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Posted
Originally Posted by cipher

In trying to get my right hand stronger I am considering switching to the Vardon grip from interlocking.  I think I have smaller hands...tip of middle finger to base of palm is 7".  For some reason I find it easier for me to have a stronger right hand and more unified hands overall in pressure point #1.  The problem is that I really don't like how the Vardon grip feels with a glove.  I am not sure I want to go down that road of no glove blisters yet our not.   Does anyone who uses the Vardon grip find no glove to feel better than with one?  If I were to switch to no glove would I be better to put a softer mid size grip on my club?

I don't use a glove and use a Vardon grip.  Good pic of pp#3, and the left thumb, not my hands.

Mike McLoughlin

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Posted
Originally Posted by mvmac

I don't use a glove and use a Vardon grip.  Good pic of pp#3, and the left thumb, not my hands.

Cool, thanks for sharing.  I put and order in for the Pure P2 wraps with Erik.  I think I will like those with trying to go glove-less.  It is often wet, and humid here in sconieville.  With my smaller hands I feel the Vardon grip helps keeps me from letting my right hand too weak.   I tried it at the range yesterday after filming and noticing my right hand weakening again, and my swing and was much more consistent with my grip and ball striking.

Nate

:tmade:(10.5) :pxg:(4W & 7W) MIURA(3-PW) :mizuno:(50/54/60) 

 

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Posted

Got my first evolvr video back from James, after signing back up again.  I am pumped to start working on things.  It was a great lesson.  The hardest thing for me is going to be my right elbow in the downswing.  It is so hard for me to get it in a good position.  We will see how I can do though.

Nate

:tmade:(10.5) :pxg:(4W & 7W) MIURA(3-PW) :mizuno:(50/54/60) 

 

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Posted
Originally Posted by cipher

Got my first evolvr video back from James, after signing back up again.  I am pumped to start working on things.  It was a great lesson.  The hardest thing for me is going to be my right elbow in the downswing.  It is so hard for me to get it in a good position.  We will see how I can do though.

This would be a decent example of how to practice it.  Lots of reps.

Mike McLoughlin

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Posted
This would be a decent example of how to practice it.  Lots of reps.

So true, understanding something can be relatively easy. The hard part is having the dedication and determination to train your mind an body to do it. I know though that if I can get unstuck at the bottom, that this will be huge.

Nate

:tmade:(10.5) :pxg:(4W & 7W) MIURA(3-PW) :mizuno:(50/54/60) 

 

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Posted

A few stats just for fun at the end of each year.  FYI two years ago I set out with a lofty goal to become scratch in five years.  Here is my progress so far.  We are now starting year three.  Started at about a 15-16 in 2011.

YEARS FIR GIR PPR UD AVG INDEX
2011 46% 33% 32 N/A 82.8 6.2
2012 70% 44% 31.1 44% 79.4 4.5

UD = Greenside Up and Down only, within 20 yards of the green.

Nate

:tmade:(10.5) :pxg:(4W & 7W) MIURA(3-PW) :mizuno:(50/54/60) 

 

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Posted

Dumb question time.  Maybe someone could let me know what they think?  I feel that one of my swing flaws leading to the trailing elbow getting stuck behind in the down swing could be that the trailing arm is an overly active component in adding speed.  Would a felling more of pulling the club with the leading arm soften, and help get the trailing elbow into a more forward positing earlier in the downswing? I tried to find references to pulling vs pushing the club through the downswing but had no luck.

Nate

:tmade:(10.5) :pxg:(4W & 7W) MIURA(3-PW) :mizuno:(50/54/60) 

 

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Posted
Originally Posted by cipher

Dumb question time.  Maybe someone could let me know what they think?  I feel that one of my swing flaws leading to the trailing elbow getting stuck behind in the down swing could be that the trailing arm is an overly active component in adding speed.  Would a felling more of pulling the club with the leading arm soften, and help get the trailing elbow into a more forward positing earlier in the downswing? I tried to find references to pulling vs pushing the club through the downswing but had no luck.

Did you just get an evolvr on this stuff? :)

You both push and pull in the downswing. Every two-armed golfer has. Feels may vary, but you don't have an arm just hanging out doing nothing.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
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Posted
Originally Posted by iacas

Did you just get an evolvr on this stuff? :)

You both push and pull in the downswing. Every two-armed golfer has. Feels may vary, but you don't have an arm just hanging out doing nothing.

Yeah I got one Wednesday on the trailing elbow position and my sky rocketing left hip. I think there might be a communication issue between James and I, he speaks some kind of Britanglish and I speak Merican.

Just frustrated mainly, with my inability to do this correctly so far.  As you say, feel ain't real, but I think I need slightly more of a pull feeling, because it feels more like my left arm is a passive guide right now.

Nate

:tmade:(10.5) :pxg:(4W & 7W) MIURA(3-PW) :mizuno:(50/54/60) 

 

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Posted
Originally Posted by cipher

Just frustrated mainly, with my inability to do this correctly so far.  As you say, feel ain't real, but I think I need slightly more of a pull feeling, because it feels more like my left arm is a passive guide right now.

You got it on Wednesday. It's Friday.

I've been working on a similar piece in my swing (it gets better all the time) since 2011. :)

Practice properly. And don't expect it to suddenly be different. Do it at 25% speed until you can do it every time, then do it at 30% speed...

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

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Posted
Originally Posted by iacas

You got it on Wednesday. It's Friday.

Yeah ... patience is all that's required.  I am probably on a pace of a lesson every 2 1/2 to 3 weeks or so, but by no means does that mean that I've figured out everything from the previous lesson.  Not even close.  I get a lesson from James, work on it for awhile, and will send him my next video when

a) I think I've figured it out and am "ready" for something more.

b) I am thoroughly confused and am looking for a different feel or different explanation on how to accomplish it.

c) Its been several weeks since my last submission. :)

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Posted
Originally Posted by iacas

You got it on Wednesday. It's Friday.

I've been working on a similar piece in my swing (it gets better all the time) since 2011. :)

Practice properly. And don't expect it to suddenly be different. Do it at 25% speed until you can do it every time, then do it at 30% speed...

I know but I am a bit hard on myself.  He did talk to me about it last fall as well, but I ran out of weather to work on it, and did not want to ask any questions when I was not enrolled.  When I play in the qualifier in July I know that James will have me in a pretty good spot, but the biggest battle with be believing I belong there.  I think slowly practicing the move and then increasing the speed is a great thought.  I will try that.  I promise to try to be patient.

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Yeah ... patience is all that's required.  I am probably on a pace of a lesson every 2 1/2 to 3 weeks or so, but by no means does that mean that I've figured out everything from the previous lesson.  Not even close.  I get a lesson from James, work on it for awhile, and will send him my next video when

a) I think I've figured it out and am "ready" for something more.

b) I am thoroughly confused and am looking for a different feel or different explanation on how to accomplish it.

c) Its been several weeks since my last submission. :)

I think I am to this stage as well were it takes a lot of time and effort to train yourself these subtle little nuances.   I know I can never put down the clubs again for a couple months like I did this winter.  I need to constantly be thinking a working on all these things even if I cannot get to a facility much in the winter.  Cool to see that you take that much time though in working on it and getting a video back to James.  I think that in the long run this sort of patience is really going to pay off for you.

Nate

:tmade:(10.5) :pxg:(4W & 7W) MIURA(3-PW) :mizuno:(50/54/60) 

 

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Posted
Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Yeah ... patience is all that's required.  I am probably on a pace of a lesson every 2 1/2 to 3 weeks or so, but by no means does that mean that I've figured out everything from the previous lesson.  Not even close.  I get a lesson from James, work on it for awhile, and will send him my next video when

a) I think I've figured it out and am "ready" for something more.

b) I am thoroughly confused and am looking for a different feel or different explanation on how to accomplish it.

c) Its been several weeks since my last submission. :)

That's perfect Drew, that's exactly how Evolvr is meant to be used and why there is the flexibility to upload 4 times a month.  Not necessary or even encouraged to use it that frequently but it's kind there in case of emergency ;-)

Mike McLoughlin

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Posted

Epic fail on keeping the elbows together.  Right elbow still is stuck.  See the photo below at "P6" I think?  So frustrating, but I will get there.  I need a lot more practice.  Doing better though loading into the left hip and leg.  Had about five shanks throughout the bucket doing this though.  Kept with it and the shanks stopped.  With moving my centers forward in the downswing I realized I had to get the arms going down faster and also took them down a bit closer on my body line.  That seemed to help and really, hit some nice shots doing that.  I was at carrying it right to the 150 pin in 25 degree weather, so I am happy with that.  That is as far as I was hitting it in 80 degree weather last year.   Still very frustrated with the elbow.  Tried the 3W off the deck for a few swings as well and hit some nasty slam hooks until I got the arms moving faster as well.

The video kind of shows how I am trying to work on these felling.  Still just really struggling with keeping the elbows together.  It is just hard to feel that in a swing for me.  Trying to feel the right elbow tucking in and PP#5 through the swing.  Anyway we will see what Sir James has to say.

Nate

:tmade:(10.5) :pxg:(4W & 7W) MIURA(3-PW) :mizuno:(50/54/60) 

 

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Posted
Originally Posted by cipher

Anyway we will see what Sir James has to say.

Should we start a thread on how obnoxious he is ... insisting that we refer to him as 'Sir' all the time?

Originally Posted by cipher

Epic fail on keeping the elbows together.  Right elbow still is stuck.  See the photo below at "P6" I think?  So frustrating, but I will get there.

I'm gonna be the annoying guy who just keeps preaching patience. :)  I also have had a lot of trouble with the elbows, to the point where James and I have actually moved on to other things.  I still work on it in conjunction with everything else, but its not currently the priority.  (Well, it wasn't the last couple of time, but I'm putting in another video today ... who knows?)

You'll get there!

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Posted
Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Should we start a thread on how obnoxious he is ... insisting that we refer to him as 'Sir' all the time?

I'm gonna be the annoying guy who just keeps preaching patience. :)  I also have had a lot of trouble with the elbows, to the point where James and I have actually moved on to other things.  I still work on it in conjunction with everything else, but its not currently the priority.  (Well, it wasn't the last couple of time, but I'm putting in another video today ... who knows?)

You'll get there!

Yeah we should start a thread on that, the guy is just...brutal!

Trying to be patient. I was actually more encouraged by what I saw and felt in my swing today than the discouraging things I know like my right elbow, so that is good.  Like you say, we will get there.  Good luck on your uploads as well.

Nate

:tmade:(10.5) :pxg:(4W & 7W) MIURA(3-PW) :mizuno:(50/54/60) 

 

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Posted

Practice swings just have to be done much slower, like 5x slower

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

I'm gonna be the annoying guy who just keeps preaching patience. :)  I also have had a lot of trouble with the elbows, to the point where James and I have actually moved on to other things.  I still work on it in conjunction with everything else, but its not currently the priority.  (Well, it wasn't the last couple of time, but I'm putting in another video today ... who knows?)

Even if James doesn't mention the elbows, what he's recommending is probably tied to getting them better

Mike McLoughlin

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Posted
Originally Posted by mvmac

Practice swings just have to be done much slower, like 5x slower

Thanks Mike, I will work on that.

Nate

:tmade:(10.5) :pxg:(4W & 7W) MIURA(3-PW) :mizuno:(50/54/60) 

 

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    • Day 1: 2025.12.26 Worked on LH position on grip, trying to keep fingers closer to perpendicular to the club. Feels awkward but change is meant to.
    • Please see this topic for updated information:
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    • When you've been teaching golf as long as I have, you're going to find that you can teach some things better than you previously had, and you're probably going to find some things that you taught incorrectly. I don't see that as a bad thing — what would be worse is refusing to adapt and grow given new information. I've always said that my goal with my instruction isn't to be right, but it's to get things right. To that end, I'm about five years late in issuing a public proclamation on something… When I first got my GEARS system, I immediately looked at the golf swings of the dozens and dozens of Tour players for which I suddenly had full 3D data. I created a huge spreadsheet showing how their bodies moved, how the club moved, at various points in the swing. I mapped knee and elbow angles, hand speeds, shoulder turns and pelvis turns… etc. I re-considered what I thought I knew about the golf swing as performed by the best players. One of those things dated back to the earliest days: that you extend (I never taught "straighten" and would avoid using that word unless in the context of saying "don't fully straighten") the trail knee/leg in the backswing. I was mislead by 2D photos from less-than-ideal camera angles — the trail leg rotates a bit during the backswing, and so when observing trail knee flex should also use a camera that moves to stay perpendicular to the plane of the ankle/knee/hip joint. We have at least two topics here on this (here and here; both of which I'll be updating after publishing this) where @mvmac and I advise golfers to extend the trail knee. Learning that this was not right is one of the reasons I'm glad to have a 3D system, as most golfers generally preserve the trail knee flex throughout the backswing. Data Here's a video showing an iron and a driver of someone who has won the career slam: Here's what the graph of his right knee flex looks like. The solid lines I've positioned at the top of the backswing (GEARS aligns both swings at impact, the dashed line). Address is to the right, of course, and the graph shows knee flex from the two swings above. The data (17.56° and 23.20°) shows where this player is in both swings (orange being the yellow iron swing, pink the blue driver swing). You can see that this golfer extends his trail knee 2-3°… before bending it even more than that through the late backswing and early downswing. Months ago I created a quick Instagram video showing the trail knee flex in the backswing of several players (see the top for the larger number): Erik J. Barzeski (@iacas) • Instagram reel GEARS shares expert advice on golf swing technique, focusing on the critical backswing phase. Tour winners and major champions reveal the key to a precise and powerful swing, highlighting the importance of... Here are a few more graphs. Two LIV players and major champions: Two PGA Tour winners: Two women's #1 ranked players: Two more PGA Tour winners (one a major champ): Two former #1s, the left one being a woman, the right a man, with a driver: Two more PGA Tour players: You'll notice a trend: they almost all maintain roughly the same flex throughout their backswing and downswing. The Issues with Extending the Trail Knee You can play good golf extending (again, not "straightening") the trail knee. Some Tour players do. But, as with many things, if 95 out of 100 Tour players do it, you're most likely better off doing similarly to what they do. So, what are the issues with extending the trail knee in the backswing? To list a few: Pelvic Depth and Rotation Quality Suffers When the trail knee extends, the trail leg often acts like an axle on the backswing, with the pelvis rotating around the leg and the trail hip joint. This prevents the trail side from gaining depth, as is needed to keep the pelvis center from thrusting toward the ball. Most of the "early extension" (thrust) that I see occurs during the backswing. Encourages Early Extension (Thrust) Patterns When you've thrust and turned around the trail hip joint in the backswing, you often thrust a bit more in the downswing as the direction your pelvis is oriented is forward and "out" (to the right for a righty). Your trail leg can abduct to push you forward, but "forward" when your pelvis is turned like that is in the "thrust" direction. Additionally, the trail knee "breaking" again at the start of the downswing often jumps the trail hip out toward the ball a bit too much or too quickly. While the trail hip does move in that direction, if it's too fast or too much, it can prevent the lead side hip from getting "back" at the right rate, or at a rate commensurate with the trail hip to keep the pelvis center from thrusting. Disrupts the Pressure Shift/Transition When the trail leg extends too much, it often can't "push" forward normally. The forward push begins much earlier than forward motion begins — pushing forward begins as early as about P1.5 to P2 in the swings of most good golfers. It can push forward by abducting, again, but that's a weaker movement that shoves the pelvis forward (toward the target) and turns it more than it generally should (see the next point). Limits Internal Rotation of the Trail Hip Internal rotation of the trail hip is a sort of "limiter" on the backswing. I have seen many golfers on GEARS whose trail knee extends, whose pelvis shifts forward (toward the target), and who turn over 50°, 60°, and rarely but not never, over 70° in the backswing. If you turn 60° in the backswing, it's going to be almost impossible to get "open enough" in the downswing to arrive at a good impact position. Swaying/Lateral Motion Occasionally a golfer who extends the trail knee too much will shift back too far, but more often the issue is that the golfer will shift forward too early in the backswing (sometimes even immediately to begin the backswing), leaving them "stuck forward" to begin the downswing. They'll push forward, stop, and have to restart around P4, disrupting the smooth sequence often seen in the game's best players. Other Bits… Reduces ground reaction force potential, compromises spine inclination and posture, makes transition sequencing harder, increases stress on the trail knee and lower back… In short… It's not athletic. We don't do many athletic things with "straight" or very extended legs (unless it's the end of the action, like a jump or a big push off like a step in a running motion).
    • Day 135 12-25 Wide backswing to wide downswing drill. Recorder and used mirror. 
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