Do I hurt myself by playing these courses?

[Chris Stewart]

The majority of my play this season, as I'm getting back into the game for the first time in years, has been at two courses. I mostly play them because it's easier to get on as a single, they're cheaper than most, they're kid-friendly (my 4 year old rides along with me most outings), and with the 9-hole course I can always go after work and just walk on with no wait or call ahead. The courses: First Tee Chesterfield: 18 holes, 60.6/100 par 66 Play from white tees Last scorecard for holes/distances (more par 3s than normal): http://cl.ly/0w3i1H0n113d3C283E2L Windy Hill: 9 holes, 31.1/103 par 35 Play from white tees Last scorecard for holes/distances: http://cl.ly/0F341a37422j1N203i1a Note: The actual distances are about 10-30 yards shorter than the scorecard since only the black tees are in GolfShot. I ask this question because I suspect playing 18 at a more typical 66/122 or 69/129 won't completely translate from what I'm getting used to playing. I'll find out how I've progressed tomorrow as I'm playing a tougher course. I typically get out somewhere else, somewhere more difficult, once a month or so. I'm only a 23 hcp, so I have plenty of room to grow on these two easier courses but I don't want to create false positives for myself either. I want to get better and I want it to travel well. I just wonder at what point do I need to move on more regularly to continue to progress. I know, 100%, I'm not there yet. But at what point? When I can consistently break 40 on the 9-hole? When I'm low 70s consistently on the par 66?

[Bullitt5339]

Playing courses like that, it's just important to keep things in perspective.  Good shots are still good shots, and courses like that really give you a chance to work on specific things.  How well it translates to a tougher course is probably more mental than anything.  Just because a hole is 390 yards instead of 320, doesn't mean you have to try to swing harder to cover more distance.  Hit the shots that you normally would and don't try to change your game because of course length.  Most strokes for a high handicapper are pitches, chips and putts, so if you're good at those, you'll do OK on a more difficult or longer course.

You'll see more Par 4's that are close to the length of the Par 5's you're used to, so my advice on those would be to play them like you would a Par 5 on your course.

[Chris Stewart]

Playing courses like that, it's just important to keep things in perspective.  Good shots are still good shots, and courses like that really give you a chance to work on specific things.  How well it translates to a tougher course is probably more mental than anything.  Just because a hole is 390 yards instead of 320, doesn't mean you have to try to swing harder to cover more distance.  Hit the shots that you normally would and don't try to change your game because of course length.  Most strokes for a high handicapper are pitches, chips and putts, so if you're good at those, you'll do OK on a more difficult or longer course. You'll see more Par 4's that are close to the length of the Par 5's you're used to, so my advice on those would be to play them like you would a Par 5 on your course.

Exactly what I'm thinking. I have no expectation of going out and breaking 90 tomorrow, even though that might appear to be the case if you're comparing from previous scores at these places. I always look at it like, regardless of the distance, I have to hit the shot and make the putt. Now, what it does mean, switching from a 320 par 4 to a 390 par 4, is that my approach shot goes from a 7i to a 4h (not exactly, but you know). Last time out on a more difficult course (67.5/121), I shot a 95 and that was with an awful front 9 and a killer back 9 (53/42: http://cl.ly/3c011X093w0V1a0C2l18). I'm hoping to improve on that tomorrow. Bogey golf is my goal right now.

[Paradox]

would all depend on what clubs you hit well...how far you can hit driver off the tee or how well you can hit longer irons than you're probably used to using.  4200 is a pretty short course so I would imagine it'd take a while to adjust to the length of a "regulation" course.

What do you use off the tee on the par 4's on that course(CHesterfield)?  What clubs are you hitting into the par 3's?

[Chris Stewart]

would all depend on what clubs you hit well...how far you can hit driver off the tee or how well you can hit longer irons than you're probably used to using.  4200 is a pretty short course so I would imagine it'd take a while to adjust to the length of a "regulation" course.   What do you use off the tee on the par 4's on that course(CHesterfield)?  What clubs are you hitting into the par 3's?

I'm hitting driver off the tee on 4s, making the assumption there's not a dogleg or something requiring me to hit less. I hit my driver 230-250 depending on how well I strike it. I hit my 4h about 170, 7i about 140, etc. The 4,200 yard course is very short, also has more par 3s than your average course. The 9 hole course is about 5,000 yards and is a little more typical in size for forward tees. On the par 3s, on either course, I'm hitting anything from a 5i to PW, as the yardages vary from 150 yards all the way down to 100 yards. One thing I'll probably start doing sooner rather than later is play from the back tees on these two courses. It will at least close the distance gap from a regulation sized course. I'm not a long hitter, so you're right about the distance adjustment. Here's the card for where I'm playing tomorrow: http://www.providencegolfclub.com/images/SCAN0008.jpg. I'm trying to decide where to play from, probably will go with the blue tees.

[Paradox]

If I were you, I would play the whites so that it won't be a HUGE adjustment.  going from 4200-5000 up to 6100+ can make for a frustrating day.  Remember, the median slope is 115.  So, going from a course thats 100 up to one thats 122 is a pretty steep leap in and of itself.  I'd get comfy on the whites if you're not used to the long distances.  Your driver would be fine but your irons would make you cuss at someone, haha.  I hit my 7i 170 and try not to go above 6500.

[Chris Stewart]

I ended up playing from the white tees, as the two guys I got paired up wanted to play there anyway. Here's what I posted in the "What'd You Shoot Today" thread, for my results: Shot 93 on a par 71 (66.6/115, 5600 yards). I was hoping to break 90, and I know I'm close. My putting was atrocious today. I had numerous opportunities to score birdie, save par, or hold on for a bogey, and my putting failed me. I had never played this course and the greens were tough for me to read, to put it lightly. For instance, I was on in 2 on the par 5 8th, and proceeded to hit FIVE putts. Going from a real birdie opportunity to a double bogey was just unreal. Overall, my ball striking was good and I was happy with how I played for the most part. To know I'm so close to breaking 90 on a regulation course feels good. [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/image/id/267676/width/640/height/483][IMG]http://thesandtrap.com/image/id/267676/width/640/height/483[/IMG][/URL]

[Slappy]

Those courses are fun courses. I play both regularly. Regardless of length, you have to hit the shots. And if you want to play them longer, tee off with a shorter club.

I find the first tee to be quite challenging. The greens are small and the layout is hilly. And for the price, you can't find a course that is that well kept.

I usually play Rivers bend in Chester. You should try that course out.

[Chris Stewart]

Small world. :-) I enjoy both and you're absolutely right about First Tee Chesterfield. For the price, it's hard to beat. I really enjoy Windy Hill, especially for a quick 9 holes. I'll continue to play both and get my kids involved in the programs at the First Tee. I played at Rivers Bend earlier this year when there was a Groupon deal for it. I had a pretty bad experience there. The course was in bad shape (burned up greens, major dirt areas in the fairway, bunkers that something more like clay in them, was hard to distinguish fairway from rough), the range was a muddy mess, and I ran across a few tee boxes that hadn't been cut in awhile, so teeing it up was more like hitting from the rough. I tell you though, I did enjoy the combination of 16 and 17. The elevation changes on those two consecutive holes were fun. When I saw the Groupon, I bought it for myself (I think it was $40 for 2 on a weekend morning) and told some friends. They all said they'd had bad conditions when playing there and didn't buy even at such a discount. I was hoping they had just had one-off experiences, but I found it to be similar. I played Providence today and it was in fantastic shape, presented a number of different looks, and was reasonably priced ($49 from noon to 3pm).

[Dave2512]

I will probably be the minority opinion here but IMO golf is golf. Yeah I know, how deep. I play all over the place from private clubs with speedy greens and long rough to muni par 3's with eight 50 yd holes and one 100 yd hole. I've never felt like getting out and playing was detrimental to my game no matter where it was. Today I played a local par 3 twice, had a blast. I simply make the adjustment as needed. Today I worked on my short game.

[Chris Stewart]

I will probably be the minority opinion here but IMO golf is golf. Yeah I know, how deep. I play all over the place from private clubs with speedy greens and long rough to muni par 3's with eight 50 yd holes and one 100 yd hole. I've never felt like getting out and playing was detrimental to my game no matter where it was. Today I played a local par 3 twice, had a blast. I simply make the adjustment as needed. Today I worked on my short game.

That was pretty deep, well said. Also, I probably shouldn't have used the word "hurt", as it's not really what I'm thinking/feeling.

[golfaddiction]

I can only imagine the course you play is pretty flat (could be wrong).  The biggest difference at harder courses, I find, is that the ball is above or below your feet on almost every shot.  These shots are dumbfounding if you aren't used to them.

[BuckeyeNut]

Originally Posted by Chris Stewart

I want to get better and I want it to travel well. I just wonder at what point do I need to move on more regularly to continue to progress. I know, 100%, I'm not there yet. But at what point? When I can consistently break 40 on the 9-hole? When I'm low 70s consistently on the par 66?

Based on the above comment in bold...........you need to start playing real golf courses NOW.   If you really want your HC to travel, you need to play better courses.

There is no target average.... quit playing pitch and putt courses if you want to get to the next level.  My 2 cents.....(not trying to bust your chops)

[Dave2512]

Originally Posted by golfaddiction

I can only imagine the course you play is pretty flat (could be wrong).  The biggest difference at harder courses, I find, is that the ball is above or below your feet on almost every shot.  These shots are dumbfounding if you aren't used to them.

A valid point.

[golfaddiction]

Originally Posted by Dave2512

A valid point.

To follow up, you're not necessarily hurting yourself by playing easier courses.  You'll just be faced with new and different shots on tougher courses, such as swinging on steeper sloped ground, hitting from thicker rough, or putting on lightning fast greens.  You can't expect to hit these shots well if you haven't seen them before.

[Chris Stewart]

I can only imagine the course you play is pretty flat (could be wrong).  The biggest difference at harder courses, I find, is that the ball is above or below your feet on almost every shot.  These shots are dumbfounding if you aren't used to them.

One of them is quite hilly, but the other is generally more flat except for a tough par 5 9th that finishes very uphill. Being that I'm getting back into golf this year, I've made a point to play the vast majority of the courses in Richmond to find those that I enjoy most and to continue going to those. So, I do mix it up and play a variety of courses right now. I just lean on the above two more often for the reasons I listed above.

[Chris Stewart]

Based on the above comment in bold...........you need to start playing real golf courses NOW.   If you really want your HC to travel, you need to play better courses. There is no target average.... quit playing pitch and putt courses if you want to get to the next level.  My 2 cents.....(not trying to bust your chops)

That's what I'm thinking as well, appreciate the input.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by Chris Stewart

One of them is quite hilly, but the other is generally more flat except for a tough par 5 9th that finishes very uphill.

Being that I'm getting back into golf this year, I've made a point to play the vast majority of the courses in Richmond to find those that I enjoy most and to continue going to those. So, I do mix it up and play a variety of courses right now. I just lean on the above two more often for the reasons I listed above.

Just be realistic about the meaning of your scores.  Personally I wouldn't get too excited about any personal bests that were made on a course less than 6000 yards, but that is me.  When I've had a long layoff I play our local executive length course until I can break 80, then I go to my regular course and struggle to break 90.  LOL