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Posted

My guess is that your distance will improve. Did the strike feel more solid?

On pretty much every shot I didn't hit fat it felt pretty good. Especially with the fact that I was hitting an old blade, I could tell my strike was a lot better. It took me a couple swings to realize why I was hitting it to the right then remembered it had no offset. Once I squared up the face I was right on line. Now I'm looking at buying some RazrX Tour irons with ds-g 300 stiff shafts. I'm pretty curious as to what I'll get to work on next.

More distance.... Not something I was looking for, but as long as it comes with more consistency that's all that really matters.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

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Posted

On pretty much every shot I didn't hit fat it felt pretty good. Especially with the fact that I was hitting an old blade, I could tell my strike was a lot better. It took me a couple swings to realize why I was hitting it to the right then remembered it had no offset. Once I squared up the face I was right on line. Now I'm looking at buying some RazrX Tour irons with ds-g 300 stiff shafts. I'm pretty curious as to what I'll get to work on next.

More distance.... Not something I was looking for, but as long as it comes with more consistency that's all that really matters.

When you get the swing more consistent you will have more power with less effort. @cipher was right when he posted him thread about gaining 10 yards in iron shots. That one par 3 yesterday I cranked that 9 iron 10 yards farther.

I think the DG S300's will be a golf shaft right in your area. A lot of good players play DG's.

Keep up the good work!!! If you find yourself hitting bad shots on the course, just really focus on that half swing feel, and look for solid contact. Even I still get caught overswinging a bit on the course. Its a change that will take time to make automatic.

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
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What's in My Bag
Driver; :pxg: 0311 Gen 5,  3-Wood: 
:titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: Sub 70 TAIII Fordged
Wedges: :edel: (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :leupold:
Bag: :ping:

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Posted

Jeremie, take this the right way please: fix this, and then you can begin working on your downswing sequencing (hips don't move forward much, hands late). Those will likely improve if you can feel like you stop here, but then you can begin to work on that massive flip, which is almost the entire reason you're whatever handicap you are right now.

MAKE yourself do this.

Shouldn't take long. Then you can begin working on the downswing pieces.

Ok, @iacas , I think I have the shortened backswing figured out, per my video and snapshots. Is there a certain amount of time you want me to keep working on that specific piece or is there a downswing piece I should start on now? I have a lot more time on my hands now that I'm on my own again, and having something to keep focused on will help me keep my mind off of being single again.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

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Posted

I think you are on the right track, but I think that when you were trying to shorten your swing you might have inadvertently limited your hip turn on the BS.. almost like an artificial shortening of the BS.  It looks to me like you are coming down a lot steeper on the DS because of this, and this is forcing you into the flip, because if you don't flip it (to shallow out the club at the last second) you would be digging deep into the ground.

Below is a video that I have been watching and I have been practicing the same exact move my self for the past 3 days or so, and it has helped me with getting into the correct position at the top of the backswing, and feel full without the need to limit my hips nor go crazy with how far back I go..  I think you should take a video doing this drill and then look at your position at the top, and see if you can copy it without the drill?

p.s.  I could be wrong with all that I have said above, but since I know this thread is being watched by @iacas I know he will have no issue correcting me if I'm wrong!

:adams: / :tmade: / :edel: / :aimpoint: / :ecco: / :bushnell: / :gamegolf: / 

Eyad

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  • Administrator
Posted
Ok, @iacas, I think I have the shortened backswing figured out, per my video and snapshots. Is there a certain amount of time you want me to keep working on that specific piece or is there a downswing piece I should start on now? I have a lot more time on my hands now that I'm on my own again, and having something to keep focused on will help me keep my mind off of being single again.

What Eyad said has some truth to it.

I'd prefer to see you get there with a bit more turning and a bit less "arm motion" - the ratio is a bit off right now and favors arm motion over turning.

But… if you were a student and you came to me with this swing, I don't think we'd do that before we attacked the downswing.

So… do I think people can "get" things in a day? Sometimes, but they're usually setup (static) pieces. Stick with this for a week (or feel like your backswing is still short but accomplished via more turn and less arms, if you could please), and then tag me next weekend and I'll get you on to the next piece.

P.S. This is a positive. A week to do something is a very short period of time. I'm not slow playing you… I often don't see students for a few months between lessons because change takes time. A week is a VERY short period of time.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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Posted

Ok, I'll work on this more. What I am understanding from those 2 pictures is on the left is where I should focus on hip turn to get to where I am on the right? I seem to have more upper body twist to get to the top than lower body. When I compare top of the backswing dtl pictures my chest in both pictures seems to be turned the same amount. Probably would have helped to have my shirt tucked in so my belt buckle would be a good reference. This shouldn't be too hard to work on with some slow motion work making sure to have a belt on to track the hip turn.. I will keep working on this for the next week and post another update then.

I think partially my hip rotation is less because previously it was a byproduct of my upper body turning so much it forced my lower body to turn and now I'll have to actually do it intentionally.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

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Posted

I've been stuck in the same lesson and drills for probably close to 6 months now.  So ... ;)

I'm pretty sure that once you get down to lower handicaps *single digit is low to me* it takes much more time to integrate the changes from lessons. By that time I'm thinking they are trying to fix smaller issues that are much harder to nail down.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator
Posted

I'm pretty sure that once you get down to lower handicaps *single digit is low to me* it takes much more time to integrate the changes from lessons. By that time I'm thinking they are trying to fix smaller issues that are much harder to nail down.

Just be careful when you move on the the next priority piece.  Sometimes we lose focus on the previous piece.  Your first priority is shortening your swing.  I would suggests the first 5 minutes of your practice session should be focused on this as a warm up to the next part.  I do this so I don't lose Keys 1 and 2, which I have worked on in the past.

Scott

Titleist, Edel, Scotty Cameron Putter, Snell - AimPoint - Evolvr - MirrorVision

My Swing Thread

boogielicious - Adjective describing the perfect surf wave

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Posted

Just be careful when you move on the the next priority piece.  Sometimes we lose focus on the previous piece.  Your first priority is shortening your swing.  I would suggests the first 5 minutes of your practice session should be focused on this as a warm up to the next part.  I do this so I don't lose Keys 1 and 2, which I have worked on in the past.

Ah, I have not doubt that the long backswing will try to creep back in. But I keep watch on everything I've worked on to make sure I don't backslide. I'm planning on buying one of those nets that I can put up in the garage for this winter so I don't have to start all over again next year. I may get 2 of the canon cameras to set up dtl and face on while practicing so I can just hit balls without shuffling the cameras around.

My point in general was just that I can see how people who are pretty far along in their swing progression start hitting things that are harder to integrate as opposed to those of us who are just starting out and are making pretty easy changes by comparison.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
Posted
Ok, I'll work on this more. What I am understanding from those 2 pictures is on the left is where I should focus on hip turn to get to where I am on the right? I seem to have more upper body twist to get to the top than lower body.

No, those pictures illustrate that you over-use your arms a bit and under-use your turns (both hips and torso) to get to the top.

Same clubhead and arm position (and thus the same shaft position), but less use of the arms to get them there, and more use of the turning rates to get there.

They're just two photos of the same swing to show that the turning rates are slow relative to the arms.

When I compare top of the backswing dtl pictures my chest in both pictures seems to be turned the same amount.

Compare:

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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Posted

Ok, I see how much less turn I have in those comparisons. The one thing I notice though is my wrist cock is a lot more pronounced which will make it harder to keep the same club position if I get that much body turn. I don't know if that will make it harder to actually hit the correct club position at the top or not.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

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Posted

would be interesting to compare the next few frames.. I notice Tw's right knee bowed in .. yours out..  john m


  • Administrator
Posted
Ok, I see how much less turn I have in those comparisons. The one thing I notice though is my wrist cock is a lot more pronounced which will make it harder to keep the same club position if I get that much body turn. I don't know if that will make it harder to actually hit the correct club position at the top or not.

Yes. It also cups your wrist, leading to downswing problems.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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Posted

Yes. It also cups your wrist, leading to downswing problems.

Is this something I need to work on in conjunction with the body turn then to make sure I'm actually hitting the correct position at the top?

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
Posted
You will work on it by doing the backswing properly. But it is mostly a downswing piece. Get the club head and your hands and arms to the same position while using more turn and less arms. Less arms also means less wrists.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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Posted

Ok, good to know, I'll revisit the thread next week with an updated video. Unless I'm having issues then I'll update with a video of me working on getting to the right position for pointers if I'm doing it wrong.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

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Posted

Ok, just a quick update, I was working on the drill that Eyad posted and it seems like increasing my lower back twist is causing me some pain in the area where I have the rods and pins in my back. I don't know if this is because it's a new position and my body just needs to get used to it or if it's a physical stopping point I'm trying to get beyond. I will keep testing this to see how far I can go without the pain starting.

Also, I noticed there was some movement of my head down as I increased my body turn and my left leg bent forward. It seems like Tiger also has some lateral movement of his head in the pictures also. Does this mean it is normal and ok for that to happen or should I work to minimize that?

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
Posted

Ok, just a quick update, I was working on the drill that Eyad posted and it seems like increasing my lower back twist is causing me some pain in the area where I have the rods and pins in my back. I don't know if this is because it's a new position and my body just needs to get used to it or if it's a physical stopping point I'm trying to get beyond. I will keep testing this to see how far I can go without the pain starting.

Also, I noticed there was some movement of my head down as I increased my body turn and my left leg bent forward. It seems like Tiger also has some lateral movement of his head in the pictures also. Does this mean it is normal and ok for that to happen or should I work to minimize that?

I wouldn't worry about that drill much, but video is better than descriptions. Mind your camera angles and get some video if you could…

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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Note: This thread is 1371 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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  • Posts

    • Day 610 - 2026-06-03 Got some work in between lessons today. Rare late day, teaching until 7:30pm.
    • Let's continue on… Cool. The thing is, nobody's claiming par is "reliable" and par's inclusion piggy-backs in the course rating, which is awfully close to par and, thus, brings par in to make it make sense. Once again, for those in the back… (CR - Par) just makes it really easy to know what kind of score you need to shoot to best, match, or play worse than your handicap index. Yes, when par is different, the players from the higher par tees get an extra stroke (72 vs. 71, the 72s get an extra stroke. That makes sense and is a small complication (more info at https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/handicapping/roh/Content/rules/Committee%20Content/USGA/LG_R6d.htm). However, most of the time, this adjustment will not be needed, as many courses play to the same par for the same genders from all sets of tees. And, the rare times it is needed, par (measured in whole numbers, integers) and strokes (also whole numbers/integers) map easily and the idea is easily grasped. Dean seems to be unaware of the fact that most every golfer carries something orders of magnitude more powerful than the highest end desktop computers available the last time he consulted with the USGA in their pockets. While it is quaint that his club puts printouts by the first tee… get with the times, Dean. Look up your handicap index and course handicap in the GHIN app and get on with it. It's a better system than the one that didn't account — at all — for a difference in the playing conditions (via an algorithm, not a judgment). Dean's assertions about the "less precise system because of par" continues to make absolutely zero sense. Right, it still changed tee to tee. Now it just changes differently… and in a way that more accurately reflects the score you need to shoot to play to your handicap. Previously, a 1.1 index would get 1 stroke on a 66.7/122 par-72 course. Now they give four strokes back to the course and must shoot 68 to play to their handicap. This makes way more sense. The 18-shot difference is a pretty extreme example. Maybe a long course that also offers a par-three set of tees could play that long, but… man, that's not going to be super common. Sensationalistic much, Dean? Also, once those unhappy (complete assumption) golfers realize a) what the change shows them (playing to net par = playing to your index) and b) realizes that their differential is going to be the same… I think they'll get over their initial questions. No. And yet… if he shoots the same scores, he'll get the same handicap index he has now. But he'll know on each course what score he needs to shoot to "play to his handicap." Sheesh, Dean. This stuff isn't that hard to figure out. Enough with the sensationalistic stuff. I don't find it "unacceptable" at all. Then again, I'm not nearly 80 and seemingly incapable of doing basic math these days. No. This literally makes no sense, as that part of the differential calculation and the course handicap calculation remains identical. Good! No. Categorically wrong. They should have been adjusting their handicaps all along. Previously it was by subtracting the course ratings. Which… is still basically what's done, with the addition of the course rating being "baked in" to the course handicap calculation. Dean is wrong here, or doing some math heretofore unknown by the world. When par is the same, what determines the difference in handicaps? The course rating, which Dean loves! Sheesh! You had to things when players were in situations like this before, too. This is getting exhausting. He keeps using words like "less precise" and "unfair" but does not seem to understand what they mean. This is like the Princess Bride meme: "you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." The caps reduce upward movement. Committees have reign to reduce a player's handicap, and there's still an automatic Exceptional Score Reduction. I'm going through these more quickly now because… well, it's silly how badly Dean misses the mark with this blog post. Dean is literally confusing the upward movement (with the soft and hard caps) here with the exceptional score reduction which is used when lowering handicaps due to an exceptionally good score. The creators of the WHS are handicap experts. They know more about the current state of handicaps/handicapping than the Pope Emeritus. It's been shown to have almost no effect across all handicaps. Yes, some 36s under the old system are now 35s under the new system. Yawn. He should have stopped there. It's easier to apply and makes more sense. This makes no sense. It's "not complex" but players will have to guess? And, for men or women, the stroke index of each hole doesn't change because they play a different set of tees. They get a different number of strokes, but it's always been true that when you get 14 strokes you apply a stroke to stroke index holes 1-14, and when you get 11, to just holes with a SI of 1-11. Objection, your honor. Assumes facts not in evidence. Dean's just out here continuing to make shit up about "the inaccuracy of par" and ignoring that with Par (an integer) came the Course Rating, which he agrees is precise and accurate. No. No, this is inaccurate. Also, as noted, you can randomly assign stroke indexes, and so long as all the low numbers or all the high numbers are not clumped together at the beginning or ends of the 18 holes, matches generally work out the same. This is inaccurate. It is an algorithm that looks at scores. That's it. Also, this is better than a system like the prior one where no such thing existed at all. Wildly inaccurate and off-base. Did they do actual testing? No need. They have millions and millions of rounds and ran many, many, many simulations. That's testing. Dean seems to continue to be unaware of the fact that computers are more powerful now than they were in 2002. But, he's nearly 80, so we can understand if not going so far as to give him a pass on how much he gets wrong. Cool. Noted. For the most part that was because many countries haven't been able to rate enough of their courses. :sigh:
    • Day 3 (3 Jun 26) - More work on keeping arms connected today - hard foam balls with 7i and 5w…..
    • Day 274 6-3 flow drill getting chest through, arms in front. Arms get a little pinned to the side, not as much in front as I want them when I add speed. 
    • Shot 48 yesterday.  For me bogey golf is good.  I was 10 over through 7 and figured with a Par 3 and 4 coming on all I needed was birdie / par to get my 45. I had a great tee shot on #8 and sunk  a 5 footer for birdie, game was coming together, now just needed par on #9. Had a great tee drive and the green was within range for a hoped GIR or nGIR.  But I pulled the shot left into tall weeds and needed to take a drop.  So much for par, but a bogey for 46 is still good for me. I hit my lob wedge to get over a small tree and saw the ball riding nicely  on line to the pin when my club hit the ball a 2nd time on my follow through causing the ball to change directions and ended up @ pin high but along the same tall weeds I just took an unplayable out of.  had no room for a backswing, Just hacked at it and it shot across the green to the rough on the far side.  Needed a chip & 1 putt got a triple bogey. you can see the hole fall apart in the screenshot below.  
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