two balls touching in bunker

[boston blackie]

Yesterday, I and a fellow I was playing with both hit into the sand trap on a par three.  The balls ended up together, one in front of the other with about a half inch between them.  Since neither of us would be able to hit his ball without impacting the other I wonder what the rules state in a situation like this.

As it was, I just picked up my ball while he hit his, then replaced and hit mine since we were not competing nor keeping score.

[Rulesman]

One of you should have marked and lifted you ball. That may have involved marking and the marking again to one side.

After the fist ball has been played, the lie of the other may be restored and the ball replaced and played.

NOTE: The lifted ball must not be cleaned when lifted o/w a 1 stroke penalty.

[Vladimir Puttin']

Originally Posted by Rulesman

NOTE: The lifted ball must not be cleaned when lifted o/w a 1 stroke penalty.

What if the second ball moved the first.  Could he clean it?

[Zeph]

Ignore this. [S]One ball moving another off the green doesn't mean anything. Play it as it lies.[/S]

[Rulesman]

Originally Posted by Vladimir Puttin'

What if the second ball moved the first.  Could he clean it?

If you mean that the first ball was not lifted, then yes. The lie must be recreated and the ball replaced. But it may be cleaned.

[Rulesman]

Originally Posted by Zeph

One ball moving another off the green doesn't mean anything. Play it as it lies.

No. See Rule 18-5.

18-5 . By Another Ball

If a ball in play and at rest is moved by another ball in motion after a stroke , the moved ball must be replaced.

[Beachcomber]

One of you should have marked and lifted you ball. That may have involved marking and the marking again to one side.

After the fist ball has been played, the lie of the other may be restored and the ball replaced and played.

NOTE: The lifted ball must not be cleaned when lifted o/w a 1 stroke penalty.

Can the bunker be raked by player 1, before player 2 replaces and plays the 2nd bunker shot? What if player 1 hits his bunker shot and leaves a large divot or removed significant sand which alters player 2's bunker shot? This is why I ask about raking the bunker to smooth the sand before player 2's shot.

[Rulesman]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

Can the bunker be raked by player 1, before player 2 replaces and plays the 2nd bunker shot?

What if player 1 hits his bunker shot and leaves a large divot or removed significant sand which alters player 2's bunker shot? This is why I ask about raking the bunker to smooth the sand before player 2's shot.

As I said.

"After the fist ball has been played, the lie of the other may be restored and the ball replaced and played"

Either player may do it.

[Dormie1360]

Originally Posted by boston blackie

Yesterday, I and a fellow I was playing with both hit into the sand trap on a par three.  The balls ended up together, one in front of the other with about a half inch between them.  Since neither of us would be able to hit his ball without impacting the other I wonder what the rules state in a situation like this.

As it was, I just picked up my ball while he hit his, then replaced and hit mine since we were not competing nor keeping score.

Here is a short video showing the whole procedure actually happening in the 2003 Sr open.  Bob Murphy's ball was in the bunker, Hubert Green then hit his ball into the same bunker, moving Murphy's ball slightly.  Both balls ended up next to each other.

http://www.usga.org/RulesFAQ/rules_answer.asp?FAQidx=74&Rule;=18 Go to:

"Company in this bunker during the first round of the 2003 U.S. Senior Open"

The next video, " Moved by another ball" , shows a similar scenario in a LGPA event.  In this case the player could not clean her ball, because she replaced it under rule 18 (Deflected at rest) first and then lifted it under rule 22 (Interference).  She could have cleaned it when she first lifted it under Rule 18, but she didn't and put the ball back in it's original spot.  She then lifted it under the interference rule so the other player could play first.  In this case, because she lifted the ball and was holding it under Rule 22, she could not clean it.

It's a subtle difference that I'm sure would catch a lot of players.

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by Rulesman

As I said.

"After the fist ball has been played, the lie of the other may be restored and the ball replaced and played"

Either player may do it.

Thank you for the clarification.  I didn't understand the use of the word restored.

[boston blackie]

Thanks for the reply, and the useful information.

Blackie

[MissHailey]

Good Question!