the original ball was teed (sitting on the tee) it had the same status as the provisional ball on the tee.  (When I say tee I mean sitting on the wooden peg, by status I mean not in play).  I don't know if that's where the confusion is or if I'm still missing something. Specific to a tee ball, I can not think of a situation where a Teed ball would be in play before a stroke is made, consequently all teed balls have the same status as not being in play.

I agree that just because you make a stroke at a ball, teed or otherwise, it does not necessarily mean that ball is in play.  As you said, there are specific facts and actions that decide whether or not a ball is in play.

Please don't take this as being argumentative.  I appreciate the help and am always trying to learn.  Thanks.

No problem. I was just pointing out very fine wording, which really had nothing to do with your correct answer.

[Dormie1360]

Originally Posted by szaino

No problem. I was just pointing out very fine wording, which really had nothing to do with your correct answer.

Well wording is important.  Otherwise it just confuses and/or proves I don't know what I'm talking about. Do you officiate?

[twittek]

he got screwed