Lipping out Putts

[saturday]

I would like to nominate this post as "Post of the Year". You basically said everything I wanted to say, and more. I am high fiving you and imagine punching the other guy. Bravo!

[iHack]

And your playing partners who see your freakish putts and agree that they don't believe it, just say it to keep it moving. What other choice do they have, what are they going to disagree with you on every hole, every putt, every round. Everyone has had those days where they "burn every edge". It's like me saying when I watch the nba I see shots hit the rim and go in but when I shoot I hit the rim and it bounces out. Lol. You even compared your putts to the pro's putts on TV in one of your posts. sorry to pile on and I'm sure your a nice intelligent person but your making yourself sound like a moron.

[pipergsm]

Originally Posted by Shorty

My "personal experience and knowledge" lead me to maintain the position that I believe that you think that things actually happen don't.

Everyone else's putts fall.

Yours don't.

Trees stop you from making birdies.

You mishit half your shots on the course but raeely on the practice range.

You admit to cheating.

You think you can coach people but have little knowledge of the game.

I think I'll maintain my position when it comes to you. I'm pretty comfortable with it, actually.

Thank you for your understanding Shorty. This is the kind of constructional reaction I expect from more experienced golfers.

1    everyone else's put doesn't hit the back of the cup, that's why they fall!  Please check out the video I'll soon post and let me know what you think after watching the images!

2    trees don't stop me from making birdies off course, but maybe you're right on this point. Maybe I think too much in the sense of : it should have, it could have,...

it's just that, after the first bounce, the ball was still going straight for the green entrance (and the pin), after the second (or third) bounce, it suddenly jumped to the left and hit the tree.

that's why I call it a bad bounce.

Maybe I'm wrong, I don't have enough course experience to compare,  but I think if the quality of the course had been better, this probably wouldn't have happened.

3    the mishitting of half my shots on the course is getting much better, since I started forcing myself to think about anything else but golf (music) during my shots, so it seems the problem was

purely stress-related

4   As I mentioned before, I stopped cheating about 2 weeks ago and the reason I cheated was to not be completely demoralized by my bad results and I considered

my cheated results not as a real result, but as a goal to aim for.

5   I do not think I can "coach" people, I'm sorry if I created that impression, I just expressed my opinion about something I believe to be an essential flaw in the way many recreational golfers

practice and try to improve. I'm not saying my vision is the best one, but I believe that if struggling golfers would use this vision as a guideline in their practice, their results would

probably be much better.

As for my own results, I'm still working on that, I'm not there yet (after only 150 hours of practice that would be ridiculous), but I truly believe I will soon be able

to play "my local course" in a single digit handicap.

That doesn't mean I will be a real 1-digit hcp off course, since my local course is too short for that (I wouldn't say too easy though), but I have to start somewhere, and once I have

established this goal, I'll move one to other, higher level courses to try and get the same results there.

So please, wait for the video I'll post and than comment on what you see.

I'll also post a video of my swing (irons) and will be happy to hear your comments on it, even if they're rather negative (though my pro says it's ok).

[pipergsm]

Originally Posted by iHack

And your playing partners who see your freakish putts and agree that they don't believe it, just say it to keep it moving. What other choice do they have, what are they going to disagree with you on every hole, every putt, every round.

Everyone has had those days where they "burn every edge".

It's like me saying when I watch the nba I see shots hit the rim and go in but when I shoot I hit the rim and it bounces out. Lol. You even compared your putts to the pro's putts on TV in one of your posts.

sorry to pile on and I'm sure your a nice intelligent person but your making yourself sound like a moron.

iHack, you misunderstood what I wrote.

I'm definitely not comparing my shots with the pros!

I just said that, When I watch other players, both in real life and on tv (PGA tournaments), putt the ball in the center of the hole (like I did, unless my sight is much worse than I think it is), at the same speed or even faster than I do, I don't see these balls bounce back out.

I also said, it doesn't happen at every hole, but at certain holes at my local course (numbers 5 and 6).

[Shorty]

Originally Posted by pipergsm

iHack, you misunderstood what I wrote.

I'm definitely not comparing my shots with the pros!

I just said that, When I watch other players, both in real life and on tv (PGA tournaments), putt the ball in the center of the hole (like I did, unless my sight is much worse than I think it is), at the same speed or even faster than I do, I don't see these balls bounce back out.

I also said, it doesn't happen at every hole, but at certain holes at my local course (numbers 5 and 6).

You are getting more and more difficult to take seriously.

Your putts are too fast and not in the middle of the hole.

Die them in and they'll stay in, I promise.

[Shorty]

Originally Posted by pipergsm

So please, wait for the video I'll post and than comment on what you see.

I'll also post a video of my swing (irons) and will be happy to hear your comments on it, even if they're rather negative (though my pro says it's ok).

Look - - I am probably one of the ones who thinks you're doing OK for a beginner. I'd even say that it sounds like you're actually doing pretty well - and I love your enthusiasm. You're just overthinking certain aspects.

[Inebriated]

Originally Posted by pipergsm

iHack, you misunderstood what I wrote.

I'm definitely not comparing my shots with the pros!

I just said that, When I watch other players, both in real life and on tv (PGA tournaments), putt the ball in the center of the hole (like I did, unless my sight is much worse than I think it is), at the same speed or even faster than I do, I don't see these balls bounce back out.

I also said, it doesn't happen at every hole, but at certain holes at my local course (numbers 5 and 6).

I'm not the best putter out there, but I have played my fair share of poorly-maintained courses... A torn-up hole is a little less forgiving than a perfectly-maintained one. Not to give you an excuse, or anything. I would (and currently am) just stay the course, and focus on getting a better handle on speed and accuracy.

[pipergsm]

Originally Posted by Shorty

Look - - I am probably one of the ones who thinks you're doing OK for a beginner. I'd even say that it sounds like you're actually doing pretty well - and I love your enthusiasm. You're just overthinking certain aspects.

You could have a point there.

I do indeed have a tendency of over-thinking things.

However, I still believe I am not playing those bounce-outs too fast.

If you still think the same after watching the video, I'll believe you, but until that moment, excuse me for keeping on to my opinion!

[saevel25]

Answer me this, how far do you hit the ball past the hole if you miss the hole completely. Don't say you either make or lip out, not possible, i wont buy that, everyone misses the read or line. Be honest.

If the ball the ball travels more than 6" past the hole, your hitting it to hard. http://thesandtrap.com/t/46450/putting-capture-speed

Basically, due to physics, a ball traveling to fast doesn't have enough time to fall into the hole. Those putts that seem to hover over the whole and blow on past, that's why. That's why some putts look like they just fall in, while others bash the back of the hole with authority.

Since the cup is circular, and the ball is circular, this brings into the issue of lip outs.

Basically if you hit the ball that travels 6" past the hole, you have a small 10% reduction in circumference of the hole in which the ball can be captured. If you hit it 1 foot past, your looking at 39% reduction.

So you can see that a lot of speed is very detrimental to amount of error you get for making putts.

[TJBam]

OP can I please borrow some of that optimism that you are currently overflowing with

[Spyder]

Originally Posted by pipergsm

When putting, I usually try to calculate the speed of the ball such that, if I miss the hole, it will not pass it by more than 2 feet, often resulting in the fact that my ball comes up just a little short.

This is not my biggest problem however.

Quite often, I see my ball going in (half) and coming out again (lipping out?).

Is this caused by a specific flaw in the way I put, or is it rather bad luck and will it get better as I practice more?

Thanks for the answers.

Buy a new putter, that will fix everything. That's what I did!

[saevel25]

Originally Posted by pipergsm

When putting, I usually try to calculate the speed of the ball such that, if I miss the hole, it will not pass it by more than 2 feet,

Just found this

2' is way to much, your basically decreasing the diameter of the hole to 1.9". So basically you lost 1.2" from the edge of the cup. If you hit a  putt with that speed, from the lip inward 1.2", your looking at a lip out.

Also consider this, 2' even on a 5' putt, your basically saying, ok i am accepting anywhere from 5' to 7', or basically a 40% error in putting speed. To me that is just way to much to consider when putting. Maybe from 40' away 2' is a good pace past, that's only 5% speed error in the putt.

So, really your giving way to much error in your putting speed, if you try for 2' past at most. For putting, that's really limiting your capabilities. I'm not totally sure what a good error is for distance on putting. But i think for anything inside of 20' you should look at being with in 6" of the hole.

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by saevel25

But I think for anything inside of 20' you should look at being with in 6" of the hole.

That's always my goal. Even if I'm 2' away. That way I don't hit it short like an idiot. :D

[pipergsm]

Originally Posted by saevel25

Answer me this, how far do you hit the ball past the hole if you miss the hole completely. Don't say you either make or lip out, not possible, i wont buy that, everyone misses the read or line. Be honest.

If the ball the ball travels more than 6" past the hole, your hitting it to hard. http://thesandtrap.com/t/46450/putting-capture-speed

Basically, due to physics, a ball traveling to fast doesn't have enough time to fall into the hole. Those putts that seem to hover over the whole and blow on past, that's why. That's why some putts look like they just fall in, while others bash the back of the hole with authority.

Since the cup is circular, and the ball is circular, this brings into the issue of lip outs.

Basically if you hit the ball that travels 6" past the hole, you have a small 10% reduction in circumference of the hole in which the ball can be captured. If you hit it 1 foot past, your looking at 39% reduction.

So you can see that a lot of speed is very detrimental to amount of error you get for making putts.

This is very useful and comprehensive  information, thank you!

Off course I miss the read sometimes, but rarely from within 4 feet.

Most of the time, when I miss a 3 or 4-footer, the ball will stop less than 1 foot past the hole (I use my own shoes for measuring, and they are just under 1 foot, very small, I know)

I'm not very good with inches and stuff, but I think 6 inch is 1/2 foot, right?

That is the approximate distance most of my balls will stop whenever I miss the hole from 3-6 feet.

Off course, the farther I shoot from, the bigger the chance that the ball passes the hole a little farther.

My 2 latest experiences were from 3 and 4 feet.

I know I mentioned before that I aimed for a max. pass of 2 feet, but in reality I'd say that 75% or more of my misses clearly stops within 1 foot, when I putt from within 6 feet.

More than 6 feet and that percentage will drop off course, but in order for my misses to stop outside 2 feet over 50%, I'd be putting from around 20 feet or more.

It also depends whether I have a bad day or not, I admit, but I'm talking about averages here.

[iacas]

I just can't take this anymore.

There's no great mystery as to why a putt lips out. I should have just locked this thread after the second post:

Originally Posted by iacas

It's a combination of hitting the ball too firmly and too far off center (the hole's center).

Nor is there any great mystery as to the incredibly rare times a putt hits the cup itself and bounces out.

I'll consider re-opening this thread when the "video" is ready.

P.S. A PM will suffice. Don't post stupid threads alleging "BS" reasons.