Playing Irons Only

[Jeremie Boop]

It may be the kind of hole where you CAN bomb a drive and give yourself a chance to get home in two, but they make it very high risk/reward. Some par 5s are just 3 shot par 5s.

Most people I see who lay up behind water end up duffing into the water on their next shout about 25-30% of the time at least. In order to force a lay up with an iron the water must require 50+ yards of carry. That's pretty daunting from anywhere if you are a weekend warrior. There is one hole on the course I where am in league that has a par 4 that's 397 that has a pond that cuts through the hole:

Most everyone in the league lays up to the 150 marker just short of the water and I see people duff it into the water fairly often. I take the blue line approach here with driver. If I push it it's playable on the other side of those trees, if I hit it straight it's in good position, if I hit my normal draw it's good and if I hit a hook it's short of the water anyway *which only happened 1 time this year*. Given that most people hit a slice I never understood why so many people lay up behind the water when their natural ball flight will take them away from the danger and leave them a shorter shot. I have not once put it in the water on this hole hitting driver. If you were to hit iron from the tee you'd have a long second shot over the water, a short shot to lay up behind the water, or play to the right of the water like I do from the tee. Problem is you are still going to play over the water to the right on your second shot even if you lay up to the right side. The only way I know to keep clear of the water is to hit driver here.

[tmac20]

You hit 4 iron, then PW on 370 yard par 4's? How far do you hit a 4iron? PW?

Pretty much exactly what slice said. I hit my 4 iron 220-225 max(with about 10-15 yards of roll on the fairway), and my pitching wedge 145-150 max. If there is just a slight breeze and I'm into the wind, I'd have to hit 4 iron 9 iron. But 370 is just my transition number. If the hole plays 371 on the card I'd hit a hybrid or 3-wood off the tee.

[Slice of Life]

Most people I see who lay up behind water end up duffing into the water on their next shout about 25-30% of the time at least. In order to force a lay up with an iron the water must require 50+ yards of carry. That's pretty daunting from anywhere if you are a weekend warrior. There is one hole on the course I where am in league that has a par 4 that's 397 that has a pond that cuts through the hole:

Most everyone in the league lays up to the 150 marker just short of the water and I see people duff it into the water fairly often. I take the blue line approach here with driver. If I push it it's playable on the other side of those trees, if I hit it straight it's in good position, if I hit my normal draw it's good and if I hit a hook it's short of the water anyway *which only happened 1 time this year*. Given that most people hit a slice I never understood why so many people lay up behind the water when their natural ball flight will take them away from the danger and leave them a shorter shot. I have not once put it in the water on this hole hitting driver.

This is more like what I'm talking about. A short Par 5, but it forces most people to get there in 3. If you're a really long hitter, it's an easy Par 5 to get home in 2. I've shown two "optimal" routes to the green. I've done both of them...but 99% of the time, I choose the 3 shotter. Hybrid, 8-iron, 52 degree.

[Jeremie Boop]

This is more like what I'm talking about. A short Par 5, but it forces most people to get there in 3. If you're a really long hitter, it's an easy Par 5 to get home in 2. I've shown two "optimal" routes to the green. I've done both of them...but 99% of the time, I choose the 3 shotter. Hybrid, 8-iron, 52 degree.

Yeah, that is basically a "force carry" of about 50 yards to clear the junk in the middle that I was talking about. That's not what I would call an iron tee shot though for most people though. For that to be a forced iron lay up that water would have to start about 30 yards back and end where it does now.

[Slice of Life]

Yeah, that is basically a "force carry" of about 50 yards to clear the junk in the middle that I was talking about. That's not what I would call an iron tee shot though for most people though. For that to be a forced iron lay up that water would have to start about 30 yards back and end where it does now.

With water left, and THICK trees right, you're better off hitting an iron. The 3 shot line is what *I* do, because I can generally keep my hybrid out of trouble. But you could also go 5 iron, 5 iron, pitching wedge.

[Jeremie Boop]

With water left, and THICK trees right, you're better off hitting an iron. The 3 shot line is what *I* do, because I can generally keep my hybrid out of trouble. But you could also go 5 iron, 5 iron, pitching wedge.

I understand what you are saying, but basing on what people generally accept as normal distances of weekend/average golfers that's still a 5w or 3w normally to the lay up area which is why I was saying it's not really a forced iron tee shot. I would probably hit 4i or hybrid on that hole myself because with my normal push draw those trees on the right are fairly close and probably would worry me.

[MyrtleBeachGolf]

Pretty much exactly what slice said. I hit my 4 iron 220-225 max(with about 10-15 yards of roll on the fairway), and my pitching wedge 145-150 max. If there is just a slight breeze and I'm into the wind, I'd have to hit 4 iron 9 iron. But 370 is just my transition number. If the hole plays 371 on the card I'd hit a hybrid or 3-wood off the tee. :-P

There are some seriously big hitters in these forums. I wish I had that kind of length. Fwiw, my swing speed is 95-99mph. You guys must be generating 120mph of club head speed.

[Dave2512]

Best to read between the lines with the big hitting claims. The internet translation is sometimes they hit it that far but it's far from their average. It's all in good fun and people like to talk about their best stuff on forums be it golf or whatever. It only gets silly when they try to support it by claiming their bad putting and horrendous play near the green negates all these longer than PGA average bombs.

[Slice of Life]

There are some seriously big hitters in these forums. I wish I had that kind of length. Fwiw, my swing speed is 95-99mph. You guys must be generating 120mph of club head speed.

If that chart is true, I swing about 110 mph. But I think there are too many other variables...like iron loft and whatnot.

[k-troop]

There are some seriously big hitters in these forums. I wish I had that kind of length.

Fwiw, my swing speed is 95-99mph.

You guys must be generating 120mph of club head speed.

Not sure the origin of this chart, but the average driver SS on Tour is around 114-115.  I watch a lot of golf on TV, and I almost never see a tour pro hit a 4-iron into a 200-yard par-3 (unless it's severely into the wind).  That's more like a typical 6-iron it seems.  My driver SS is probably between 110 and 115 (haven't checked it ever AFAIK, but I carry my D about 270 and 3W about 250) and I'll hit a 5-iron into a 200-yard par-3 under neutral conditions.

And I play AP2s:  stronger lofts than the blades of the 70s for sure, but they're not a jacked-up RBZ or anything.

[Meltdwhiskey]

These numbers sound crazy to me.  220+ yard 4-irons?  Isn't that what pros hit?  Isn't that quite a distance for a 20+ capper? I think of 4i as my 185/190 club - if I catch it good.

[tmac20]

There are some seriously big hitters in these forums. I wish I had that kind of length.

Fwiw, my swing speed is 95-99mph.

You guys must be generating 120mph of club head speed.

That chart does not seem accurate at all. When I'm 145-150 yards out, I hit PW, and I hit it pin high. I play standard lofts on my Mizuno MP-64's. Maybe I deloft my short irons at impact more than the average golfer. Last time I checked, my swing speed was 111mph.

[Meltdwhiskey]

111 with which club?  Due to its length, I'd think a driver goes faster than a 7i.  Is that true?

[k-troop]

111 with which club?  Due to its length, I'd think a driver goes faster than a 7i.  Is that true?

SS measurements are always off of the driver.

[Dave2512]

Last time I checked Tiger Woods hits a 9i about 140 average and I don't think the PGA tour average for PW was more than 128ish. Whenever you see something that exceeds the averages on TV it's always due to extreme conditions, elevated tees, tail wind, St. Andrews rollout etc.

[Meltdwhiskey]

A little quick and dirty interwebs research yields the info below for total distance:

According the Leaderboard website, PGA Tour players' average

4-iron shots travel 210 to 220 yards (including the roll). They can hit

5-iron shots 195 to 205 yards;

6-iron shots 180 to 190 yards;

7-iron shots 165 to 180 yards;

8-iron shots 150 to 170 yards; and

9-iron shots 140 to 155 yards. The average distance for a

pitching wedge is 130 to 135 yards; for a

sand wedge 115 to 120 yards; and for

lob wedges 75 to 95 yards

[k-troop]

Last time I checked Tiger Woods hits a 9i about 140 average and I don't think the PGA tour average for PW was more than 128ish. Whenever you see something that exceeds the averages on TV it's always due to extreme conditions, elevated tees, tail wind, St. Andrews rollout etc.

From Tiger's website, his average driver SS is 125 (and that seems consistent with swingvision stats they post for him during tournament broadcasts).  Tiger also plays a 50-degree PW, rather than the 45* PW some guys (I'm looking at you, Phil) play.  Finally, almost no pro hits a PW at full swing--80% at best.

Judging iron distance is better done with 2i-8i.

[Meltdwhiskey]

I won't try to dispute the Tiger website, but it does seem to me when they show those stats that 125 is the best of the best. Bubba type stuff.  It seems I saw a decent amount of 115's in the last tourney I watched.