My Swing (JonMA1)

[JonMA1]

I tried to take advantage of our January thaw and hit some balls from off the lawn today. I brought the gap wedge and 4i out.

My 3/4 swings with the gap wedge were money - great contact, starting line and distance control.

My full swing 4i... not so much.

I just couldn't feel anything I've been working on, even with slow swings. I tried to concentrate on mechanics - specifically weight shift - and things would improve slightly before I'd lose focus again. Part of the problem is it was raining so damned hard I couldn't maintain any sort of grip. Still, nothing felt right. Decent contact, ball flight and club face control were almost non-existent. Probably working on too many things at once.

Still, it was good to be out there and watch some ball flight. Temps are dropping rapidly tonight and by tomorrow we're back in teens and single digits with snow in the forecast.

[Used to Be a 3]

I looked at your swing posted on January 1, and aside from that head bobbing up and down like those plastic birds they used to have back in our day that would "drink" from the glass, that's a pretty fair swing.  Not a bad position at impact.  It looks like if you can keep that head more quiet at the top of your backswing, you'd probably start making pretty clean contact and play much better than 22, assuming the short game is OK.

[JonMA1]

4 hours ago, Used to Be a 3 said:

that head bobbing up and down like those plastic birds they used to have back in our day that would "drink" from the glass

Lol. Nice analogy. I remember those birds. But if memory serves, their movements were smooth, rhythmic, measured and had a tempo to them.... nothing at all like my spastic golf swing.

A better comparison (from the same era) would have been those dogs placed in the back of cars who's heads would bob up and down as the car drove down a bumpy road.

Seriously, thank you for the feedback @Used to Be a 3.

 

[Used to Be a 3]

3 hours ago, JonMA1 said:

Lol. Nice analogy. I remember those birds. But if memory serves, their movements were smooth, rhythmic, measured and had a tempo to them.... nothing at all like my spastic golf swing.

A better comparison (from the same era) would have been those dogs placed in the back of cars who's heads would bob up and down as the car drove down a bumpy road.

Seriously, thank you for the feedback @Used to Be a 3.

 

 

Yep, good one.  I don't think you're too far away from playing a lot better.  Looked at your swing at the start of this thread years back, lots of improvement.  LOTS!

[Lihu]

17 hours ago, JonMA1 said:

Lol. Nice analogy. I remember those birds. But if memory serves, their movements were smooth, rhythmic, measured and had a tempo to them.... nothing at all like my spastic golf swing.

A better comparison (from the same era) would have been those dogs placed in the back of cars who's heads would bob up and down as the car drove down a bumpy road.

Seriously, thank you for the feedback @Used to Be a 3.

 

You don’t look inconsistent at all. If fact, your Swing looks better that many people I play. Just improve some efficiency in your motion. Like I said in an earlier post, one of my friends took a year just to fix tha one thing, and is playing a lot better now.

 

13 hours ago, Used to Be a 3 said:

Yep, good one.  I don't think you're too far away from playing a lot better.  Looked at your swing at the start of this thread years back, lots of improvement.  LOTS!

Agree, get rid of the head movement and shave off some strokes.

[JonMA1]

7 hours ago, Lihu said:

You don’t look inconsistent at all. If fact, your Swing looks better that many people I play. Just improve some efficiency in your motion. Like I said in an earlier post, one of my friends took a year just to fix tha one thing, and is playing a lot better now.

Agreed. Just have to develop the right feel.

I think what Erik was suggesting a couple of posts back is that the root cause may be from opening my hips too much too soon. So far, it's proving to be a hard habit to break. Just focusing on my hips has not yet produced favorable results. If anything, attempts at minimizing this have created other issues.

I took some video yesterday while really concentrating on 1) restricting my hips on the take away while 2) keeping my head in the same position throughout the backswing. Epic fail. Similar early hip rotation, same head movement forward and down.

I'm going to try something different. If the feel of my head staying still results in head movement down and forward, the feel of my head moving up and back might result in my head staying closer to it's original position at address.

I'm not too concerned about succeeding or failing with this. It's winter and I have time to goof around with trying to improve it a little.

[billchao]

3 hours ago, JonMA1 said:

I'm going to try something different. If the feel of my head staying still results in head movement down and forward, the feel of my head moving up and back might result in my head staying closer to it's original position at address.

You have the right idea. Exaggerate it. Feel what you need to get the move that you want. You know feel ain't real, now make it work for you 

[RandallT]

Hi Jon! Just throwing out an idea that has worked for me and head stabilization:

Since you wear a ball cap, do swings where you look at some reference point right beyond the edge of the brim of your cap.  Don’t look at the ball. Just focus on that reference point and keep the brim of your cap right there.  

My experience is that makes me aware of the 3D head movement as I move my body.  Do it a bunch of times in a row. Exaggerate the body movements but keep that brim focused on the same point. 

You don’t even need a club. You can go through the body motions anytime you want. You look like an idiot if someone in the family sees you but hey, not like we don’t look like idiots anyway.

Over time, it just became a steady head feel that lasted for me. 

[JonMA1]

6 hours ago, RandallT said:

Since you wear a ball cap, do swings where you look at some reference point right beyond the edge of the brim of your cap.  Don’t look at the ball. Just focus on that reference point and keep the brim of your cap right there.

I'll definitely give this a try, Randy. Thanks.

Don't know how true it is, but I heard or read Ben Hogan would use a pipe or cigarette and focus that on a reference point as you've described.

6 hours ago, RandallT said:

You look like an idiot if someone in the family sees you but hey, not like we don’t look like idiots anyway.

Yeah, my wife has seen it all.... putting while in my bathrobe, watching my reflection in our bay window while practicing the full swing with no club, using a pile of laundry as an impact bag. Even last night, I was recording the feel I described above while in my bathrobe.

[JonMA1]

I've been working towards reducing head movement for the last couple of weeks. The feel was to have my head going back (away from the target) and up as I get to the top.

While I think the feel helps a little to keep my head from dipping vertically at the top, there is still some vertical movement and a lot of movement forward (toward the ball) as seen DTL. There's a lot of work to do and even with the half dozen swings during this video recording, there was considerable variation.

I seem unable to restrict my hips and am still getting too much turn too early. I've done this for a long time so changing it has proven to be difficult.

I know what I'm doing wrong... opening my hips to get that out of the way first. What (I think) I should be doing is turning my shoulders first and only turning my hips enough to allow for a full shoulder turn. Easier said than done.

On a positive note, I was able to work on my driver and 5w off the deck last night. Was somewhat encouraged with keys 4 and 5.

[JonMA1]

Rant....

Well, the cycle continues. I just cannot take the slow practice and apply it when hitting a ball outside.

Have been working on one piece (shown on my last post) all week with good results. Slow practice swings concentrating on key #1 while going back and then coming down and through. I then apply that feel to slowly hitting a ball. Feels like the same swing.

I took video today to see if anything else has slipped back and sure enough, it has in a pretty big way. Hips slide back, weight stays back.

So frustrating not to be able to engrain anything into my swing. What I'm trying to accomplish might or might not be correct, but that's irrelevant. Everything reverts back as soon as I hit a ball. Results aren't bad. Contact, ball flight, starting line are ok overall, but the swing looks like shit... pretty much like the first swing I ever posted in this thread.

It's so hard to keep beating my head against this wall. It's like 6 ^$@!ing years of effort down the toilet. How does that happen? How does nothing positive carry over? (rhetorical questions, not really looking for any help here)

I understand why people just give up on mechanics and instead concentrate on playing the best they can with a f'd up swing.

Rant over.

[billchao]

@JonMA1, why don't you film your practice and post it? I get the feeling that you understand the whole slow swings to make changes concept, but I kind of want to see how you're applying it.

We talk about practicing at the edge of your abilities, so if there is a swing you can make on the ball where you're doing the movements correctly - even if it means hitting a 7i 50 yards - then that's what you should be doing. Speed up gradually.

If there isn't a speed slow enough where that change is happening, then revisit your feels. Stand in front of a mirror and pivot properly, then figure out what that feels like to you.

[Jack Watson]

Read Ernest Jones book Swinging into golf

 

Edited January 28, 2018 by Jack Watson

[JonMA1]

1 hour ago, billchao said:

@JonMA1, why don't you film your practice and post it? I get the feeling that you understand the whole slow swings to make changes concept, but I kind of want to see how you're applying it.

We talk about practicing at the edge of your abilities, so if there is a swing you can make on the ball where you're doing the movements correctly - even if it means hitting a 7i 50 yards - then that's what you should be doing. Speed up gradually.

If there isn't a speed slow enough where that change is happening, then revisit your feels. Stand in front of a mirror and pivot properly, then figure out what that feels like to you.

Hi Bill. Of course I could have practiced better, but it's not like I've been out there taking nothing but full swings for the last several years. If you click the My Golf link in my signature below, most are just the resulting swing without the repetition. But there is one video showing how I practice a priority with the driver (DTL Driver720) and is how I practice the full swing with every club most of the time.

I used your method last winter and made some substantial progress in changing the picture (relatively). But the changes just didn't take. I may have started off the season a little better, but by mid-season the swing had become so bastardized my front foot was coming off the ground on the follow-through. The thing is, I couldn't tell by the shot results.

I get the concept and believe it is the right way to improve for 99% of the population. If asked, I'd recommend it to anyone else. Work on it slowly and don't speed up until the change has become unconscious. But seriously, how to you play an entire year of golf (or more) swinging at 30%?

It's all good. I'm just frustrated and honestly a bit surprised by how far back I had fallen. It's not like I'm going to stop playing or anything.

1 hour ago, Jack Watson said:

Read Ernest Jones book Swinging into golf

I appreciate the advice @Jack Watson. I know you believe this book can help a lot of folks, but the last thing I need right now is another rabbit hole to go down. Maybe some day I'll read it. If so, you'll be the first to know what I think about it.

---

If I had Ernest Jones, Bob Rotella, Ben Hogan and Sean Foley at every one of my practices, none of their advice would do a bit of good as long as I keep defaulting back to swinging off my back foot and moving my head around throughout the swing.

Golf is a tough game even for those who are naturally gifted. Guys like me have little chance. That doesn't mean the game can't be enjoyable. So if my scoring average improves just one stroke every season - or even if it doesn't - so be it.

[iacas]

1 minute ago, JonMA1 said:

Golf is a tough game even for those who are naturally gifted. Guys like me have little chance. That doesn't mean the game can't be enjoyable. So if my scoring average improves just one stroke every season - or even if it doesn't - so be it.

Then just give up on practicing and only play golf. Occasionally practice chipping and putting, but that's it. Warm up if you want before a round, but otherwise… just play. Give up on getting significantly better though practice. You don't seem to enjoy it.

Or take up the game lefty. Short circuit everything.

If practicing and not actually changing anything is frustrating, stop.

[JonMA1]

31 minutes ago, iacas said:

Then just give up on practicing and only play golf. Occasionally practice chipping and putting, but that's it. Warm up if you want before a round, but otherwise… just play. Give up on getting significantly better though practice. You don't seem to enjoy it.

Or take up the game lefty. Short circuit everything.

If practicing and not actually changing anything is frustrating, stop.

Erik, I love practicing. I love making clean contact and getting the ball to do what I want - even when that comes from 3/4 swings. I have 5 months out of the year where practice is the closest I get to playing actual golf... and I can't get enough.

The frustration comes from knowing that without improvement of the fundamentals, I'll never get to the point of consistent results.

So maybe you're right. Maybe I should just get out there, pick a target in the distance and whack golf balls without any intention of improving. I never considered it, but it seems the obvious solution right about now.

Thanks!

[iacas]

@JonMA1, I don't know what to tell you.

Where does the breakdown occur? Where does it go from "you can do it" to "you can't do it at all"? Is it:

• while hitting foam balls into a net indoors?
• while hitting real balls into a net indoors?
• while hitting foam balls outside?
• while hitting real balls outside?
• while hitting real balls outside to an actual target?
• while playing golf on a golf course?

The farther up the list you shift from being able to "do" it to not being able to "do" it, the worse off you are, TBH.

I've never really met someone who can't transfer. That said, again, I still don't know how you're practicing. I'd echo a bit of what @billchao said. Film 20 minutes of your practice and upload it.

[JonMA1]

3 hours ago, iacas said:

@JonMA1, I don't know what to tell you.

It was just a rant. There isn't anything anyone can do about it and I wasn't really looking for answers.

3 hours ago, iacas said:

Where does the breakdown occur? Where does it go from "you can do it" to "you can't do it at all"? Is it:

Again, not looking for answers but wanted reply to your questions... 

I know there is often a breakdown at the course (I don't take a lot of video while playing). Even without the video, there are times when I finish with my weight forward and times when I don't. The times I've taken video, there's been little correlation between mechanics and results. In other words, poor looking swings have good results.

I've taken video at the range and in my yard where what I'm practicing is easy to transfer to when I swing at the ball.

Hitting real balls into a net is pretty good overall. Most of the issues are mild and less frequent... easy to "bring back". That said, today was like going back 3 years. I'd start from address, bring the club to the top, centered hip turn, start my downswing without a slide back, pull the handle and stop. I'd do that several times trying to get the feel of everything before hitting the ball. When viewing the video, everything looked "ok" until I got to the real swing. It was like going back 3 or 4 years. Hence the rant.