Stopping an outside/in swing pattern with the driver. Tip from pro helped, but is it a fix or a bandaid?

[Derek Ong]

Originally Posted by Adam Young

...But this isn't the only way. many ways to skin a cat

Absolutely in agreement with you there.

I wish i could swing more right with the driver and not open my clubface at the same time. It's very difficult to do, at least for me.

Anyways, i keep a basic baseline for the driver that i play around with: In a normal perfect swing of the driver, by anyone, where the ball starts towards the target, it's a fade; who would have thought about that before the D-plane?

[Adam Young]

Originally Posted by Derek Ong

I wish i could swing more right with the driver and not open my clubface at the same time. It's very difficult to do, at least for me.

I'll be honest the same thing happens to me. When I swing more right, my face angle tends to go alng with it to a large extent. But my 'right swing' is always accompanied with a little more 'topspin' feeling to bring the face back in. I did train it, but now its just a subconscious feel. All i have to do is visualise the flight of the ball and both happen at the same time. Then i basically do what you said earlier to hit a drwa, i calibrate the face angle until its the shape I want.

It's gotta be a feel though. These guys who talk numbers, sure I understand the numbers. to hit a draw the path has to be 3 degrees to the right and clubface 2 degrees to the right. but how you do this and how it FEELS is much more important than knowing that stuff. Beofre i learned about d plane, i could still hit any shape i wanted and have great control. The rule has always been the same for me. swing where i want the ball to start and then fiddle the face angle (through feels) until it lands on the target. Practice it until it is automatic, then get out of the way of myself on the course.

So if i wanna hit a draw, i swing more right and then tinker the face until it is curving the right amount. Vice versa for a fade. And i have many ways to do each - trap draw, trap fade, shallow draw, shallow fade, weak grips, strong grips, more/less rotation, shutting or opening face at address etc

[Derek Ong]

Originally Posted by Adam Young

It's gotta be a feel though. T

So if i wanna hit a draw, i swing more right and then tinker the face until it is curving the right amount. Vice versa for a fade. And i have many ways to do each - trap draw, trap fade, shallow draw, shallow fade, weak grips, strong grips, more/less rotation, shutting or opening face at address etc

About the feel, i agree again. I don't have access to Trackman so when i read/hear about numbers, i can only imagine and try to relate it to something i can see/feel.

About the last para, i do similar things as well (tinkering the face) but can't really do as many shapes as you listed here. My eureka moment in my golf adventure just happened last year and i still have a fun and hopefully long journey ahead of me

[Adam Young]

Originally Posted by Derek Ong

About the feel, i agree again. I don't have access to Trackman so when i read/hear about numbers, i can only imagine and try to relate it to something i can see/feel.

About the last para, i do similar things as well (tinkering the face) but can't really do as many shapes as you listed here. My eureka moment in my golf adventure just happened last year and i still have a fun and hopefully long journey ahead of me

What was your eureka moment?

I have been tinkering with trackman a lot and have found that it only confirms what i said. And it is different for everyone. Some people swing more right and the clubface doesnt move, sometimes it even closes more than normal. most, like us, tend to drag the face along with the path. I hardly ever see it go more that the path change, but around 90% is average.

But playing with numbers is stupid anyway. you cant say that +2 and +3 is optimum because it varies with the backspin rate, disatnce hit and loft and angle of attack etc. Its a complicated mixture of a load of things. It better to play with a feel, and refine the feel as that is basically the subconscious trying to co-ordinate all of the peices together in a nice little package.

The only time that isnt true is when people sometimes dont understand the reasons for ball flight. say for example a slicer who thinks swinging more left will fix his slice. but sure, you can add a little more clubface rotation to a slicer and his slice turns into an on target fade.

Since when did hitting a rock with a stick become so complicated???

[umpiremark]

Originally Posted by ApocG10

The fix? Move my rear foot back about 2 inches (not wider, back from the ball). I drove the last two rounds better then I ever have. I was no longer scared to pull my driver out of the bag, because I knew I was playing a small fade with good contact. So, is this a legitimate way to  fix a swing problem, or is it it just masking an inherent flaw. I would much rather fix the flaws than hide them. I even matched my best ever round of 78 doing this.

Maybe it's the plethora of drugs I took in the '60's, but this makes no sense to me at all. Maybe someone can help me out of my flawed thinking on this.

For simplicity, let's use the face of a clock, where the target line is 6:00 to 12:00. Your slice is caused by your swing plane moving from 5:00 to 11:00. The ball travels from the center of the clock, over 12:00 and slices to 1:00 somewhere out there (for simple math). Correct?

If you back up your rear foot, your stance is now pointed as if the target line was 7:00 to 1:00, right? Your "new" swing plane is 6:00 to 12:00 but the path of the club and over the top swing remains the same. Now the ball will start from the center of the clock and move over 1:00 and slice to 2:00 because all you've accomplished is turn your taget line 1 hour to the right. Right? If you've changed nothing in swing mechanics, grip, plane, etc., etc., all you've managed to do in this example is shift everything to the right, where your error is going anyways. Again, I fail to understand the logic here.

Again, I took a lot of the blue ones and a few of the green ones in 1969, but if my methodology of understanding this "advice" is incorrect, please someone help me out.

Thanks!

[Adam Young]

Originally Posted by umpiremark

Maybe it's the plethora of drugs I took in the '60's, but this makes no sense to me at all. Maybe someone can help me out of my flawed thinking on this.

For simplicity, let's use the face of a clock, where the target line is 6:00 to 12:00. Your slice is caused by your swing plane moving from 5:00 to 11:00. The ball travels from the center of the clock, over 12:00 and slices to 1:00 somewhere out there (for simple math). Correct?

If you back up your rear foot, your stance is now pointed as if the target line was 7:00 to 1:00, right? Your "new" swing plane is 6:00 to 12:00 but the path of the club and over the top swing remains the same. Now the ball will start from the center of the clock and move over 1:00 and slice to 2:00 because all you've accomplished is turn your taget line 1 hour to the right. Right? If you've changed nothing in swing mechanics, grip, plane, etc., etc., all you've managed to do in this example is shift everything to the right, where your error is going anyways. Again, I fail to understand the logic here.

Again, I took a lot of the blue ones and a few of the green ones in 1969, but if my methodology of understanding this "advice" is incorrect, please someone help me out.

Thanks!

you are sorta right. But in reality (and in this case) what happens is that the foot alone moves back, the shoulders stay there, in the old aignemtn. With the back foot pulled back, the club path tends to come a little more from the inside. Also, with the back foot back, this can sometimes put the body in a position that the hands are forced to release a bit better leading to a move closed face.

It's 50,50 whether this works or not. In this guys case it did, but i have seen the same tip work out like your theoretcial golfer . In my view it is better to educate yourself on how to control the path and face rather than be forced into a position with no idea of why it really works.

[Derek Ong]

Great stuff from Adam again. Education on d-plane makes it as simple as it should be. :-D

[Goonsidious]

with all these new swings, footing, posture, even after having a few good days at the range.. i feel like i'm so lost.

I need to start taking notes while Im practicing.. so I can remember and continue.

[Adam Young]

Originally Posted by Goonsidious

with all these new swings, footing, posture, even after having a few good days at the range.. i feel like i'm so lost.

I need to start taking notes while Im practicing.. so I can remember and continue.

Golf is simple, most of direction is controlled by clubface. Learn a few methods to control it (rotation, hold off, grip variations and address position variations) and experiment with different amounts of each.

After that (or rather before that) work on striking the ball from the middle of the face (its a skill not a technique) and hitting the ground in the right palce. Get those three things and you are laughing. Throw in a good swing path (usually a result of good clubface control ) and you are on tour

[RonTheSavage]

In this stupid stupid stupid game, just do what works. Good Luck going forward.

[Goonsidious]

And make sure what you do that works.. can be used later down the line, without sore backs, knees, or pulled muscles.

I dread the day I have to change my entire game when I become 40yrs+ or whenever my body decides to be a pest.

[Isitthegenes]

In looking through all of this, I'm not entirely sure how much of it I can apply - I'm not entirely sure if I have an inside-out or an outside-in.  Is a slice fully indicative of an inside out?  I've started adapting to a slight change in my grip (my left-hand v was not pointed at my right shoulder) as well as trying to loosen up some.  One recent round, I apparently had it all going, but this last one - I hit maybe two decent drives off the tee.

One thing I noticed in the image from Hogan is the left foot angled instead of pointing straight at the swing plane.  I've always kept both feet pointed straight forward and wonder if I've been wrong to do this?

[Goonsidious]

your body is able to be more flexible in twisting with your feet facing slightly off line. So yes.. you dont need your feet pointing straight in the balls direction, try out a more relaxed stance.. it might work for you.

[Mr. Desmond]

You might also close your shoulders and hips so they are square

[Derek Ong]

[QUOTE][/QUOTE][quote name="Isitthegenes" url="/t/59604/stopping-an-outside-in-swing-pattern-with-the-driver-tip-from-pro-helped-but-is-it-a-fix-or-a-bandaid/18#post_732895"]In looking through all of this, I'm not entirely sure how much of it I can apply - I'm not entirely sure if I have an inside-out or an outside-in.  Is a slice fully indicative of an inside out? [/quote] Depends. Are you referring to your driver? If you are, and your are doing slices that start at the target, then that's maybe because of a little too much out to in. If you're fading the ball that starts at the target, then you have a normal good swing. If you push slice, it indicates everything is wrong. Your club face is way too open at impact and have a out to in swing. If you push fade, just your club face is too open at impact. If you hit it dead straight, you didn't hit it on the way up. If you hit a straight pull, you hit the perfect shot. For me, knowing the above, I can easily diagnose my problem on the course or range and change one or two things to limit the severity. Also, it also allows me to have some idea how to really shape the ball by changing BIG things that are easy to see and feel.

[Isitthegenes]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Ong

Quote:

Depends. Are you referring to your driver?
If you are, and your are doing slices that start at the target, then that's maybe because of a little too much out to in. If you're fading the ball that starts at the target, then you have a normal good swing.
If you push slice, it indicates everything is wrong. Your club face is way too open at impact and have a out to in swing.
If you push fade, just your club face is too open at impact.
If you hit it dead straight, you didn't hit it on the way up.
If you hit a straight pull, you hit the perfect shot.
For me, knowing the above, I can easily diagnose my problem on the course or range and change one or two things to limit the severity. Also, it also allows me to have some idea how to really shape the ball by changing BIG things that are easy to see and feel.

Off the tee, when I hit the slice, it generally does start at the target.  I think I need a little clarification on what defines a pull...Is a pull a shot that starts left, but fades towards the target?  When I'm on, that's what I hit the most with the occasional straight shot in there.  Bad shots tend to be a slice or a hook, with the hook being the result of my turn, I think.  I'm heading out to the range in the next few days to work on opening the front foot and sliding the back foot slightly back.

[Derek Ong]

When i mentioned "pull" i meant a straight shot that starts left and ends left. There are so many things that will cause what you're seeing and it's really difficult for anyone here to give any specific "opinions" without seeing your swing. Perhaps if you post your driver swing, someone can give some two cents.

[sebsmash]

I recently realized that I actually stand with my right foot too far forward,

Now that I have fixed this I am hitting more fairways than ever.

By dropping my right foot back to a little behind even I am able to minimize my slice to a fade.