Anchored Putters Rules Change (Effective January 1, 2016)

[Texian]

Originally Posted by dave67az

It doesn't take a lawyer to know the difference between "anchored against the body" or "brushing against the body" and "intent" has absolutely NOTHING to do with it.

Are you saying you don't understand the difference?

I'm saying that if my arm is in contact with my shirt, and my opponent believes it was in contact with my body, he may believe I was intentionally breaking the rule when in fact I was intentionally avoiding contact with my body.

[dave67az]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

So you use a legal stroke, but you're opposed to the rule because your golf buddies might accuse you of an illegal stroke because you brushed against your torso unintentionally (I'll assume for both our sakes the rest of the post is sarcasm).  Really?  I'd find new golf buddies if they are so untrusting that they'd call you on a penalty that's clearly not.

What I find hilarious is that he keeps talking about "intent" as though it is relevant.

If you're playing with 15 clubs, it doesn't matter if you intended to or not, it's a penalty.

If you accidentally hit the ball twice during a single stroke, it doesn't matter if you intended to or not, it's two strokes.

You do understand that intent isn't a consideration for MANY of golf's rules, right?

The rules are pretty clear.  Well...for most of us apparently.

[dave67az]

Originally Posted by Texian

I'm saying that if my arm is in contact with my shirt, and my opponent believes it was in contact with my body, he may believe I was intentionally breaking the rule when in fact I was intentionally avoiding contact with my body.

So, your playing partners are too stupid to tell the difference between the body and clothing?  I'm pretty sure I can look at someone and tell whether or not clothing is against the skin.  I'm pretty sure you can, too.

I guess if you choose to play with them, you can deal with the consequences.

But don't blame it on the rules if your opponents are morons.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by JerseyThursday

So, if Luke Donald got one and practiced a lot with it he would be even a better putter?

You should never ever use the word logic again, when you put forth this level or argument.  NO ONE has argued that EVERY SINGLE PLAYER would putt better with one.  But they are OBVIOUSLY an advantage for the players that use it, or at least they perceive that is the case.  Luke Donald probably would not "putt" better with a pool cue, but that is not an argument for making pool cue putting legal.

It isn't about being an advantage, it is about what constitutes a stroke.

Now you can make up another strawman situation to swat in your evident (mistaken) belief that it will make your argument more convincing.  Or just keep repeating the same one, as you have been doing to this point.

[Texian]

Evidence of the rightness of this proposed change, stated here, has included statements by Tiger Woods that he supports the proposed change. Most of those commenting here so far seem to believe it's because he thinks it's "for the good of the game" as the USGA would try to have us believe by using that slogan on their Web site and in their announcement.

If he was so interested in "the good of the game," why didn't he speak out before his competitors began denying him major victories with long putters?

And why are we ignoring the other comments? This is from a recent article quoting Phil Mickelson:

Phil Mickelson is aligned with the players who oppose the possible ban of long putters. From the site of this week's $6 million Barclays Singapore Open, a European Tour event that starts Thursday, the four-time major winner said such a move would be "grossly unfair."

"It's not an issue that I'm involved with, I understand both sides," he told reporters. "It's just that I don't think you can take away what you've allowed players to use, practice and play with for 30 years. I think it is grossly unfair."

If it comes down to the integrity of the game, or integrity of those who play it, I'll take Mickelson over Woods any day.

[Texian]

Originally Posted by dave67az

What I find hilarious is that he keeps talking about "intent" as though it is relevant.

If you're playing with 15 clubs, it doesn't matter if you intended to or not, it's a penalty.

If you accidentally hit the ball twice during a single stroke, it doesn't matter if you intended to or not, it's two strokes.

You do understand that intent isn't a consideration for MANY of golf's rules, right?

The rules are pretty clear.  Well...for most of us apparently.

What you don't understand is that "intent" IS a consideration of this rule.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by Texian

Evidence of the rightness of this proposed change, stated here, has included statements by Tiger Woods that he supports the proposed change. Most of those commenting here so far seem to believe it's because he thinks it's "for the good of the game" as the USGA would try to have us believe by using that slogan on their Web site and in their announcement.

If he was so interested in "the good of the game," why didn't he speak out before his competitors began denying him major victories with long putters?

And why are we ignoring the other comments? This is from a recent article quoting Phil Mickelson:

Phil Mickelson is aligned with the players who oppose the possible ban of long putters. From the site of this week's $6 million Barclays Singapore Open, a European Tour event that starts Thursday, the four-time major winner said such a move would be "grossly unfair."

"It's not an issue that I'm involved with, I understand both sides," he told reporters. "It's just that I don't think you can take away what you've allowed players to use, practice and play with for 30 years. I think it is grossly unfair."

If it comes down to the integrity of the game, or integrity of those who play it, I'll take Mickelson over Woods any day.

As I recall, 3 guys have won with the anchored putter in the last few years:  Webb Simpson, Keegan Bradley, and Ernie Els.

When Webb Simpson won the US Open several regular putter guys finished behind him but ahead of Tiger.

When Keegan Bradley won the PGA  many regular putter guys finished behind Bradley but ahead of Tiger.

When Ernie Els won the British Open Tiger finished tied for 3rd with Brandt Snedeker who if memory serves, uses a regular putter.

So just who are these mythical anchored putter users who have denied Tiger a major?

As far as Phil is concerned, he has always had a bug up his behind about the USGA probably based on his inability to win their premier championship.  If you will recall he used a loophole to tweak them about the groove rule change and he claimed they were responsible for injuring him by making the rough to tough at a US Open.I

I still find it hard to believe that your participation in this thread and the "arguments" you are making are solely motivated by your concern about your arms or putter brushing against your shirt.  Or is this just another thing you are not making up as you are making it up.

[JerseyThursday]

Originally Posted by turtleback

You should never ever use the word logic again, when you put forth this level or argument.  NO ONE has argued that EVERY SINGLE PLAYER would putt better with one.  But they are OBVIOUSLY an advantage for the players that use it, or at least they perceive that is the case.  Luke Donald probably would not "putt" better with a pool cue, but that is not an argument for making pool cue putting legal.

It isn't about being an advantage, it is about what constitutes a stroke.

Now you can make up another strawman situation to swat in your evident (mistaken) belief that it will make your argument more convincing.  Or just keep repeating the same one, as you have been doing to this point.

Do you only read your (and my threads)?

Person after person here has stated it should be banned because putting from an anchored point provides an advantage over the person with free swinging arms.

[Texian]

Originally Posted by turtleback

So just who are these mythical anchored putter users who have denied Tiger a major?

As far as Phil is concerned, he has always had a bug up his behind about the USGA probably based on his inability to win their premier championship.  If you will recall he used a loophole to tweak them about the groove rule change and he claimed they were responsible for injuring him by making the rough to tough at a US Open.I

I didn't say Tiger finished second in any major to someone who won with a long putter. But asking me to believe that Phil's supposed dislike for the USGA  is the reason he says the proposed change is "unfair" is a far greater stretch than me suggesting that Tiger's opposition is because he's concerned golfers using long putters will deny him Jack's record.

[Valleygolfer]

This has gotten stupid. I think jerseythursday just likes to argue and Texian if you are so worried about being accused of cheating, stop using the 1 time club championship putter and go back to the 10 time championship putter.

I guess if you two want to continue to progress in an ignorant fashion, I am out.

[JerseyThursday]

Originally Posted by turtleback

As far as Phil is concerned, he has always had a bug up his behind about the USGA probably based on his inability to win their premier championship.  If you will recall he used a loophole to tweak them about the groove rule change and he claimed they were responsible for injuring him by making the rough to tough at a US Open.I

Good call.
Phil thinking the golfer should have a choice when choice a putting method has all to do with a hidden agenda against the USGA.

[Texian]

Originally Posted by JerseyThursday

Person after person here has stated it should be banned because putting from an anchored point provides an advantage over the person with free swinging arms.

So you're telling me that the USGA's illustration of what would be legal, captioned "FOREARMS HELD AGAINST THE BODY," shows "free swinging arms"?

[JerseyThursday]

Originally Posted by Texian

So you're telling me that the USGA's illustration of what would be legal, captioned "FOREARMS HELD AGAINST THE BODY," shows "free swinging arms"?

Laughably, in their minds yes.

[Texian]

Originally Posted by Valleygolfer

This has gotten stupid. I think jerseythursday just likes to argue and Texian if you are so worried about being accused of cheating, stop using the 1 time club championship putter and go back to the 10 time championship putter.

I guess if you two want to continue to progress in an ignorant fashion, I am out.

For the fourth or fifth time, I'm not going to change because my long putter stroke would continue to be legal. At my age, and having experienced all the missed putts I have, it's a better system for me. I just don't think Keegan Bradley, Webb Simpson, Ernie Els, Bernhard Langer,  Fred Couples, Carl Pettersson and Tim Clark, among others, should be forced to.

Bill Haas, who has won with both and switched back to conventional this year, doesn't think the rule needs to be changed.

[notsohard]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

Has anybody been quoted to that effect since word of the decision came out?

rumours in the camp.....but i doubt they will be successful

[Texian]

Originally Posted by Valleygolfer

I guess if you two want to continue to progress in an ignorant fashion, I am out.

What's ignorant is looking at an illustration that plainly shows and states that the forearms are "held against the body" and saying that the arms are "free swinging."

[JerseyThursday]

Originally Posted by Valleygolfer

This has gotten stupid. I think jerseythursday just likes to argue and Texian if you are so worried about being accused of cheating, stop using the 1 time club championship putter and go back to the 10 time championship putter.

I guess if you two want to continue to progress in an ignorant fashion, I am out.

I’m out of the thread also.
Won’t insult anyone as I leave though.

[Texian]

Originally Posted by JerseyThursday

I’m out of the thread also.

Won’t insult anyone as I leave though.

Me too.

Good night, Mrs. Calabash, wherever you are.

That's Jimmy Durante's sign-off, for you guys who've never had anything but sliced bread.

Oh, Jimmy Durante was...

Never mind. Look him up on Google.