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RandallT

My Swing (RandallT)

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1 hour ago, Club Rat said:

Really good Randy, looking into my crystal ball "I see your handicap dropping" just in time to qualify for 2017 NewPort Cup....   :-)

Ha. Next year will be the year to get a handicap again! I'll have to think about a target goal. My main goal will be to just play enough to get on the board with an official index. Hopefully, somewhere under bogey golf to start. Then see where I start to settle in as I get familiar with scoring again. I'm hoping that's in the 15 ballpark (dare I say, perhaps better?).

As for the swings above, I just reviewed them. I'll give myself a grade on specific things (others please chime in if you disagree):

1. Not standing up: B-.  Compared to what I have done, I think it's better. head still drifting back and up a bit. As my shoulder turn stops, I still continue with some sloppy motions, it appears to me. I drift upwards with my body and hands/arms continue their turn.

2. Hand depth: D. I don't think I changed much with that, although I was practicing it since getting feedback from my instructor. Hard to tell with the heavy clothes, but my hands should be a few more inches outward (I think).

3. Flat wrist at top: C. This has been difficult for me to get when I'm over a ball. If you look in slow motion at the last moments before the top of the BS, it appears I cup my wrists a bit.

4. Steepness: B-. Better than over the summer. These swings I wasn't even thinking about the elements that have promoted shallowing the club, so I'm pleased I'm not as steep as before. I give the B- because I was not using the feel of moving my hands inward to the ball at the top. Totally forgot, and I think I could have laid the club off much better.

I might submit these to my instructor, only because colder weather is coming in, and I might not get much range time for the next couple weeks. If not, I know I've got plenty to work on from the previous two lessons. My hunch is that he will simply say: more reps, keep going.

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My priority piece is backswing. Here's my current video. I keep revving my wrist the wrong way at the top- on the actual swing at the end. I'm always amazed that just doing a backswing with no intent to hit a ball is very different from that very same backswing when you have knowledge that you will actually hit a ball.

I'd appreciate feedback on "hand depth." Here's the target (from my instructor):

Screen Shot 2016-12-08 at 1.15.22 PM.png

Here are the series of A4's that I did, with the final one being a "real" swing (hitting a ball). I'm trying to get my hands above and left of my right shoulder. With flat wrist.

Screen Shot 2016-12-08 at 1.15.56 PM.pngScreen Shot 2016-12-08 at 1.16.10 PM.pngScreen Shot 2016-12-08 at 1.16.26 PM.pngScreen Shot 2016-12-08 at 1.16.42 PM.pngScreen Shot 2016-12-08 at 1.16.59 PM.pngScreen Shot 2016-12-08 at 1.17.25 PM.png

 

Lastly, @iacas posted this video below in a steepness thread:

 

Como has an interesting line in there about medication vs. vitamins. Just like there are some medications that you REALLY only should take with a prescription, there are exercises and drills you should only do if your instructor has told you to do that.

Likewise, most experts say vitamins probably don't hurt you, and there are some exercises you can do that probably will never hurt- one of which is swinging with the lead arm only to get the sensation of the club path that will result in the least manipulation of the forearm to square the club. I've tried that below:

I've noticed  that the club doesn't "tip" over the top of my hand plane when I do this correctly. At A6, the club consistently is to the left of my hands in the DTL view. That just feels right? Why when I add my trail arm do I push the club in front of my hands at A6? It's like my trail arm wants to get the club steeper.

 

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Sorry so quick…

  • The hand depth is fine.
  • The one-arm drill is great.
  • You're doing a better job than you want to give yourself credit for on the transition piece.
  • Here's where it goes wrong (just a little - way better than before):

Analyzr Image Export.jpg

On the left you'll see you're in a good spot. Perhaps even a tad too shallow. But from there your hands go left, which kicks the club out and steepens it. Go through your real swing 38 seconds into the video above and you'll see the shaft go from shallowing to steepening right around there. It's a little of what @cartierbresson was doing (but not as much).

It's going to be weird but you almost have to keep feeling that the hands go OUT more rather than going LEFT more. It's weird because you may shank some, but that's the way to keep the clubhead from needing to tip out. The dots (BoC) will line up a bit more. It doesn't take a lot, but it'll feel like a lot.

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12 minutes ago, RandallT said:

I'm always amazed that just doing a backswing with no intent to hit a ball is very different from that very same backswing when you have knowledge that you will actually hit a ball.

Ugh, I know.  I practice my backswing pieces in front of a mirror literally every night, and yet I feel like I get to the range and it feels completely different.  I've even considered adopting a Matsuyama-type "pause" at the top to help this, but I'm not going there yet.  For now, I have to just think that even if it's not to the same extent in a real swing, I'm still helping change the picture (I am, just slowly).

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Thanks @iacas. I think this is our last viable day for the range, so I went ahead and submitted both of those for Stephan to get his take on things as well. I doubt I'll get out again until 2017. We shall see. Lots of mirror work ahead.

33 minutes ago, Hardspoon said:

I've even considered adopting a Matsuyama-type "pause" at the top

Funny, but I was doing this a bit today, and it felt somewhat natural. I've never thought before that it felt good, because I felt I lost all of my power (likely because my form was so far off). I was doing the pause as an exercise today, of course, but I was surprised how it kept my form so much better and that I still got decent power. 

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28 minutes ago, Hardspoon said:

Ugh, I know.  I practice my backswing pieces in front of a mirror literally every night, and yet I feel like I get to the range and it feels completely different.  I've even considered adopting a Matsuyama-type "pause" at the top to help this, but I'm not going there yet.  For now, I have to just think that even if it's not to the same extent in a real swing, I'm still helping change the picture (I am, just slowly).

I think it is great to realize how intent can actually affect positions. Lot of slow deliberate position practice is also to work 'intent' of the swing and this can be huge. Part of what I have also started to do is simply 'place' the club on the top of BS, instead of 'winding up' for a hit. Of course it takes a lot of mindfulness to do so when playing which I fail at as well as anybody. But the realization can be qualified as serious growth...:-D     

Just now, RandallT said:

Funny, but I was doing this a bit today, and it felt somewhat natural. I've never thought before that it felt good, because I felt I lost all of my power (likely because my form was so far off). I was doing the pause as an exercise today, of course, but I was surprised how it kept my form so much better and that I still got decent power. 

 

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Randy, you are really close to your objective.

Just out of curiosity, without a club in your hand, first hold your right arm and hand in your top position.
Then place your left hand in position as if you have a club.
Then look in the mirror and see if you are indeed in the position your striving to achieve.

Many refer to it as carrying a tray above you shoulder. Your photos look like the right hand position is tilted inward.
I myself have difficulty getting my right wrist flexed properly.

Not sure if this causes the "feeling that the hands go OUT" which you indicate.

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17 minutes ago, RandallT said:

Funny, but I was doing this a bit today, and it felt somewhat natural. I've never thought before that it felt good, because I felt I lost all of my power (likely because my form was so far off). I was doing the pause as an exercise today, of course, but I was surprised how it kept my form so much better and that I still got decent power. 

Funny. I thought it might also help my ongoing issue of cutting the backswing short. I've also played with it in practice sessions, but no more than that.

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On 12/8/2016 at 1:45 PM, iacas said:

But from there your hands go left, which kicks the club out and steepens it.

I've been doing mirror work-  thinking about hand path (BoC path), comparing my tendencies against what I think you are saying, and really trying to pay attention to how the club reacts to different movements.

I'm wondering if anyone has brought up the feel of a tennis left handed back-hand down the line. I guess that's sort of the hitting to right field feel.

I definitely feel that my tendency is to want to get my hands left quickly. I have an urge to get my hands going down the target line, if that makes any sense.

To fix this, I feel like I need to trust the natural arc of the hands (as viewed from above) to let them travel around my body (letting them travel more outward from my body)- and to stop driving the hands in a forward direction. That seems to help here in the foyer at slow enough speeds that I can sorta see what's going on.

 

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3 minutes ago, RandallT said:

I'm wondering if anyone has brought up the feel of a tennis left handed back-hand down the line.

Yes it is very similar.

4 minutes ago, RandallT said:

I guess that's sort of the hitting to right field feel.

In a sense it would before impact, at impact it would be center field.

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2 hours ago, Club Rat said:

Yes it is very similar.

Thanks. Thinking out loud (is this out loud?), this is a representation of how it kinda feels:

Screen Shot 2016-12-09 at 7.22.29 PM.png

RED: My natural tendency is to want to drive my hands ahead at the target, and perhaps I change the direction of the arc of my hands to achieve what I think needs to be done. My mental image is almost like a straight back, straight through putt, which intellectually I know is wrong, but there you go. 

GREEN: If I allow my hands and arms to be a bit more relaxed and sling them around (less muscular force toward the targe), I feel like the butt of the club does travel more out away from my body (perhaps in more of an arc?), and that keeps the club from steepening at those last moments. More of a rotational feel. Swinging from inside a barrel.

I could be full of crap, but that's the feel I'm getting as I compare the two, but this is fairly slow speed in my foyer. 

At any rate, I'm still focused on what my Evolvr instructor has for me (get the A4 correct), and I'm expecting a new video back early next week based on a couple videos above in this thread, and we'll see where I'm heading next.  Bit by bit.

Off to dinner. Have a nice night, all.

 

 

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It would be great to have access to this facility .....

P1010034.JPG

Last night I experimented with creating a video using a small LED clip-on light placed on the back of my golf glove.
My intent was trying to capture the complete "path of the light" by using slow-Mo and time lapse.
I did not obtain the effect/result I was after.
I'll try editing the video in a software program and see if I obtain better results. 
 

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On 12/9/2016 at 7:31 PM, RandallT said:

At any rate, I'm still focused on what my Evolvr instructor has for me (get the A4 correct), and I'm expecting a new video back early next week based on a couple videos above in this thread, and we'll see where I'm heading next.  Bit by bit.

Got the analysis back, and my A4 was getting quite a bit off track- due to my own misunderstanding, not anything else. I see I was getting too shallow too early, and I had allowed myself to think I knew what I was doing, rather than going back to check what my specific instructions were with A3 to A4

I am on the left, and my goal needs to be more on the right. I do ok at A3 (could always be better), but go astray from there.

Screen Shot 2016-12-12 at 9.35.24 AM.pngScreen Shot 2016-12-12 at 9.33.48 AM.png

Bottom line: I need to stay focused on A3 to A4 before I really move on to doing the downswing stuff. 

I will say that my eyes were really opened by the left hand only downswings, and I think that exercise will help me get the backswing better.  I am understanding now the cause and effect of hand path in the downswing, which can only be valuable later on.

I think the exercise also helps me understand why staying steeper in my backswing longer can help me in the downswing. By getting so shallow early, I was making it more likely the toe would tip steeper in the downswing (from what I'm gathering).

Probably no range work for a while, but perhaps I can sneak out on a decent day sporadically. Indoor mirror work for a while. Just have to stay disciplined. 

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Quick update: I had a really good range session last week (without video). I decided to go straight from a few drills to just hitting balls. No real focus other than to swing freely and try to find the ball and make solid contact. It has been a while since I did lots of full-speed swings (my practice tends to be about changing the picture slow speed), so I was hoping to feel some progress after finding a swing again. The good news is that I was hitting draw after draw after draw, and the power felt somewhat effortless. Typically, I'm a fade/slice guy. My hope was that the picture was changing, and that the next warm day I'd get a good video submitted.

Today was that video day. Ooops. I have to say it was a bit of regression. I didn't do many full swings, but the form in slow speed was poor. Cupped left wrist at the top. Cupping through the downswing. Club still coming down outside my hands at A6, as though I'm yanking down on the club, throwing it over the top. I'm still standing up a bit and flattening the shoulders as I start my downswing. Basically, lots of elements there that I've been working on.

I'll not post to youtube, but I think I'll go ahead and submit to instructor. But as another thread says, 3 forward/2 back. Overall, I'm more aware of what needs to be done. Just can't seem to change anything.

What's odd is that it all feels so different, and even feels much more repeatable/consistent. The ballstriking last week might have even been the best I've ever had- so maybe there are changes going on. I'll stay hopeful that the last range session (where I felt I struck the ball well) was just a hint of good things to come.

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7 minutes ago, RandallT said:

Cupped left wrist at the top. Cupping through the downswing.

Think about what is causing the wrist to cup at the top? Is it because you are not set and starting your downswing?
Compare the videos, view the position at top for any noticeable difference.

Keep up the good work. Try not to focus on what is wrong, focus on doing the proper things.

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1 minute ago, Club Rat said:

Think about what is causing the wrist to cup at the top? Is it because you are not set and starting your downswing?
Compare the videos, view the position at top for any noticeable difference.

Keep up the good work. Try not to focus on what is wrong, focus on doing the proper things.

Yah I'm thinking I need a new level of zen awareness of what's going on with my priority piece. I've done a notebook drill Stephan gave me, but I've slacked of recently on that. Time to pull that one out again, because it gives instant feedback and awareness of the cupping that I do. Not sure the root cause of why I want that wrist to be non-flat. Just feels better cupped for some reason. Almost like it's hard-wired. Argh.

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Buy a… I'm trying to think of the name…

https://www.facebook.com/TorcSwingtrainer/

http://www.torcgolf.com

There are threads here on this.

I like it just under the grip. It doesn't affect swingweight much, and you can "feel" where the shaft is better.

Hmmm, I wonder if they're still around.

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Note: This thread is 739 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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