Question about walking the course

[MS256]

Originally Posted by Meltdwhiskey

If it is cart path only, the walker wins every time.

I'll take that bet too. Not a chance in the world a guy walking is going to play faster than me in a cart (cart path only or not). The only chance a walker has to beat me for speed is if he's carrying one club and named Usain Bolt.

Most of the time cart path only doesn't slow me down at all. I just put more effort into laying up close to the cart path. Every course I've ever played has at least 2 or 3 holes where it takes a walker longer to go from tee to green than it would take me to go from tee to green and complete the next hole.

When I first joined a golf club I didn't have a cart but it became very obvious that wasn't going to work if I wanted to play in the 12:30 money game. Some of the players had to leave at 2:30 to pick their kids up from school and a walker in a foursome of three people in their own carts was an anchor. To play in that game you not only needed a cart but also a fast cart.

Sure, I can walk that course in 2 hours by myself but not playing golf with a foursome. Even playing ready golf (which we all certainly did, sometimes to an extreme) there are still times where we have to wait, and can't just drive (or walk) up to a ball in the middle of the fairway to play our shot while somebody else is farther back putting us right in their line of fire.

Drove me crazy when I was the guy wanting to hit my second shot after hooking a tee shot, but couldn't because an overzealous "ready golfer" is standing right in the line of fire for my next shot, and in their own little world.

[Meltdwhiskey]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

You keep saying "I", so maybe you mostly play alone.  I'm talking two against two.  Put me alone in a cart and you alone walking and I'll still be faster without even trying.  Put me and my buddy each in our own cart and the two of us will be faster than you alone.  The odds are very good that we will be faster than you even if we share a cart.

Originally Posted by Kletus

A walker playing an open course against people in a cart who know how to use it effectively is going to get run to death during a round of golf.   Most of the time though it really won't matter because you will run in to others and end up waiting.   Occasionally a situation will occur that will cause the cart group to slow down.. but most of the time they will easily drive to their ball, hit, and then sit back and watch the walker get to his ball and go through his routine.  They will then head to the green and be waiting on the walker to get there.  If you aren't playing ready golf this will LOOK like the walker is keeping up.. but in actuality the cart group will be spending a fair amount of time on "most" holes waiting.

Originally Posted by MS256

I'll take that bet too. Not a chance in the world a guy walking is going to play faster than me in a cart (cart path only or not). The only chance a walker has to beat me for speed is if he's carrying one club and named Usain Bolt.

Most of the time cart path only doesn't slow me down at all. I just put more effort into laying up close to the cart path. Every course I've ever played has at least 2 or 3 holes where it takes a walker longer to go from tee to green than it would take me to go from tee to green and complete the next hole.

You seem to be taking it kind of personally that I contend that walking isn't slowing down golf.  I'm starting to think that there might be something very walker-friendly about my course that creates a different experience that what you are seeing.  And I did say that my experience would definitely not apply to a course with long green to tee distances.

I never claimed that a walker alone was going to outpace a guy in a cart alone.  I'm just trying to paint a picture for the OP.  And maybe some of the people on this site who care about playing fast and have given cart strategy some thought - yeah, you're going to beat the walker.

BUT - my experience with walking (as the sole walker in a group, as one of the walkers in a group, and in a group that is only walkers) is that it isn't slowing down the pace of play at a pretty fast course (by pretty fast I mean that a 4.5 hour round on a crowded Saturday is about as slow as it gets).

I (we) never get 'run to death' on the course. That is ridiculous. People are not waiting for me (us) to arrive at the tee box or the green - it is in fact often the opposite. And maybe you are good enough to always hit near the path on path only holes (days), but most golfers are not.  So many have trouble keeping their ball out of the woods on the opposite side of the fairway from the path.

And getting to the green?  If I play with 3 guys in carts, there will very often be one of the guys who has hit to within 30-70 yards or so of the green.  You know the area where you can't get any closer with the cart?  So he has to leave his cart a little behind him, pull a club, walk to his ball, hit - after which, the walker can make a bee line to the green.  But cart guy has to return to his cart, de-club, drive over to the path, then down the path, then re-club, then walk over to the green.  The walker has an advantage here.

I also don't find my group (regardless of walkers or carts) to get left behind by all-cart groups in front.  This idea that the riders are always waiting around on the boxes and greens for walkers just doesn't happen to me.  It is just silly. And I don't think it is a problem that the OP has to worry about if he wants to walk.

I understand what you are saying.  And before I started walking more (which I do probably 75% of the time now), I really considered walking to be a slower way to play.  But having done it a bunch now - I was surprised to find out that it isn't the case.

[MS256]

Originally Posted by Meltdwhiskey

You seem to be taking it kind of personally that I contend that walking isn't slowing down golf.  I'm starting to think that there might be something very walker-friendly about my course that creates a different experience that what you are seeing.  And I did say that my experience would definitely not apply to a course with long green to tee distances.

I never claimed that a walker alone was going to outpace a guy in a cart alone.  I'm just trying to paint a picture for the OP.  And maybe some of the people on this site who care about playing fast and have given cart strategy some thought - yeah, you're going to beat the walker.

BUT - my experience with walking (as the sole walker in a group, as one of the walkers in a group, and in a group that is only walkers) is that it isn't slowing down the pace of play at a pretty fast course (by pretty fast I mean that a 4.5 hour round on a crowded Saturday is about as slow as it gets).

I (we) never get 'run to death' on the course. That is ridiculous.  People are not waiting for me (us) to arrive at the tee box or the green - it is in fact often the opposite. And maybe you are good enough to always hit near the path on path only holes (days), but most golfers are not.  So many have trouble keeping their ball out of the woods on the opposite side of the fairway from the path.

And getting to the green?  If I play with 3 guys in carts, there will very often be one of the guys who has hit to within 30-70 yards or so of the green.  You know the area where you can't get any closer with the cart?  So he has to leave his cart a little behind him, pull a club, walk to his ball, hit - after which, the walker can make a bee line to the green.  But cart guy has to return to his cart, de-club, drive over to the path, then down the path, then re-club, then walk over to the green.  The walker has an advantage here.

I also don't find my group (regardless of walkers or carts) to get left behind by all-cart groups in front.  This idea that the riders are always waiting around on the boxes and greens for walkers just doesn't happen to me.  It is just silly. And I don't think it is a problem that the OP has to worry about if he wants to walk.

I understand what you are saying.  And before I started walking more (which I do probably 75% of the time now), I really considered walking to be a slower way to play.  But having done it a bunch now - I was surprised to find out that it isn't the case.

I agree with almost everything you said, and I certainly think walkers can play at a more than acceptable pace (I've done it many times myself). I have gone off of the first tee behind walkers that played faster than my normal pace in a cart (which is about a 2 1/2 to 3 hour average if I'm not held up).

None of that is the statement I addressed.

[RayG]

I am sticking to my original sentiment about walking with folks on a cart. In a group of mixed abilities on a normal popular public course, on a busy weekend, walking is NO SLOWER than a cart. There's no place to go anyway...

[saevel25]

From experience, being an advid walker and have been required to drive a cart. If you are on a busy course, both methods take the same amount of Time. Given i think walkers are probably stuck at the higher end, just by limit of walking speed. If i was by myself, i could probably do 18 holes, riding in under an hour.

What causes this same amount of time, basically 4 hours. First is the inefficiency of golf carts. You loose time going between golf balls, and sharing a cart, they are not as mobile when concerning larger groups. It just is, a lot of times you end up with one person sitting there waiting while the first hits before going to the other person's ball. It happens a lot.

But, the over riding factor for golf, is how well a person plays. for one thing, putting takes the longest. Just because if your averaging over 2 putts a hole, your looking at 8+ strokes in a confined space, not including short game. In the fairway you can have multiple distances and people can clear faster, just how it goes.

But basically there seems to be a uniform pace of play on a golf course, and its pretty much the flow of the game. Its basically dictated around ready golf. If people can be ready to hit when its there turn, then the game flows faster, if not then you just lump all the shots in a row, and things get tied up.

If you walk 6000 yard course, your looking at probably 7500 yards of total walking distance, that is about 85 minutes of walking speed. Lets say you don't wait per shot, how long does your shot take to hit. 10-15 seconds to determine the yardage, 10 to determine the club, 20 seconds on preshot routine,, so what 45 seconds per shot, just guessing. My one friend is fast, when he decides his club, its 12 seconds from preshot to lift off of golf ball. So even if you hit 90 shots your looking at 70 minutes of golfing. That's what, 155 minutes, just over 2 hours for one person to play 18 holes, shooting 90.

But lets say if each player can't start his routine till the other person hits, all shoot 90, your looking at 4 hours of golfing time just on shots hit, not walking. So, 6 hours of golf if no one played ready golf. See how it can stack up fast.

But playing ready golf, you can easily get walking under 4 hours. Its not that difficult. honestly if you walk, the perception of waiting will decrease, because you spend more time walking, instead of sitting in a cart waiting because you got to your ball fast. :p

[trackster]

Originally Posted by saevel25

From experience, being an advid walker and have been required to drive a cart. If you are on a busy course, both methods take the same amount of Time. Given i think walkers are probably stuck at the higher end, just by limit of walking speed. If i was by myself, i could probably do 18 holes, riding in under an hour.

Can you really in under an hour or is that a misprint?  I walk in about 2:15-2:30 with waits included, i would think I could do maybe 1:20 in a cart.  I think as the number of golfers in the group increases the more similar walking play will mirror cart play speed wise.  A single in a cart will smoke a similar ability walker everyday of the week and twice on Sunday (always wanted to use that quote).  But a 4 some of walkers can play just as fast as a 4 some using 2 carts.

Like many people have said when a busy course mandates waiting anyways, walking will virtually be no different than riding.

[Hacker James]

Wasn't it President Bush (Herbie Walker) that used to "speed golf" ?

[moose44]

Jump in brother.  Walking is the best way to play the game.  I walk with my normal group every sat and sun morning at the local muni (all 4 of us walk).  When we are the first group out we finish in right around 3 1/2 hours.  I think it is just as fast as a foursome in carts b/c everyone heads right to their balls and is ready to hit.

It's also some good exercise.  I dropped 10 lbs the summer we started walking.

[Alfa 115]

Originally Posted by jimmer1609

next time i play i  might try walking to see how i do then... i made me a makeshift push cart out of an old baby stroller that seems like it will work just fine !!!

OK,  We need to see pictures of that cart.  Ha ha

[anthony]

Carts are faster, obviously; especially if it's one guy in a cart. Overall, it depends on the golfer's skill level. I can walk my home course in under three hours playing by myself. That includes hitting shots over, taking a few putts, etc. A semi-practice round. I saw two people in a cart teeing off on #13 (a par 5) while I was walking to the 11th green Monday and I was waiting for them on the 17th tee box. I was playing pretty good, but nothing too spectacular.

[Lash]

The x-factor, as has been mentioned, is when people share a cart. If you have a foursome with 2 carts, each cart has to go to each spot, and at some point that is going to slow you down because you have to line up for one shot, then go to the other and line up. Give 4 walkers a push cart and let them each walk to their own ball, and they'll play faster a lot of the time since they can hit as soon as the person behind them has hit and will already be prepared when it is their turn.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Lash

The x-factor, as has been mentioned, is when people share a cart. If you have a foursome with 2 carts, each cart has to go to each spot, and at some point that is going to slow you down because you have to line up for one shot, then go to the other and line up. Give 4 walkers a push cart and let them each walk to their own ball, and they'll play faster a lot of the time since they can hit as soon as the person behind them has hit and will already be prepared when it is their turn.

And the people in the carts can do the same.  It's called knowing how to properly use a cart.  Proper cart play doesn't involve one guy sitting as waiting for the other guy before moving on to his ball.  You drop one off at his ball, then the other drives on to his.  By this time the first guy has played, then the second one plays and picks up his buddy as they drive to the green.  If their balls happen to be in line so they can't do the drop off, the second one to play can still estimate his shot (or maybe even walk up and get the distance while is buddy is getting ready) and pull a couple of clubs to be more ready when it is his turn.

I play with a lot of different guys, and we never just sit around waiting like that unless it's because the course is busy, slow, and there is no place to go anyway.  Most of the time when the cart stops, both of us get out, one to play and the other to get ready to play, or to clean a club from the previous shot, or some other task which doesn't need to be done while actually making a shot.  The people who do those things when they are supposed to be playing are the ones who give all riders a bad rep.  Unfortunately, I've watched walkers park their trolleys and screw around just as badly, so it sure isn't all at the feet of cart golfers.

[Lash]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

And the people in the carts can do the same.  It's called knowing how to properly use a cart.  Proper cart play doesn't involve one guy sitting as waiting for the other guy before moving on to his ball.  You drop one off at his ball, then the other drives on to his.  By this time the first guy has played, then the second one plays and picks up his buddy as they drive to the green.  If their balls happen to be in line so they can't do the drop off, the second one to play can still estimate his shot (or maybe even walk up and get the distance while is buddy is getting ready) and pull a couple of clubs to be more ready when it is his turn.

I play with a lot of different guys, and we never just sit around waiting like that unless it's because the course is busy, slow, and there is no place to go anyway.  Most of the time when the cart stops, both of us get out, one to play and the other to get ready to play, or to clean a club from the previous shot, or some other task which doesn't need to be done while actually making a shot.  The people who do those things when they are supposed to be playing are the ones who give all riders a bad rep.  Unfortunately, I've watched walkers park their trolleys and screw around just as badly, so it sure isn't all at the feet of cart golfers.

In an ideal world, yes that is probably true. But you always have the exceptions, such as your "if" mentioning the second one being in the first one's way. Or when you get out there and hit where you didn't mean to and have to go get a different club. Especially on cart-path only courses, but at any time there are things that can come up to make cart players slower that walkers on their own don't deal with. Not as a rule, but at times.

I don't think cart players are hurting pace of play or killing the game, I ride much more often than I walk myself. I just don't think you can unequivocally state that cart players are faster than walkers.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Lash

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

And the people in the carts can do the same.  It's called knowing how to properly use a cart.  Proper cart play doesn't involve one guy sitting as waiting for the other guy before moving on to his ball.  You drop one off at his ball, then the other drives on to his.  By this time the first guy has played, then the second one plays and picks up his buddy as they drive to the green.  If their balls happen to be in line so they can't do the drop off, the second one to play can still estimate his shot (or maybe even walk up and get the distance while is buddy is getting ready) and pull a couple of clubs to be more ready when it is his turn.

I play with a lot of different guys, and we never just sit around waiting like that unless it's because the course is busy, slow, and there is no place to go anyway.  Most of the time when the cart stops, both of us get out, one to play and the other to get ready to play, or to clean a club from the previous shot, or some other task which doesn't need to be done while actually making a shot.  The people who do those things when they are supposed to be playing are the ones who give all riders a bad rep.  Unfortunately, I've watched walkers park their trolleys and screw around just as badly, so it sure isn't all at the feet of cart golfers.

In an ideal world, yes that is probably true. But you always have the exceptions, such as your "if" mentioning the second one being in the first one's way. Or when you get out there and hit where you didn't mean to and have to go get a different club. Especially on cart-path only courses, but at any time there are things that can come up to make cart players slower that walkers on their own don't deal with. Not as a rule, but at times.

I don't think cart players are hurting pace of play or killing the game, I ride much more often than I walk myself. I just don't think you can unequivocally state that cart players are faster than walkers.

The same applies to walkers though too.  If their balls lie in line with the green, they can't advance any farther than the cart guys until the first one has played.  The debate also rarely focuses on the fact that many times the riders balls will be in reasonable proximity to each other so that you park the cart halfway between and each player walks a few yards to his ball, plays, then returns and is ready to move on.  We find this to be true just about as often as when the balls or in the rough on opposite sides of the fairway, so that is again a case where the riders can be done and ready to move on before the walkers are halfway to their balls.

There are so many scenarios which can be pointed to both ways that these arguments usually devolve into perceptional issues.  A player gets a preconceived notion from one bad experience, then every time thereafter he only notices when a similar situation is encountered, and never sees that the gate swings both ways. I worked in the starter shack long enough to know that there is very, very little that can be stereotyped for slow play except that it always involves players who aren't ready to get with the program when it's their turn to play.  It really doesn't matter whether they are old or young, beginners or experienced, riding or walking, male or female.  They just fiddle around too much or they aren't where they are supposed to be when they should be hitting the ball.

[Lash]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

The same applies to walkers though too.  If their balls lie in line with the green, they can't advance any farther than the cart guys until the first one has played.  The debate also rarely focuses on the fact that many times the riders balls will be in reasonable proximity to each other so that you park the cart halfway between and each player walks a few yards to his ball, plays, then returns and is ready to move on.  We find this to be true just about as often as when the balls or in the rough on opposite sides of the fairway, so that is again a case where the riders can be done and ready to move on before the walkers are halfway to their balls.

There are so many scenarios which can be pointed to both ways that these arguments usually devolve into perceptional issues.  A player gets a preconceived notion from one bad experience, then every time thereafter he only notices when a similar situation is encountered, and never sees that the gate swings both ways. I worked in the starter shack long enough to know that there is very, very little that can be stereotyped for slow play except that it always involves players who aren't ready to get with the program when it's their turn to play.  It really doesn't matter whether they are old or young, beginners or experienced, riding or walking, male or female.  They just fiddle around too much or they aren't where they are supposed to be when they should be hitting the ball.

I don't disagree with any of that, but that's kind of my point. There are a lot of variables, and you just can't state that riding in a cart is faster than walking simply because a cart's speed is faster than a walker's speed. Sharing a cart with someone introduces so many other possibilities that it is easily ready for every player to play ready golf and still have walkers reach the green first.

[Kletus]

I think we have reached the point where all we are doing is arguing the semantics of specific situations instead of addressing the OP's question.

Simply put.   In many situations it will be faster to ride.  In many situations walking will be at minimum.. just as fast, and in some situations actually a little faster.   I personally think that all things being equal... riding will be faster more of the time than walking.

However,

In real world applications.... very seldom will there be enough of a difference that it will cause either party in a mixed group to be uncomfortable or upset.   To the OP.... go out and walk.  Try 9 holes and see how you do.  You will either love it or hate it and you can decide from there how you want to proceed.  If you play ready golf... and are ready when it's your turn.. you should have no problem keeping up unless the course is just poorly designed for walkers.  I personally tend to walk during the cooler months for the exercise and to stay loose.  I tend to ride when it gets hot.. because walking then just simply isn't fun for me and my health doesn't allow me to take the chance of getting too hot.

[Fourputt]

All else being equal, a cart is always faster simply because it moves at a higher speed.  The trouble is, all else is rarely equal.

[MS256]

Originally Posted by Lash

There are a lot of variables, and you just can't state that riding in a cart is faster than walking simply because a cart's speed is faster than a walker's speed.

I can, and have, several times. Any "variables" have nothing to do with whether playing in a cart is faster or not. A person walking can take forever to play and so can a person in a cart. Neither of those has anything to do with which is the faster method of play.

All "variables" aside it's no contest.