Frank Deford - Scorekeepers for golf

[David in FL]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Yes they do need to add, and if their math is wrong, they get DQ'd. There's 18 numbers on that card that need tallied, which doesn't sound like a big deal, and 99 percent of the time will be tallied correctly. But only in golf, if in that one percent where they are tallied incorrectly does the player get credited with the erroneous score (if it's higher) or DQ's (if it's lower).

Re comparing basketball to golf, don't miss my point. All I'm saying is, in other sports the players aren't obligated and required to keep the score, and further, if should the player come up with a different number than reality, that number doesn't become fact.

The 18 holes do NOT need to be tallied up for a correct total score for the round.  I think that's turtleback's point, and one which a lot of people are unaware.  The players ONLY responsibility is to mark the correct score for each individual hole , not for ensuring that the total score for the round is correct.

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by David in FL

The 18 holes do NOT need to be tallied up for a correct total score for the round.  I think that's turtleback's point, and one which a lot of people are unaware.  The players ONLY responsibility is to mark the correct score for each individual hole, not for ensuring that the total score for the round is correct.

You sure about that?

So let's just say I shot even par 72 - the 18 numbers on my card add up to 72 - but I write a 71 on my card.

I'm not going to get DQ'd? You're saying I'm not responsible for that 71 I wrote?

If turtleback et al are correct, and all the player is only responsible for marking individual hole scores correctly and not adding all 18 up correctly. then I will concede & accept that players should be responsible for that. But I also am pretty sure they have to be sure the final score for the round is reported correctly.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

It's the type of drivel I've come to expect from Frank Deford.  Frank should write for soap operas where drama and scandal are appreciated.

The guy is an idiot, plain and simple.

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Quote:

Originally Posted by turtleback

A pro who is "simply . . . careless" about his score deserves what he gets.

So disagree.

So with this logic, if say, Carmelo Anthony thinks he scored 32 points but he really scored 34, he should get credit for 32?

They're there to play golf to its highest level, not add. Let someone else do that.

Silly attempt at an irrelevant comparison.

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Quote:

Originally Posted by turtleback

YET AGAIN, they do not need to add, all they need to do is get the hole scores correct.  And comparing golf to basketball is simply ludicrous.

Yes they do need to add, and if their math is wrong, they get DQ'd. There's 18 numbers on that card that need tallied, which doesn't sound like a big deal, and 99 percent of the time will be tallied correctly. But only in golf, if in that one percent where they are tallied incorrectly does the player get credited with the erroneous score (if it's higher) or DQ's (if it's lower).

Re comparing basketball to golf, don't miss my point. All I'm saying is, in other sports the players aren't obligated and required to keep the score, and further, if should the player come up with a different number than reality, that number doesn't become fact.

No they don't have to add anything.  All the player has to do is be able to count:  1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 etc., then write it down.  Addition is the responsibility of the committee.  Rule 6-6d (Note 1):

d. Wrong Score for Hole

The competitor is responsible for the correctness of the score recorded for each hole on his score card. If he returns a score for any hole lower than actually taken, he is disqualified. If he returns a score for any hole higher than actually taken, the score as returned stands.

Note 1: The Committee is responsible for the addition of scores and application of the handicap recorded on the score card – see Rule 33-5.

[David in FL]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

You sure about that?

So let's just say I shot even par 72 - the 18 numbers on my card add up to 72 - but I write a 71 on my card.

I'm not going to get DQ'd? You're saying I'm not responsible for that 71 I wrote?

If turtleback et al are correct, and all the player is only responsible for marking individual hole scores correctly and not adding all 18 up correctly. then I will concede & accept that players should be responsible for that. But I also am pretty sure they have to be sure the final score for the round is reported correctly.

Yep, that's all the player is responsible for.  As Fourputt, notes, rule 6-6d (note 1) applies.

Rule 33-5 also confirms it as it specifically discusses the Commitee's responsibility:

33-5 . Score Card

In stroke play, the Committee must provide each competitor with a score card containing the date and the competitor’s name or, in foursome or four-ball stroke play, the competitors’ names.

In stroke play, the Committee is responsible for the addition of scores and application of the handicap recorded on the score card.

[zipazoid]

Ok thanks Fourputt.

So I just want to be clear then. When pros go into the scoring trailer after their round, they are not adding up & posting a total score, just making sure each hole was reported correctly, and then sign the card & let someone else add it up? In other words, the player is saying 'Yes I made a 4 on the first, a 3 on the second...' and so on?

If so, I am certainly okay with that. And further, if that's how the rule is, that the player is only responsible for the individual holes being correct & not the overall total, I wouldn't put down a total score for fear of, in my moment of fatigue & my mind possibly being elsewhere ("Dammit I missed that putt on 16" or whatever), that my math was off.

[David in FL]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Ok thanks Fourputt.

So I just want to be clear then. When pros go into the scoring trailer after their round, they are not adding up & posting a total score, just making sure each hole was reported correctly, and then sign the card & let someone else add it up? In other words, the player is saying 'Yes I made a 4 on the first, a 3 on the second...' and so on?

If so, I am certainly okay with that. And further, if that's how the rule is, that the player is only responsible for the individual holes being correct & not the overall total, I wouldn't put down a total score for fear of, in my moment of fatigue & my mind possibly being elsewhere ("Dammit I missed that putt on 16" or whatever), that my math was off.

No need to fear putting down the wrong total score.  Since it's not the player's responsibility, there's no penalty for writing it down incorrectly......

I know, a little weird....

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Ok thanks Fourputt.

So I just want to be clear then. When pros go into the scoring trailer after their round, they are not adding up & posting a total score, just making sure each hole was reported correctly, and then sign the card & let someone else add it up? In other words, the player is saying 'Yes I made a 4 on the first, a 3 on the second...' and so on?

If so, I am certainly okay with that. And further, if that's how the rule is, that the player is only responsible for the individual holes being correct & not the overall total, I wouldn't put down a total score for fear of, in my moment of fatigue & my mind possibly being elsewhere ("Dammit I missed that putt on 16" or whatever), that my math was off.

Don't feel too bad about not knowing this rule.  There is a mystery series where the hero is a PGA tour player and one of the running issues he has is that he is dyslexic, and in almost every book there is a point where it is mentioned that he uses a calculator to tally his score so he doesn't get disqualified.  An instance where the author didn't do his homework.

And it doesn't matter if you put a total down or not.  It cannot get you DQd nor can it get you stuck with a higher score than you actually made.  So if, in that moment of fatigue or distraction, you add wrong then it is of no import.  The committee still has to add your hole score and count the actual total regardless of what total you wrote down.  However, you ARE responsible for insuring that your handicap is correct.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Yes, I get the nobility & accountability of signing a card - it's like a contract. But...have you ever read every word of a contract before you signed it?

I have yes. And if I'm ever presented with a contract that's only 18 words long, I definitely will.

Originally Posted by zipazoid

I'm not going to get DQ'd? You're saying I'm not responsible for that 71 I wrote?

I've written down scores like "59" and "42" (the universal answer to everything) in the totals box. It's irrelevant. It doesn't count.

[jetsknicks1]

Wow, DeFord really has a hard on for golf doesn't he? His comment about golf and gambling and how it leads to cheating is just ridiculous. No sport's more intertwined with gambling than golf? Really?. Hey Frank, ever heard of the NFL? Super Bowl? March Madness? Horse Racing? Boxing? You hate golf, we get it. Now go away.

[WACzpm89]

Frank was my commencement speaker at my college graduation. I like him a lot but I do not agree with him here.