My Swing (MonarchGolf2010)

[MonarchGolf2010]

Originally Posted by nevets88

Thanks for the videos!

When you practiced this, how did you gauge how well you are doing? What kind of ball flight were you looking for? Less curvature? Do you pay attention to height on 1/2 shots?

This is one thing I practiced basically without hitting balls.  I knew I was improving because my start lines were tighter and there was less curvature.  But, the only thing I did to practice this was rehearsing the moveaway, hands only.

[Beachcomber]

Liam, that second video you linked was very helpful.  So just to be clear, you are intentionally 'cupping' the left wrist - and maintaining that in the back swing to help with the stock fade?  I ask as I bow my wrist - exactly like you depicted in the first part of the 2nd video.

[MonarchGolf2010]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

Liam, that second video you linked was very helpful.  So just to be clear, you are intentionally 'cupping' the left wrist - and maintaining that in the back swing to help with the stock fade?  I ask as I bow my wrist - exactly like you depicted in the first part of the 2nd video.

I do not intentionally cup my left wrist, although this is something talked about in Hogan's 5 lessons, as something he did to help him fade it.  If you maintain some cup, or get your left wrist flatter (less bowed) it will be easier for you to hit a fade.  With a bowed left wrist it is difficult to swing left enough to create a fade because the bowed left wrist inherently makes the club swing to the right.

[JetFan1983]

Originally Posted by MonarchGolf2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

Liam, that second video you linked was very helpful.  So just to be clear, you are intentionally 'cupping' the left wrist - and maintaining that in the back swing to help with the stock fade?  I ask as I bow my wrist - exactly like you depicted in the first part of the 2nd video.

I do not intentionally cup my left wrist, although this is something talked about in Hogan's 5 lessons, as something he did to help him fade it.  If you maintain some cup, or get your left wrist flatter (less bowed) it will be easier for you to hit a fade.  With a bowed left wrist it is difficult to swing left enough to create a fade because the bowed left wrist inherently makes the club swing to the right.

Makes sense to me. I've been told by my Stack and Tilt handlers to reduce my wrist bowing. I play a draw though, so it's okay. There's just too much push-draw curve, so I'm working towards reducing it. I have to feel like I'm throwing the wedge away right now, and I like the results.

Thanks for the comments about this. I've always been interested in fading the golf ball, and now I have a simple explanation as to one aspect I would have to change in my swing in order to do so. From what I can tell, bowing is great for poor players and bad for good players -- guys like Claude Harmon, Dustin Johnson, Robert Garrigus, and Graeme McDowell excluded of course because it obviously works at any level, but only if it fits your pattern.

Thanks for all your info. Flat left wrist throughout the swing definitely can never be wrong for a stock shot.

PS- I live near Colts Neck, so I need to meet up with Mario one of these days.... I keep saying that, so this will be the last time I do until I actually do see him for a lesson.

[MonarchGolf2010]

Originally Posted by JetFan1983

Makes sense to me. I've been told by my Stack and Tilt handlers to reduce my wrist bowing. I play a draw though, so it's okay. There's just too much push-draw curve, so I'm working towards reducing it. I have to feel like I'm throwing the wedge away right now, and I like the results.

Thanks for the comments about this. I've always been interested in fading the golf ball, and now I have a simple explanation as to one aspect I would have to change in my swing in order to do so. From what I can tell, bowing is great for poor players and bad for good players -- guys like Claude Harmon, Dustin Johnson, Robert Garrigus, and Graeme McDowell excluded of course because it obviously works at any level, but only if it fits your pattern.

Thanks for all your info. Flat left wrist throughout the swing definitely can never be wrong for a stock shot.

PS- I live near Colts Neck, so I need to meet up with Mario one of these days.... I keep saying that, so this will be the last time I do until I actually do see him for a lesson.

I have a fitting in Fairhaven November 2, so I am looking to head down to Colts Neck on the 3rd or 4th and hang out with Marbs for 3 or 4 days.  Ill be around!

[JetFan1983]

Originally Posted by MonarchGolf2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetFan1983

Makes sense to me. I've been told by my Stack and Tilt handlers to reduce my wrist bowing. I play a draw though, so it's okay. There's just too much push-draw curve, so I'm working towards reducing it. I have to feel like I'm throwing the wedge away right now, and I like the results.

Thanks for the comments about this. I've always been interested in fading the golf ball, and now I have a simple explanation as to one aspect I would have to change in my swing in order to do so. From what I can tell, bowing is great for poor players and bad for good players -- guys like Claude Harmon, Dustin Johnson, Robert Garrigus, and Graeme McDowell excluded of course because it obviously works at any level, but only if it fits your pattern.

Thanks for all your info. Flat left wrist throughout the swing definitely can never be wrong for a stock shot.

PS- I live near Colts Neck, so I need to meet up with Mario one of these days.... I keep saying that, so this will be the last time I do until I actually do see him for a lesson.

I have a fitting in Fairhaven November 2, so I am looking to head down to Colts Neck on the 3rd or 4th and hang out with Marbs for 3 or 4 days.  Ill be around!

I didn't even realize there was a good clubfitter in Fair Haven. Wow. I should check that out.

Haha, that'd be cool. I've always wanted to check out Trump National. Plus Mario is very highly regarded here as an excellent instructor. I always play at Hominy Hill and Pebble Creek, which are the two public courses there, both two minutes from Trump. You should go grab some horrendously bad calories at Delicious Orchards while you are there. Great pastries, donuts and pies there. Right next to Trump. That place is legendary in these parts.

[mdl]

This wrist issue has always confused me, and I'm still confused!

I don't understand the relationship between the first and second instructional videos you posted.  A good top hand grip, like you have in the 2nd video, has the grip mostly in the fingers and the hand then sort of rolled over, so the thumb is towards your right from the center line of the grip and your wrist is a bit cupped.  You advocate essentially keeping the degree of cupping into P2 to come back on plane.  But the first instructional video and the pros here advocate a flat wrist at the top and through the down swing and at impact (and you more or less do that in your most recent swing video, or are at least much flatter than at setup).

When I work on what you talk about in the 2nd instructional video to get my hands deep and avoid rolling over and getting way under plane, I have a really hard time ever getting to a flat wrist at the top and end up pointing way right of my target at the top.  When I don't work on that I tend to come back under plane.  Any keys or recs on how to both keep that wrist flexion through P2 to come back on plane and get to a flat wrist with the club pointing down the target line at P4?

Thanks!

[MonarchGolf2010]

Originally Posted by mdl

This wrist issue has always confused me, and I'm still confused!

I don't understand the relationship between the first and second instructional videos you posted.  A good top hand grip, like you have in the 2nd video, has the grip mostly in the fingers and the hand then sort of rolled over, so the thumb is towards your right from the center line of the grip and your wrist is a bit cupped.  You advocate essentially keeping the degree of cupping into P2 to come back on plane.  But the first instructional video and the pros here advocate a flat wrist at the top and through the down swing and at impact (and you more or less do that in your most recent swing video, or are at least much flatter than at setup).

When I work on what you talk about in the 2nd instructional video to get my hands deep and avoid rolling over and getting way under plane, I have a really hard time ever getting to a flat wrist at the top and end up pointing way right of my target at the top.  When I don't work on that I tend to come back under plane.  Any keys or recs on how to both keep that wrist flexion through P2 to come back on plane and get to a flat wrist with the club pointing down the target line at P4?

Thanks!

You have me confused!  Hopefully I can help quick.  Notice the difference between the static grips in both videos.  Mario's wrist will come in flatter because he has a weaker grip.  Basically, I put that first video in there to show that wrist relationship to clubface position.

The best way I can put it is that your hands work as they would hammering a nail.

[angel]

Hi, Liam.

First of all, that´s a great swing, no doubt about this.

Just wanted to ask a couple of questions.

Have you noticed a loss of height or distance switching to a more "inline" or even "cp" release protocol?

Is it purposely that you set up with your right knee more extended that left? I really need to do the same to feel comfortable in my set up, don´t know why.

Thanks.

[MonarchGolf2010]

Originally Posted by angel

Hi, Liam.

First of all, that´s a great swing, no doubt about this.

Just wanted to ask a couple of questions.

Have you noticed a loss of height or distance switching to a more "inline" or even "cp" release protocol?

Is it purposely that you set up with your right knee more extended that left? I really need to do the same to feel comfortable in my set up, don´t know why.

Thanks.

Thanks for the post Angel.

First, I have no idea what "inline" or "cp" release means.  I can talk the ins and outs of golf swings, but I am unfamiliar with some TGM or 5SK or w/e terminoligies.

In regards to my right knee, I was exaggerating the feel in 2011 to get my hips to turn more on axis (they were too flat).  But, I still do have some preset with my right knee straighter, it's just not as noticeable.  I think its a great idea to preset this condition to lead to the correct motions in the swing.  There is actually no way to set your weight left and maintain proper spine angle and alignments, without allowing your right leg to straighten some at address.

[angel]

Thanks for the reply.

And talking about cp vs cf, it´s Moradish stuff, just a description based on centripetal or centrifugal forces.

You could check a great descrition by Iacas here (among other great information), http://thesandtrap.com/t/44307/hitting-up-or-down-with-the-driver-in-an-inline-pattern .

But, basically, and by now, you could think on your movement in the release, that has really gone from "out and to the target" to "around your body". Theoretically, this tipe of motion should leave a lower ball flight, and there came my question.

Thanks again.

[MonarchGolf2010]

Originally Posted by angel

Thanks for the reply.

And talking about cp vs cf, it´s Moradish stuff, just a description based on centripetal or centrifugal forces.

You could check a great descrition by Iacas here (among other great information),  http://thesandtrap.com/t/44307/hitting-up-or-down-with-the-driver-in-an-inline-pattern.

But, basically, and by now, you could think on your movement in the release, that has really gone from "out and to the target" to "around your body". Theoretically, this tipe of motion should leave a lower ball flight, and there came my question.

Thanks again.

Oh, right, I forgot to answer that question.  My natural ball flight has come down considerably, no questions asked.  But, I hit the ball farther as well.  It gets me into trouble occasionally because I sometimes feel uncomfortable hitting 7 iron from say, 190, which is maybe 5 yards longer than stock.  I am still not used to, nor am I certain, of the exact distances my clubs fly.  I haven't had the time, or resource to test this.

The thread is very in depth.  Wow! Lots to read.  Mario and I talk golf swing frequently, and with his Morad/TGM/5sk background, I understand the patterns.  He has taught me to elevate it, when I need to, by rehinging my wrists faster through the stroke.  I will most likely be switching my equipment around at my upcoming fitting to get my normal ballflgith back up a bit.

[nevets88]

Originally Posted by JetFan1983

PS- I live near Colts Neck, so I need to meet up with Mario one of these days.... I keep saying that, so this will be the last time I do until I actually do see him for a lesson.

Mario is excellent instructor. You're so close, I'd get thee to Trump National ASAP. Takes me 1.5 hours to get to him.

[MarioBevilacqua]

Hey guys,

Thank you all for the kind words. For those of you that are close, I will see you soon.

Just wanted to add to the topic of wrist conditions. Some of you are getting to caught up in the club face's reaction to bowing(arching) vs. cupping(bending) both wrists. The clubface will be affected by these conditions, yes, and grip type. The two biggest things that wrist conditions control are the SWEETSPOT PATH and the loading/release of the golf club.

Generally speaking, more bow, more hook and vice versa. Liam struggled with this, but the start line wasn't the biggest issue. It was the fact the ball was curving behind him (sweetspot path, NOT face).

[walk18]

Thanks. This is interesting stuff.