Wedge Suggestions Please

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by jrasch

So if I find some wedges that feel great and I like but the bounce is on the lower end what are your thoughts? Should I be ok or should I get the next best clubs that felt ok but have better bounce?

The clubs with more bounce are going to be more versatile.  Like we said, lower bounce makes shots around the greens harder to hit, have to be more precise.

Originally Posted by TJBam

(OP keep in mind however that of the two players that disagree with me, one is a pro instructor and one has a much lower handicap than myself.. )

Well that doesn't really matter, correct information is correct information no matter who it's coming from.  There have been major champions that have shared some pretty bad advice.  Not saying you can't hit good shots with lower bounce, it's just harder to do and no way I can hit that shot off a green with a low bounce wedge.

[geauxforbroke]

I understand the "theory" of high bounce. However, my current lob wedge has 5* of bounce. My father has the identical wedge with 8*. I much prefer the lower bounce. Much more versatile around the green for me.

I only say this to make this point: try several different wedges and go with what works for you, not what works for me or any other person on TST.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by geauxforbroke

I understand the "theory" of high bounce. However, my current lob wedge has 5* of bounce. My father has the identical wedge with 8*. I much prefer the lower bounce. Much more versatile around the green for me.

I mean this the right way, so please take it as such: you're doing it wrong.

What I mean more is this: the lower bounce wedge is not more versatile. You may be more comfortable with it, but you probably haven't developed the pitch shots that use the bounce, or the chip shots that use the bounce, so when you accidentally "engage" it more it "feels different" to you and you think "oops, too much bounce."

Let me put it another way…

Imagine a 60-yard shot you want to play with a lob wedge. It's one of those in-between yardages where it's kind of like a full swing, but kind of like a pitch or a chip too. What we'll see good players do with a low-bounce wedge is that they'll flip at the ball to try to ADD BOUNCE because they know that if they get their hands ahead they'll take a divot the size of a medium-sized cat.

My lob wedge has 22° of bounce. If I want to play a low 60-yard shot, I'll put the handle forward and punch a low one in there, and the club will take only a small divot because I still have 5-10° of bounce (if I lean the shaft forward 12-17°). If I want to play a super-high 60-yarder, I can put my hands back a bit, make a bigger swing, and let the bounce glide the clubhead along the ground.

People adapt to their wedges. But that doesn't mean they can't quickly adapt to BETTER wedges and have BETTER and MORE CONSISTENT technique in the end.

High bounce wedges with some heel and toe relief are the most versatile wedges by far. You can still play all the "handle forward, leading edge shots" that you want, without big divots, and you can play every other shot in the book as well. Low loft wedges don't provide the same number of options.

---

Again, a lot of the info I share here is not because I ever expect to make a dime selling you a set of wedges - you're not going to visit Erie to do that. It's just to get the best information out there and to help as many people enjoy their golf game and thus their lives a little bit more.

[geauxforbroke]

Originally Posted by iacas

I mean this the right way, so please take it as such: you're doing it wrong.

I'm doing it differently than you, but I'm sure my results are no worse. I'm not wrong; I've just found a different way of doing it.

My point was to try different wedges instead of blindly taking someone's input.

[TJBam]

Originally Posted by geauxforbroke

I'm doing it differently than you, but I'm sure my results are no worse. I'm not wrong; I've just found a different way of doing it.

My point was to try different wedges instead of blindly taking someone's input.

No geaux apparently we're both doing it wrong.

Maybe you can help me edit this letter I'm fixing to send off to the Vokey Mill:

June 20, 2013

To Whom It May Concern:

Good afternoon.  Upon further review of your 60* lob wedge selection, I'll have you know that you're doing it wrong.

Please remove from public sale all lob wedges with 4*, 7*,  10* bounce and please replace these options with a 22* bounce because all golfers have the exact same hand eye coordination and need the exact same bounce on their lob wedges.  Also, because I want to hit it off of a green without touching the ground.  I don't mean this in the wrong way, by the way.

Best regards,

Tyler Brown

Houston, TX

[geauxforbroke]

Originally Posted by TJBam

No geaux apparently we're both doing it wrong.

Maybe you can help me edit this letter I'm fixing to send off to the Vokey Mill:

June 20, 2013

To Whom It May Concern:

Good afternoon.  Upon further review of your 60* lob wedge selection, I'll have you know that you're doing it wrong.

Please remove from public sale all lob wedges with 4*, 7*,  10* bounce and please replace these options with a 22* bounce because all golfers have the exact same hand eye coordination and need the exact same bounce on their lob wedges.  Also, because I want to hit it off of a green without touching the ground.  I don't mean this in the wrong way, by the way.

Best regards,

Tyler Brown

Houston, TX

No I see the benefit of a high bounce wedge for some players. However, from experience, I've determined that a low bounce 60* wedge is best for me. I just don't appreciate being told that I'm wrong without someone seeing what I'm actually doing.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by geauxforbroke

I'm doing it differently than you, but I'm sure my results are no worse. I'm not wrong; I've just found a different way of doing it.

My point was to try different wedges instead of blindly taking someone's input.

Originally Posted by TJBam

No geaux apparently we're both doing it wrong.

Maybe you can help me edit this letter I'm fixing to send off to the Vokey Mill:

June 20, 2013

To Whom It May Concern:

Good afternoon.  Upon further review of your 60* lob wedge selection, I'll have you know that you're doing it wrong.

Please remove from public sale all lob wedges with 4*, 7*,  10* bounce and please replace these options with a 22* bounce because all golfers have the exact same hand eye coordination and need the exact same bounce on their lob wedges.  Also, because I want to hit it off of a green without touching the ground.  I don't mean this in the wrong way, by the way.

Best regards,

Tyler Brown

Houston, TX

I fully understand where there are shots where you feel more comfortable NOT using bounce.  Maybe a lot, and maybe you are very good at them.  Not at all suggesting that you should stop doing that, but for the sake of the OP, I believe that more versatility is a good thing.  But here's an honest question:

Can you explain or describe to me a shot where the extra bounce on the club actually HURTS you?

You can play shots using little to no bounce with high bounce wedges, however you can't do the opposite.  So if you never want to use bounce, then by all means, go with low bounce wedges.  But if there is ever a shot that might call for it, don't you think it would be nice to have it back there?

[geauxforbroke]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Can you explain or describe to me a shot where the extra bounce on the club actually HURTS you?

A shot that I play a lot is a low spinning shot that's hit with an open club face. It's not possible with a high bounce wedge unless it's sitting up.

[Ernest Jones]

A shot that I play a lot is a low spinning shot that's hit with an open club face. It's not possible with a high bounce wedge unless it's sitting up.

Crickets...lol

[TJBam]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

I fully understand where there are shots where you feel more comfortable NOT using bounce.  Maybe a lot, and maybe you are very good at them.  Not at all suggesting that you should stop doing that, but for the sake of the OP, I believe that more versatility is a good thing.  But here's an honest question:

Can you explain or describe to me a shot where the extra bounce on the club actually HURTS you?

You can play shots using little to no bounce with high bounce wedges, however you can't do the opposite.  So if you never want to use bounce, then by all means, go with low bounce wedges.  But if there is ever a shot that might call for it, don't you think it would be nice to have it back there?

First paragraph.  OK

Second paragraph.  Yes I could

Third paragraph.  Want to use a lob wedge with bounce??  I'll open up the face of my sand wedge.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by geauxforbroke

No I see the benefit of a high bounce wedge for some players. However, from experience, I've determined that a low bounce 60* wedge is best for me. I just don't appreciate being told that I'm wrong without someone seeing what I'm actually doing.

In other words, despite me asking that you take it in the manner in which it was written, you've chosen to be offended. That's fine. But again it's not how I wrote it.

I've simply got more shots than you do, and I can get closer to some pins and hit softer shots than you can.

Show us what you're actually doing, because what I'm doing is readily available .

We've taught a LOT of people, including Tour players, our pitching technique. They've all liked it and gotten better, and had more shots at their disposal. I literally don't know of one person who said "nah, that's not for me."

But at the end of the day, all I can do is share what I think will help people. If you decide "nah, that's not for me" it's really no skin off my nose, and you're still a fellow golf addict like me, and we'll always have that in common.

Originally Posted by geauxforbroke

A shot that I play a lot is a low spinning shot that's hit with an open club face. It's not possible with a high bounce wedge unless it's sitting up.

Sure it is, and several people here can attest to that.

[geauxforbroke]

Originally Posted by iacas

In other words, despite me asking that you take it in the manner in which it was written, you've chosen to be offended. That's fine. But again it's not how I wrote it.

I've simply got more shots than you do, and I can get closer to some pins and hit softer shots than you can.

Show us what you're actually doing, because what I'm doing is readily available.

We've taught a LOT of people, including Tour players, our pitching technique. They've all liked it and gotten better, and had more shots at their disposal. I literally don't know of one person who said "nah, that's not for me."

But at the end of the day, all I can do is share what I think will help people. If you decide "nah, that's not for me" it's really no skin off my nose, and you're still a fellow golf addict like me, and we'll always have that in common.

Just because you say "don't take this the wrong way" doesn't mean you can go off and say whatever you want. Your job as a teaching pro isn't to go around telling people they're "doing it wrong" and preaching the gospel of high bounce wedges.

I never insinuated that using a high bounce wedge is wrong, I only wanted to point out to the OP that there is no right or wrong.

Feel free to give input on how we can all improve, but don't be so arrogant to think that your way is the only "right" way.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by geauxforbroke

A shot that I play a lot is a low spinning shot that's hit with an open club face. It's not possible with a high bounce wedge unless it's sitting up.

Why not?  What do you think will happen if the club has bounce?   Look up above at Mike's video above.  He hits one off a green without blading it or even damaging the green.  Look at Phil's shot earlier this year in Florida off concrete.

So while you can (and should, because it works for you) continue playing that shot your way ... it is possible to do with a high bounce wedge, even if its not sitting up.

Originally Posted by TJBam

Second paragraph.  Yes I could

LOL ... I thought the part about actually describing the shot was implied, but no worries.  Whatever you can do with a low bounce wedge can also be done with a high bounce wedge.

Geaux's example above notwithstanding, most shots that require no bounce are played with the hands forward where you are using the leading edge of the club, right?  If you are playing it correctly, then you are also hitting the ball BEFORE you hit the ground, correct?  So then, what difference does it make if your divot, which comes completely after the ball, is a beaver pelt or just a little tuft of grass?

[geauxforbroke]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Geaux's example above notwithstanding, most shots that require no bounce are played with the hands forward where you are using the leading edge of the club, right?  If you are playing it correctly, then you are also hitting the ball BEFORE you hit the ground, correct?  So then, what difference does it make if your divot, which comes completely after the ball, is a beaver pelt or just a little tuft of grass?

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that using a low bounce wedge is the right way to go. It's what works for me. Over the past 20 years, I've tried nearly every combination of loft and bounce that's been mass produced. A 60* with 5* of bounce is the most versatile for my game. The whole point I was trying to make to the OP was to try as many combinations as possible to find what works best for him, whether that be a 60* with 5* of bounce, or a 58* with 18* of bounce.

[TJBam]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

LOL ... I thought the part about actually describing the shot was implied, but no worries.  Whatever you can do with a low bounce wedge can also be done with a high bounce wedge.

Not bothering with describing anything and quite frankly, I've had enough of being belittled on a supposedly friendly golf forum.

Good day buddy.

[geauxforbroke]

Originally Posted by TJBam

Not bothering with describing anything and quite frankly, I've had enough of being belittled on a supposedly friendly golf forum.

Good day buddy.

Easy now, I don't think anyone's belittling you. This thread just proved my earlier point to the OP. As my granddad used to say: there's more than one way to skin a cat.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by geauxforbroke

Just because you say "don't take this the wrong way" doesn't mean you can go off and say whatever you want.

I didn't say whatever I wanted. I didn't tell you that you suck, or that you're an idiot, or anything like that. Why? Because I don't think those things.

I do think you're simply unaware of the possibilities, and that you're limiting yourself unnecessarily. That's not rude. "You're doing it wrong" isn't a mean or rude comment. It means simply that you're missing out on some things, and in learning them, you can probably improve.

Someone might prefer a fork over a spoon, but maybe they are trying to eat soup, and they don't know how to use the spoon properly because they're trying to use it like a fork. You might be trying to use the still-very-little-bounce 8° wedge the same way you've trained yourself to use the virtually-no-bounce 4° wedge, and concluding that the spoon is not better than the fork. Sure it is - you simply have to know how to use it.

You said a low bounce wedge is more versatile. I believe the opposite. A high-bounce wedge used improperly (or "wrong") is less versatile and a worse tool, yes. But that's irrelevant. Using a 4-iron for flop shots isn't the wisest choice either. :)

Originally Posted by geauxforbroke

Your job as a teaching pro isn't to go around telling people they're "doing it wrong"

Well, it kind of is. More importantly, though, my job is to tell people how to do it better, which is what I've also tried to do in this thread (or even more so in the many videos and other threads on the topic).

Originally Posted by geauxforbroke

Feel free to give input on how we can all improve, but don't be so arrogant to think that your way is the only "right" way.

Not arrogance, no, just an opinion in which I'm fairly confident - that you're limiting your shot selection and haven't seen or learned how to add more variety to your shot selection from around the green from all sorts of lies.

I tried to put a cap on things by saying the bit about how we're all just golf addicts and that it's all good, but we're still talking about it. I've got a limit to how much I can type in a day, because I've got a family and other things I enjoy too, so occasionally when I want to say something and try to help people, I'll just phrase it how it first comes to mind and skip trying to figure out how to say something in a way that might not be taken the wrong way (even then it's often taken the wrong way). Text doesn't have a tone of voice, unfortunately.

I asked for the benefit of the doubt in the phrasing I chose at the time, and you were simply unwilling to give it. And again I say that's fine, you're still a "brother in golf" and thus welcome and appreciated, and I'm moving on now.

Cheers.

P.S. TJ, you weren't belittled. If you feel belittled, you're entitled to that emotion and I'm sorry. No intent or attempt at belittling you was made.

[geauxforbroke]

Well said, no hard feelings.