Divot ahead!

[logman]

So it occurred to me reading another thread about amateurs divots being  2 inches ahead of the ball and some pros making divots 4 inches ahead of the ball. How do they do that?

given that most good players have a lot of lag in their swings, then as the front arm is horizontal on the downswing the club is pointing to the sky....I'm not explaining this very well. but anyway. so as the front arm is pulled down the clubhead is moving very vertically.

OK, so given that the pro golfer takes a divot 3 or 4 inches after the ball, then that means the AoA has become very flat. Yeah? I mean if the golfer hits the ball first then makes a divot 1 inch in front of the ball then thats gotta be a steeper AoA that the guy who makes a divot 4 inches after.

So ......I guess as the Lag in the swing is starting to release, I don't know, say about 18 inches before contact then the AoA is shallowing.

So...given that there is a low point in all swings and some players have very "short" low point......I mean they come down steep then they go up steep. Then how are the guys that take the 4 inch divot after the ball doing it.? How are they flattening out their low point so that they "middle" the ball then make a divot 4 inches later. The videos I've seen of guys demonstrating the 4 inch after divot seem to have a very big forward drive. Is that how they do it?

[14ledo81]

I don't believe the divot starts 4'' after the ball.  Low point would be 4'' after the ball.  Divot would still start right after.

[Harmonious]

The divot doesn't START 4" on the target side of the ball.  The LOW POINT of their swing is 4-5" on the target side of the ball.  This from Clampett's "The Impact Zone", based on testing of many golfers of all handicaps. As the low point of the swing moves further away from the target (the swing bottoms out earlier) the player's handicap goes up.  Clampett states approximately 4 handicap points per inch.

[iacas]

Seriously, Rupert?

This demonstrates quite nicely your knowledge and lack of understanding of what people are saying when they talk about the golf swing.

Also, look here and you can get some AoA numbers for the two tours: http://thesandtrap.com/t/32498/trackman-data-pga-tour-vs-lpga/ .

[logman]

Sorry, isn't that what people are saying....that is, you hit the ball first then make a divot, Yeah? and the distance from where the ball was to the divot is more(4 inches) when the pros hit the ball. Thats right isn't it?

[Mordan]

  logman said:

Originally Posted by logman

Sorry, isn't that what people are saying....that is, you hit the ball first then make a divot, Yeah? and the distance from where the ball was to the divot is more(4 inches) when the pros hit the ball. Thats right isn't it?

No.

Seriously, how would you hit the ball and start your divot 3 or 4 inches further forward? That makes no sense at all.

[Golfingdad]

  logman said:

Originally Posted by logman

Sorry, isn't that what people are saying....that is, you hit the ball first then make a divot, Yeah? and the distance from where the ball was to the divot is more(4 inches) when the pros hit the ball. Thats right isn't it?

This is the kind of stuff that irritates people.  You aren't even reading the responses to your own thread.  The first two people to respond to you corrected this and you still don't understand?  No way.  You are not that dumb.  You're just being "willfully ignorant."

The divot starts immediately after the ball, and the low point of said divot is 4" in front of that ... with an idea iron swing.

[Harmonious]

  logman said:

Originally Posted by logman

Sorry, isn't that what people are saying....that is, you hit the ball first then make a divot, Yeah? and the distance from where the ball was to the divot is more(4 inches) when the pros hit the ball. Thats right isn't it?

Once again (from my earlier post):

The divot doesn't START 4" on the target side of the ball.  The LOW POINT of their swing is 4-5" on the target side of the ball.  This from Clampett's "The Impact Zone", based on testing of many golfers of all handicaps. As the low point of the swing moves further away from the target (the swing bottoms out earlier) the player's handicap goes up.  Clampett states approximately 4 handicap points per inch.

So, to be very, very clear.... The divot starts at some point after you hit the ball.  Then your club continues DOWN to the low point of the swing, then goes back up to complete the swing.  The LOW POINT (not the beginning of their DIVOT!) of a professional tour golfer is around 4-5" to the target side of the ball. The DIVOT begins a some point prior to that, but after contact with the ball.

And that will be my last post on this thread.

[jclark]

The divot bottoms out 4 inches in front of the ball...

[logman]

OOPPS, I thought there was some magic in the divot. So If I "nip" the ball and my divot goes for 3 or 4 inches after the ball thats ok?

Apologies folks didn't mean to irritate. Hey Erik, maybe you should change my description from "willfully ignorant" to plain "ignorant"

[Golfingdad]

  logman said:

Originally Posted by logman

OOPPS, I thought there was some magic in the divot. So If I "nip" the ball and my divot goes for 3 or 4 inches after the ball thats ok?

I think ... but to be sure, you should post some videos.  (Say, of a handful of 5 or 6 irons off of grass?? ;))

[jamo]

  logman said:

OOPPS, I thought there was some magic in the divot. So If I "nip" the ball and my divot goes for 3 or 4 inches after the ball thats ok? Apologies folks didn't mean to irritate. Hey Erik, maybe you should change my description from "willfully ignorant" to plain "ignorant"

For the record, if you think any of us are ever giving "magic" as a reason for something geometric, re-read.

[Golfingdad]

  jamo said:

Originally Posted by jamo

For the record, if you think any of us are ever giving "magic" as a reason for something geometric, re-read.

That's not totally true.  In my last lesson with James, he gave my 3 things to work on; get the left thumb a little more straight down the shaft, stretch the hands away from the body at the top of the backswing, and yell "Expecto Patronum!" during the downswing.  At contact, supposedly a blue flash of light occurs and magical things happen.  I haven't been able to time it right yet, but I'm still working on it.

[Mordan]

  logman said:

Originally Posted by logman

OOPPS, I thought there was some magic in the divot. So If I "nip" the ball and my divot goes for 3 or 4 inches after the ball thats ok?

Apologies folks didn't mean to irritate. Hey Erik, maybe you should change my description from "willfully ignorant" to plain "ignorant"

You're not "nipping" the ball if you're taking a 3 or 4 inch long divot. And that suggests a low point 1.5 - 2 inches ahead of the ball, and given your handicap that means you're pretty much in line with Clampett's data.

[bplewis24]

  logman said:

Originally Posted by logman

OOPPS, I thought there was some magic in the divot. So If I "nip" the ball and my divot goes for 3 or 4 inches after the ball thats ok?

I occasionally get lost in golf terminology as some terms are a universal standard and others aren't.  So, when you say "nip", what are you referring to?  If your divot "goes for 3 or 4 inches after the ball," are you saying it bottoms out 3-4 inches after the ball or not?

The critical point is where the swing bottoms out as far as I understand it.  How long or short your divot is after the ball may not be as telling.

[Fyearoldgolfer]

Length of divot varies with angle of attack, and turf resistance. In winter and spring, my divot can be 18 inches long with my short irons. Summer the turf is much more resistant, and short iron divot is 6 inches. If you watch the PGA pros, they can take huge divots too when the turf is soft.

[logman]

  bplewis24 said:

Originally Posted by bplewis24

I occasionally get lost in golf terminology as some terms are a universal standard and others aren't.  So, when you say "nip", what are you referring to?  If your divot "goes for 3 or 4 inches after the ball," are you saying it bottoms out 3-4 inches after the ball or not?

The critical point is where the swing bottoms out as far as I understand it.  How long or short your divot is after the ball may not be as telling.

Yes, I constantly get pulled up for making making flippant or coloquial comments. or hairsplitting. But anyway back to the topic. I was interested in the shape of the golf swing. So what I observe in good golfers useing lots of lag in their swings is the clubhead coming down very vertically then flattening out to -4 degrees or similar into the ball and then into a divot. What I want to know is, is the relatively flat path of the clubhead at the bottom of the swing  the result of the big forward weight shift that's currently taught. In other words if you swing the club without any forward movement, would the lowpoint area be shorter and more "pointed"( I can't think of another way to describe it)

[Mr. Desmond]

"What we have here is a failya to communicate." --- Cool Hand Luke