Did you know your left side should be dominant?

[Lihu]

9 minutes ago, natureboy said:

What physical sequence do you use to throw with your trail arm when you want to make the ball zip? Do you leave your legs and hips out of it?

Take a look at some baseball infielder or pitching technique videos. That's why a 'feel' of the swing may be trail-sided for some even though the physical action seems to initiate in the lead side (hip). You've learned how to throw so you can put your attention on your trail side and let that lead side stuff happen unconsciously. The 'feel' is completely real to you, but it masks a lot that is happening below your conscious attention in other parts of your body.

 

This is primarily because you are throwing with your trail arm. The ball is in his trail arm and not his lead arm. It would be very odd for someone to throw with the lead arm. The player at 0:15, maybe others as well, throws the way I throw a baseball, not that I played it for any length of time.

 

[natureboy]

8 minutes ago, Lihu said:

This is primarily because you are throwing with your trail arm. The ball is in his trail arm and not his lead arm. It would be very odd for someone to throw with the lead arm. The player at 0:15, maybe others as well, throws the way I throw a baseball, not that I played it for any length of time.

 

I don't know what you're saying above? A baseball throw is not the same as throwing a frisbee backhanded? I am aware of that.

When you throw a ball. What happens with the lead hip? Does it lead or lag or go at the same time as the trail (throwing) shoulder?

[Lihu]

25 minutes ago, natureboy said:

I don't know what you're saying above? A baseball throw is not the same as throwing a frisbee backhanded? I am aware of that.

When you throw a ball. What happens with the lead hip? Does it lead or lag or go at the same time as the trail (throwing) shoulder?

Getting back to the golf swing, the biggest change I've made in the last year or so was going from that pulling sensation from the lead arm to a throwing one from the trailing one. The leading of the hips and torso with respect to the arms seems to give me more mechanical leverage that creates the foundation for my arms to "throw" at impact. I don't want to give the impression that I am flipping or casting, so I'll qualify that with feel. The lead arm just regulates the motion of my trailing arm and the leverage is provided by the rotation of the torso which in turn is powered from the hips and legs against my trailing arm chest muscles. This is my feel.

If I get into too much detail, I'll likely get it all wrong. This is my feel for what I need to generate the maximum power in my swing. In no way do I feel like the power behind the swing is from the lead side except that it creates a solid foundation for my swing. Does that make any sense? If not, it's beyond my capability and understanding to explain my feel.

[tshapiro]

On May 9, 2016 at 9:22 PM, SavvySwede said:

 

Sure sounds like your guessing from the language of your post. Hitting a lot of balls and developing a good swing will only give you a good understanding of what you need to feel to hit the ball well. It's big part of why a lot of top pros wouldn't make good instructors.

Not really guessing at all.  I've kept an open mind to the possibility of there being other ways to accomplish the same objective. But, the more I learn the more I see that people describe the swing differently - but it's all essentially the same swing. The people who figure out how to swing the golf club are no different than anyone else - some are good at explaining things and some aren't. Being a pro has nothing to do with it. 

[natureboy]

12 hours ago, Lihu said:

The lead arm just regulates the motion of my trailing arm and the leverage is provided by the rotation of the torso which in turn is powered from the hips and legs against my trailing arm chest muscles. This is my feel.

In no way do I feel like the power behind the swing is from the lead side except that it creates a solid foundation for my swing. Does that make any sense? If not, it's beyond my capability and understanding to explain my feel.

Your lead arm is still a linkage between your shoulders and the end of the grip. If shoulders are rotating on the downswing and your left hand is gripping the club, your left arm is transmitting that shoulder torque (effectively pulling on the end of the grip) even if only passively with no recruitment of the large arm muscles in that arm or shoulder.

My point in posting the infield throw video was to provide a lot of examples of throws. I am confident that all of those fielders - like your description - had their conscious awareness fixated on the ball in their hands and the feel in their throwing arms (trail side). None of them are using the lead arm to contribute to the 'throw'. But all of them start the throw with a small step / stride and opening of the lead hip. They are likely unaware of those unconscious movements that have been incorporated into their automatic 'routine' of a throw. So their 'feel' and awareness is trail side dominant, but the sequence goes lead hip, shoulders, trail arm.

For someone else, this lead hip sequence may be more conscious and they may have their attention / awareness focused on the lead side to initiate the swing correctly. But either way your attention is oriented, the target-side hip moves first in the downswing turn. If you don't turn your hips and shoulders the throw or swing has much less power.

Edited May 10, 2016 by natureboy

[Lihu]

26 minutes ago, natureboy said:

Your lead arm is still a linkage between your shoulders and the end of the grip. If the left shoulder is rotating on the downswing and your left hand is gripping the club, your left arm is transmitting that shoulder torque (effectively pulling on the end of the grip) even if only passively with no recruitment of the large arm muscles.

My point in posting the infield throw video was to provide a lot of examples of throws. I am confident that all of them - like your description - had their conscious awareness fixated on the ball in their hands and the feel in their throwing arms (trail side). None of them are using the lead arm to contribute to the 'throw'. But all of them start the throw with a small step / stride and opening of the lead hip. They are likely unaware of those unconscious movements that have been incorporated into their automatic 'routine' of a throw. So their 'feel' and awareness is trail side dominant, but the sequence goes lead hip, shoulders, trail arm.

For someone else, this lead hip sequence may be more conscious and they may have their attention / awareness focused on the lead side to initiate the swing correctly. But either way your attention is oriented, the target-side hip moves first in the downswing turn. If you don't turn your hips and shoulders the throw or swing has much less power.

We're saying the exact same thing, except that your assertion (and this thread's) is that the lead side is generating more power to the swing, which at least in my experience it does not. It appears to be a contributor to the power in the swing but not the main power source in my experience.

[natureboy]

1 hour ago, Lihu said:

We're saying the exact same thing, except that your assertion (and this thread's) is that the lead side is generating more power to the swing, which at least in my experience it does not. It appears to be a contributor to the power in the swing but not the main power source in my experience.

I'm no longer as convinced that a one-armed swing is more likely powerful if it employs the lead arm vs the trail arm. Personally I find a one-armed lead arm swing (with a club) easier to control and be consistent with, but I'm also slightly ambidextrous.

I do think that if you consider the OP statement in question as one of bad terminology / communication, it could be right - in that the lead hip has to go first for an efficient swing no matter which arm you are using or focusing on. We've been a bit focused on the arms. Maybe Whitworth was focused on the lower body with her statement?

[Lihu]

14 minutes ago, natureboy said:

I'm no longer as convinced that a one-armed swing is more likely powerful if it employs the lead arm vs the trail arm. Personally I find a one-armed lead arm swing (with a club) easier to control and be consistent with, but I'm also slightly ambidextrous.

I do think that if you consider the OP statement in question as one of bad terminology / communication, it could be right - in that the lead hip has to go first for an efficient swing no matter which arm you are using or focusing on. We've been a bit focused on the arms. Maybe Whitworth was focused on the lower body with her statement?

Possibly, that makes sense.

[9wood]

One armed golfer who is missing right arm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GY3pS5qU2w

This one is of a one armed golfer who is missing his left arm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KamCxYGzLjc

[tshapiro]

On May 9, 2016 at 0:08 AM, Lihu said:

1 minute into this video shows Mike Austin replacing the lead arm with a strap of some sort.

No lead arm.

Wrong - no lead arm would be no strap, lol. 

And he also says that the downswing begins with the body - so this video just reiterates what I'm saying. 

[tshapiro]

10 hours ago, 9wood said:

One armed golfer who is missing right arm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GY3pS5qU2w

This one is of a one armed golfer who is missing his left arm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KamCxYGzLjc

If you're missing your left than your body is now driving the right arm. This is hard to do with your left arm on the club - think right arm swing drills. Obviously, it's possible but it's a heck of a lot harder than using both arms where the body leverage is whipped down the left arm. The only one's who need this explanation are the one's who haven't figured it out yet. Jack Nicklaus said in his book golf my way that the golf swing is a left sided motion and that getting his lower body to wake up and work in the swing was an ongoing challenge if he took time off. Bobby Jones said it's a left handed swing and the right hand needed to stay out. I think these 2 guys had the accomplishments and the general intelligence to document the swing correctly. 

[boogielicious]

15 hours ago, 9wood said:

One armed golfer who is missing right arm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GY3pS5qU2w

This one is of a one armed golfer who is missing his left arm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KamCxYGzLjc

If you post the url as unformatted text or remove formatting, the video will imbed. Please do it next time.

[9wood]

19 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

If you post the url as unformatted text or remove formatting, the video will imbed. Please do it next time.

OK thanks

[Lihu]

5 hours ago, tshapiro said:

Wrong - no lead arm would be no strap, lol. 

And he also says that the downswing begins with the body - so this video just reiterates what I'm saying. 

I don't see a lead arm, just a strap. Am I missing something?

Well, I'll just reiterate what you wrote earlier:

On 5/10/2016 at 2:10 AM, tshapiro said:

Not really guessing at all.  I've kept an open mind to the possibility of there being other ways to accomplish the same objective. But, the more I learn the more I see that people describe the swing differently - but it's all essentially the same swing. The people who figure out how to swing the golf club are no different than anyone else - some are good at explaining things and some aren't. Being a pro has nothing to do with it.