Biggest problem on the golf course today?

[jetsknicks1]

Originally Posted by Dave2512

Where does anyone play that the tee time can't be paid for on-line hours before you get there? The only time I have to get my wallet out in the pro shop is if I've booked something via Golf Now and I'm there early to hit a warm up bag.

I love Golfnow.

[MrSandman]

Originally Posted by Dave2512

Where does anyone play that the tee time can't be paid for on-line hours before you get there? The only time I have to get my wallet out in the pro shop is if I've booked something via Golf Now and I'm there early to hit a warm up bag.

You obviously don't play in NYC too often.  That's the thing around here.  You check in, and then go up and pay when your group is on deck.  Pretty much because the cashier is too overwhelmed to handle the transactions.

Was in Hawaii a few weeks ago at Waikele Country Club and it took 30 minutes to check in.  No exagerrations.  And we were the first in line.  2 asian ladies that simply did not know how to work the register(s).  The line was out the door before they figured it out.

The dumbing down of pro shops is a major negative in the game today.  However, I'm not surprised that somebody defending Wal Mart is defending the dumbing down of pro shops as well.

[Dave2512]

Originally Posted by MrSandman

You obviously don't play in NYC too often.  That's the thing around here.  You check in, and then go up and pay when your group is on deck.  Pretty much because the cashier is too overwhelmed to handle the transactions.

Was in Hawaii a few weeks ago at Waikele Country Club and it took 30 minutes to check in.  No exagerrations.  And we were the first in line.  2 asian ladies that simply did not know how to work the register(s).  The line was out the door before they figured it out.

The dumbing down of pro shops is a major negative in the game today.  However, I'm not surprised that somebody defending Wal Mart is defending the dumbing down of pro shops as well.

I haven't defended Walmart and it sounds like your problem is limited to the places you choose to play. If your standards are as high as you want us to believe join a club or find a better facility, problem solved. You can't expect us to believe you have a valid concern about these things and that you expect a higher standard if you frequent places that operate that way. As I said before, you can't have it both ways. I have a tough time believing every course in NYC collects funds seconds before teeing off.

[MrSandman]

there are not many courses in NYC.  Dyker Beach and Marine Park generally have you come up and pay before you tee off.  Sometimes they will let you pay when you check in.  Depends on who is working.  Lido will never let you pay before you tee off.

I have a membership at my family's very elite private course, but it is 200+ miles away.  So I deal with what is here.  And the dumbing down of pro shops is a major downside of today's courses.

You are denying that pro shops have been dumbed down the past 20 years?  Is that your point?

And hey, some people might not mind the dumbing down of pro shops.  But to deny it exists would be incorrect.  And to say that it is not a problem, but then praise Wal Mart or Target in a subsequent post, makes that person uncredible in terms of whether they know if the problem exists.

I'm not trying to put anybody down.  But anybody who denies that the dumbing down of pro shops has been an occurance would be flat out wrong.

And don't go telling me that the dumbing down of pro shops shouldn't bother me, and then brag about shopping at Wal Mart.  You are free to shop at Wal Mart, but don't tell me that the dumbing down of pro shops should be acceptable as well.

[newtogolf]

Pro shops can't afford to pay much more than minimum wage because most golfers don't want to pay higher  equipment prices for the services.  I constantly hear people say they went to Golfsmith, Golf Galaxy, pro shop, etc  to try out some clubs and once they found the ones they hit best they shopped the internet and found a much better price and ordered them online.

Best Buy is considering blocking cell phone signals in their stores because people walk in, check out the items they are interested in buying, search online using their phone to find a cheaper price and then telling the manager to match that price or they'll order online.  How do you expect these stores to maintain high quality people when their customers expect them to match prices on the internet from businesses that have no overhead?

Originally Posted by MrSandman

The dumbing down of pro shops is a major negative in the game today.  However, I'm not surprised that somebody defending Wal Mart is defending the dumbing down of pro shops as well.

[Dave2512]

Originally Posted by MrSandman

And don't go telling me that the dumbing down of pro shops shouldn't bother me, and then brag about shopping at Wal Mart.  You are free to shop at Wal Mart, but don't tell me that the dumbing down of pro shops should be acceptable as well.

I'm not denying anything, simply stating the problem appears to be local and unique to you. I'm not seeing it here and I don't think the quality of muni customer service has slipped since the good old days. I'm still swinging clubs at the course I learned how to play on in the 70's. If anything the quality of the entire facility has improved. In fact I am attending the dedication of the newly built clubhouse on Sat as a guest of the director. However there is something ironic about you accusing me of being a Walmart apologist, I haven't admitted to shopping at Walmart.

[RPMPIRE]

I do agree that pro shops have been lack luster today but I think they're suffering from the same situation as Walmart (Golf Galaxy, Golf Smith, etc) vs. Mom and Pop stores (Pro shops). Every pro shop I've been to charges premiums on everything - I saw a sleeve of Pro V1s and Nike 20XIs go for $15/sleeve and $60 per dozen while other larger golf stores sell for a lot cheaper. Same goes with gloves, shoes, equipment, etc. Golf is an expensive sport and in this economy I think some people would rather get a good deal elsewhere than to pay premiums at a pro shop.

I don't experience a lot of pro shops having just any Joe Schmo behind the counter checking people in. Most that I've experienced are pretty knowledgeable about golf. The only problem I had with any pro shop was having young high school golfers (obvious good, low handicap golfers) check people with a very rude attitude thinking they're better than you because they can shoot a lower round than 90% of people that play that day. But they're young and immature and probably won't make it to the PGA tour.

[MrSandman]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Pro shops can't afford to pay much more than minimum wage because most golfers don't want to pay higher  equipment prices for the services.  I constantly hear people say they went to Golfsmith, Golf Galaxy, pro shop, etc  to try out some clubs and once they found the ones they hit best they shopped the internet and found a much better price and ordered them online.

Best Buy is considering blocking cell phone signals in their stores because people walk in, check out the items they are interested in buying, search online using their phone to find a cheaper price and then telling the manager to match that price or they'll order online.  How do you expect these stores to maintain high quality people when their customers expect them to match prices on the internet from businesses that have no overhead?

You are correct.  We all know why it happened.  20 years ago, you had to buy your pings or titleist or other high end clubs at a green grass facility.  Then taylor made took the plunge to non-green grass retailers and the pro shops lost a lot of revenue.

As a result, the pro shop staff has been significantly dumbed down.

This is not a good thing.  It was better when the pro shop staff employed more golf nerds who actually knew how to re-grip a club or help a customer select a ball or make sure that the shop to starter nexus was moving smoothly.

I don't understand two things in this thread:

1.  those who are denying this has happened, and

2.  those who are denying this is a bad thing (although, then some of those who are denying this is a bad thing are bragging about Wal Mart and Target, so take it for what it is worth)

[MrSandman]

Originally Posted by Dave2512

I'm not denying anything, simply stating the problem appears to be local and unique to you. I'm not seeing it here and I don't think the quality of muni customer service has slipped since the good old days. I'm still swinging clubs at the course I learned how to play on in the 70's. If anything the quality of the entire facility has improved. In fact I am attending the dedication of the newly built clubhouse on Sat as a guest of the director. However there is something ironic about you accusing me of being a Walmart apologist, I haven't admitted to shopping at Walmart.

That's good to hear.

I have noticed that in more golf centric areas, like when I visit Florida in the winter, the staffs seem to be more attentive and trained and passionate about the game.  I like to hear that this is the case elsewhere.

[Dave2512]

I was away from golf for a while, about 15 yrs. But I don't ever remember seeing a great pro shop back in the day. Certainly not one that had lots of stock and offered competitively priced goods. I do remember paying too much for decent balls, gloves and other stuff. Once you're there you have no choice, the mark up on those items has always been excessive at the pro shop. Back then most of the courses were staffed by city and county employees. Odds were the lady taking your money for range balls and a round also worked at the swimming pool down the road. The independent course that wasn't private was a rarity in my glory days. I certainly don't remember ever seeing the house pro working a counter or performing customer service duties anywhere. It's not the way things work. When you go to the bank you don't expect the branch manager to take your deposit. That's what tellers are for.

[Dave2512]

Originally Posted by MrSandman

That's good to hear.

I have noticed that in more golf centric areas, like when I visit Florida in the winter, the staffs seem to be more attentive and trained and passionate about the game.  I like to hear that this is the case elsewhere.

Probably worthwhile to mention I live in CO. The quality of the golf scene here is high. Even the muni's with bad reps are still pretty darn nice.

[MrSandman]

even the local municipal courses, from my recollection, through most of the 1990's had pretty reliable pro shop staffs.  When their revenue was slashed by non-green grass courses being allowed to distribute high end clubs, it has taken a major dip.

[MrSandman]

on another note, the NYC municipal courses are generally in great shape lately.  They put a lot of money into them recently.  Dyker Beach is generally very plush.  Marine Park's greens roll great and they have put some quality work into the tee to green areas (although I kind of like that course a little shaggy off the greens).  La Tourette has been nice for a few years now.  I think the Queens and Bronx ones have also received good cash infusions to the maintenance.

Lido (not NYC, but one of the closer ones) is still trash.  No excuse for that place to be such a dump.  Lay out is real nice, location is great, pace of play is unbearable and the condition is brutal.

[ZigZag]

Drunks. They give me the you know what.

[jetsknicks1]

Originally Posted by MrSandman

there are not many courses in NYC.  Dyker Beach and Marine Park generally have you come up and pay before you tee off.  Sometimes they will let you pay when you check in.  Depends on who is working.  Lido will never let you pay before you tee off.

I have a membership at my family's very elite private course, but it is 200+ miles away.  .  And the dumbinSo I deal with what is hereg down of pro shops is a major downside of today's courses.

You are denying that pro shops have been dumbed down the past 20 years?  Is that your point?

And hey, some people might not mind the dumbing down of pro shops.  But to deny it exists would be incorrect.  And to say that it is not a problem, but then praise Wal Mart or Target in a subsequent post, makes that person uncredible in terms of whether they know if the problem exists.

I'm not trying to put anybody down.  But anybody who denies that the dumbing down of pro shops has been an occurance would be flat out wrong.

And don't go telling me that the dumbing down of pro shops shouldn't bother me, and then brag about shopping at Wal Mart.  You are free to shop at Wal Mart, but don't tell me that the dumbing down of pro shops should be acceptable as well.

**To the mods, I apologize in adavance***

Everything in this post just shows how much of a pretensious(sp) douchebag you are. Go play your "Very elite" club, stay out of WalMart, stay out of Target and leave the rest of us alone. You're only here to make some pathetic attempt to show everybody how special you are and to argue.

[newtogolf]

Pro shops used to be the only option you had to purchase certain clubs like Titleist and Mizuno.  The staff was golf smart and service oriented so when someone walked in they had a good experience.  I had many positive experiences in Myrtle Beach at some of the pro shops there.

Today, as Sandman points out, most pro shops are like 7-11.  They charge a premium because they know if you're buying something there it's because you forgot to bring something with you and have no other choice.  Todays pro shop staff is either very young or very old with little to no knowledge about golf, they just know how to run the cash register.  The on-course pro is the only person in the store that knows anything about golf equipment and he's out at the range hawking lessons 80% of the time so he's useless to anyone in the store interested in buying something.

As for it being a negative for golf overall, I don't place it high on the list.  I think it's a negative to anyone on a golf trip that loses or breaks a club and needs a replacement, but otherwise most golfers know the pro shops are like 7-11's and if they run out of balls or need a new hat they won't be expecting much assistance and will be paying a premium.

Quote:

I was away from golf for a while, about 15 yrs. But I don't ever remember seeing a great pro shop back in the day. Certainly not one that had lots of stock and offered competitively priced goods. I do remember paying too much for decent balls, gloves and other stuff. Once you're there you have no choice, the mark up on those items has always been excessive at the pro shop. Back then most of the courses were staffed by city and county employees. Odds were the lady taking your money for range balls and a round also worked at the swimming pool down the road. The independent course that wasn't private was a rarity in my glory days. I certainly don't remember ever seeing the house pro working a counter or performing customer service duties anywhere. It's not the way things work. When you go to the bank you don't expect the branch manager to take your deposit. That's what tellers are for.

[MrSandman]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Pro shops used to be the only option you had to purchase certain clubs like Titleist and Mizuno.  The staff was golf smart and service oriented so when someone walked in they had a good experience.  I had many positive experiences in Myrtle Beach at some of the pro shops there.

Today, as Sandman points out, most pro shops are like 7-11.  They charge a premium because they know if you're buying something there it's because you forgot to bring something with you and have no other choice.  Todays pro shop staff is either very young or very old with little to no knowledge about golf, they just know how to run the cash register.  The on-course pro is the only person in the store that knows anything about golf equipment and he's out at the range hawking lessons 80% of the time so he's useless to anyone in the store interested in buying something.

As for it being a negative for golf overall, I don't place it high on the list.  I think it's a negative to anyone on a golf trip that loses or breaks a club and needs a replacement, but otherwise most golfers know the pro shops are like 7-11's and if they run out of balls or need a new hat they won't be expecting much assistance and will be paying a premium.

Quote:

Exactly.  I think I have posted the same thing a few times.  But we keep hearing that there is nothing wrong with Wal Mart or Target, so we should just be happy with what we get at the pro shops in the new era of non-green grass retailers.

I miss the days when the pro shop was a pleasant experience.  A gathering place where everybody knew each other's name, and service was a priority and quality was a plus.

[MrSandman]

I went to Marine Park recently, all set to drop a few hundred on a pair of hybrids.  first, the only selection Hunter had was Taylor Made (the brand that took down the pro shop revenue 15 years ago).  second, the idiot behind the counter wouldn't let me demo a couple of them first.  Their range is short, but they have an angle where you can hit hybrids as a demo.  Idiot was saying that Hunter had to be there for anyone to touch any of the clubs.  No skin off my back, as I wasn't sure if Taylor Made was what I was looking for.  I hopped in the car, went to Chelsea Piers, hit a couple of Adams hybrids and a Ping and a Callaway for a good 30-45 minutes.  Bought a pair of Adams hybrids from them and their extremely helpful staff instead.  Also purchased a pair of shoes, three dozen balls, a few older us open dvds and a couple gloves.  Pays to have a helpful staff who has pride in their work.

There used to be a time when being a driving range pro or working the driving range had a stigma attached, and the courses were the place to be.  Seems like those times have changed a bit, at least in NY.  Now the knowledgeable staff is at the ranges and the retail stores, and the green grass pro shop staff are a bunch of deadbeats who can't find another minimum wage job.