Rule 4.2.b Clubs - Foreign substance

[iacas]

1 minute ago, Bonvivant said:

Almost like a rusty face

Rust doesn't increase spin.

[Bonvivant]

14 minutes ago, iacas said:

Rust doesn't increase spin.

There are still plenty of people that think it does, myself included until 5 minutes ago. I looked it up, and found this answer (no increase). I didn't see anything on chip shots though, only full swings. I don't know if the deformation of the ball on a full swing shot compared to less deformation on a chip shot is the same when it comes to the spin rates. Basic physics would say that more friction equals more spin, but that doesn't happen on the full swing with raw wedges, so I've got no clue.

What are your thoughts on a fine coat of sand? I think that the player was trying to gain spin in this person's scenario, mostly because it is a chip shot, and he added sand. If he went with just water, I would have agreed with the poster.

[ChetlovesMer]

7 hours ago, iacas said:

Rust doesn't increase spin.

7 hours ago, Bonvivant said:

There are still plenty of people that think it does, myself included until 5 minutes ago. I looked it up, and found this answer (no increase).

One of my best golfing pals, has a rusty wedge. He admits it doesn't do anything to increase it's performance. He just things it looks cool. To each his own I guess. 

On 6/19/2013 at 6:51 AM, geauxforbroke said:

Mineral oil (baby oil) is a by-product of crude refining, specifically in the process of making gasoline.

I would only use baby oil that's made from real babies. ... just saying that refined stuff is crude. 🤪

 

[ChetlovesMer]

On 6/20/2013 at 6:44 PM, TJBam said:

http://www.andrewricegolf.com/2013/02/wedges-and-water/ This guy suggests that a wet ball w a dry club loses a lot of spin with a wedge. His study looks legit. Think it applies to a driver?

I really don't think this applies to a driver. 

On 6/20/2013 at 4:31 PM, RayG said:

I alternated between the wet ones and the dry ones. 10 wet, 10 dry, 10 wet, 10 dry, etc...

I'm not doubting that you tried this. But that's a pretty unscientific test. 

[boogielicious]

8 hours ago, Bonvivant said:

Basic physics would say that more friction equals more spin

Physics doesn’t say anything without data. I’ve read properly designed studies in the past with robust data that shows there is no more spin from a rusty face than on a normal face. People make assumptions that rust equals more friction. That is their error.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, boogielicious said:

Physics doesn’t say anything without data. I’ve read properly designed studies in the past with robust data that shows there is no more spin from a rusty face than on a normal face. People make assumptions that rust equals more friction. That is their error.

Yep. Since when would you think that applying a flaky, dusty substance to the surface of a wedge, something that wears off significantly with each shot, leads to more "friction"?

But anyway…

[ChetlovesMer]

11 hours ago, Bonvivant said:

What are your thoughts on a fine coat of sand? I think that the player was trying to gain spin in this person's scenario, mostly because it is a chip shot, and he added sand. If he went with just water, I would have agreed with the poster.

Firstly, I don't think adding sand to the face of his/her club will actually help even the least bit on a chip shot. If anything, I think a clean club would be better for a chip shot. Having said that, if the player is intentionally adding sand because he/she "believes" it will increase the performance of his/her wedge, then it should be a penalty. 

In addition, the player loses my respect. He or she is a moron. 

[DaveP043]

I'll try to move back towards the original topic, which was Rule 4-2b (the OP was in 2013, so referred to the 2012 Rules, this is now covered by Rule 4.1a(3)).  This Rule prohibits the player from applying foreign material to the face of the club "for the purpose of influencing the movement of the ball."  The current language is very similar, two specific elements are required for a breach:  application of something to the face of the club, and intent to alter the performance.  Rust isn't "applied" to the club, to me its more part of normal wear, so rust does not make a club non-conforming.  As to the post that re-ignited this discussion, the player "applied" a bit of moisture and a bit of sand.  If his purpose was to get more spin (or less), AND he made a stroke with the club, I'd say he violated the rule, he applied something with intent to influence the shot.  But intent is tough, he may have dragged the club through wet grass to try to clean it, and the contact with sand was unintentional.  As I read the rule, without the intention to influence the performance of the club, there's no violation.