235 Out on This Par Five - What's the Play?

[FooFader]

a very interesting read and definitely some useful stuff to take away. However i will say that sitting here reading this i wold like to be able to say that i would take the play of laying up for a chip but i know all too well that out on the course i may well 'go for it'. I wonder how many of you are the same?

[rehmwa]

Found the summary post.  Lots of math.  But in general, 'take the shot that gets you the closest while avoiding risks (stuff that will cost you the par) as much as possible'

I like it.  I didn't examine the pics enough to realize just how severe the misses were.  Nice looking course.

I haven't seen the 'other' answer from the mechanical vs feel crowd though - "I don't know until I walk up to that shot and then I let my 107 years of experience tell me which club to pull out of the bag and I FEEL the shot I need without thinking about it"

I like that one.

I'd still go for it.  Just like yesterday on one par 5 with the marsh wrapped around the near right side of the green.  A bit blind, but hit left of green and fade it in is just the shot.

Great shot, nailed it to likely just the right distance even.  another partial 3w, I'm hitting that shot all day...how hard can it be?

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though I just pushed it 'slightly',  not much, should be fine, I might have even carried the marsh and will have a close chip/pitch

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I really hope I didn't kill any ducks - I wouldn't know, it's a really big and deep marsh and the ball was only worth about 66 cents....wet ball, now hitting 4 and still not putting......

(net was a drop, LW to the hole and lucky one putt - for bogie and lucky it wasn't double.  When the par wasn't terribly bad had I just stayed short of the wet stuff....)  I doubt the lesson sinks in though

[njbob]

Hit the 3 wood  - slightly open stance, aim at the left edge of the green; a slight fade into the wind will fly less than the usual 245 yds, maybe 225-230, not roll much at all with higher ball flight,  - sounds like a perfect set up for the shot of the day - go for it. With no wind, then 5 wood/hybrid, straight set up, aim for center of green.

[nick1998bunker]

S[quote name="njbob" url="/t/69652/235-out-on-this-par-five-whats-the-play/180#post_892101"]Hit the 3 wood  - slightly open stance, aim at the left edge of the green; a slight fade into the wind will fly less than the usual 245 yds, maybe 225-230, not roll much at all with higher ball flight,  - sounds like a perfect set up for the shot of the day - go for it. With no wind, then 5 wood/hybrid, straight set up, aim for center of green.  [/quote] except too much club brings long into play wich is way worse than short so . And it's minimal wind which has about 5 years more and you are middle of green or closer depending of how far you cut it... And you will only go short if you mishit it really

[MS256]

S

except too much club brings long into play wich is way worse than short so . And it's minimal wind which has about 5 years more and you are middle of green or closer depending of how far you cut it... And you will only go short if you mishit it really

Not for me. If I miss on a cut it's short and right...Every time.

If I miss on a draw it can be anything from a hook to a straight push to the right.

[nick1998bunker]

Not for me. If I miss on a cut it's short and right...Every time. If I miss on a draw it can be anything from a hook to a straight push to the right.

But short and right is better that long and if you don't messup the 3 wood thats were you'll be... It's still better than a layup but its worse than a bunker shot

[MS256]

But short and right is better that long and if you don't messup the 3 wood thats were you'll be... It's still better than a layup but its worse than a bunker shot

That's why I'm hitting the 3W. At best I'm on the green. At worst I'm somewhere short and right. Chances of going long are next to none with a cut.

Of course my entire opinion of what I would do is based on what I am seeing in pictures. If I was actually there I might very well change my mind. If I think anywhere around that green is truly dead where 3 more strokes are more likely than not I'm laying up.

[nick1998bunker]

I[quote name="MS256" url="/t/69652/235-out-on-this-par-five-whats-the-play/180#post_892205"]That's why I'm hitting the 3W. At best I'm on the green. At worst I'm somewhere short and right. Chances of going long are next to none with a cut. Of course my entire opinion of what I would do is based on what I am seeing in pictures. If I was actually there I might very well change my mind. If I think anywhere around that green is truly dead where 3 more strokes are more likely than not I'm laying up. [/quote] I mean if you don't mess up the 3 wood then your long, and unless your in the woods or maybe the left bunker than maybe you could get a bogey but the rest is a par max and if you lay up its a par maybe

[njbob]

With a slight fade into the wind and a fairly high ball flight, I don't see going long as a problem - and I may not get another chance at an eagle this good for a while - and I still think I could scramble for a par from within 25-30 yards if I mishit the 3W just as easily as

from 100 yards out with a layup - the larger reward outweighs the smaller risks - Maybe that's why I'm an 11 handicap - I"ll play for the shot - Go For It ! (I may not remember my scores, but I can remember my eagles!)

[nick1998bunker]

Th[quote name="njbob" url="/t/69652/235-out-on-this-par-five-whats-the-play/180#post_892285"]With a slight fade into the wind and a fairly high ball flight, I don't see going long as a problem - and I may not get another chance at an eagle this good for a while - and I still think I could scramble for a par from within 25-30 yards if I mishit the 3W just as easily as from 100 yards out with a layup - the larger reward outweighs the smaller risks - Maybe that's why I'm an 11 handicap - I"ll play for the shot - Go For It ! (I may not remember my scores, but I can remember my eagles!) [/quote]That's the spirit!

[mchepp]

P.S. That one golfer laid up on a par three every day in a U.S. Open or something and won, having made four pars or something. Often said to be Ben Hogan but I'm pretty sure it was someone else. And there are plenty of par threes - the eighth at Oakmont - where just short is a far, far better place to be than anywhere else but on the green. You're playing that hole for a 3.25 average score, and if you can, you'll pick up strokes all the time.

Billy Casper, at Winged Foot I think. It is in his book, but I might have remembered it wrong.

He tells a story that the US Open played at Winged Foot was the first one he played with Jack Nicklaus in the practice round. He said Jack hit a beautiful long iron onto the green and he laid up. Ironically he beat Jack for the week in the tournament on that hole with his lay up strategy. (sorry for the digression)

[nick1998bunker]

Sometimes you sound like somebody who hasn't played much golf before.  I can see a couple spots where you could be in serious danger of not making par with that pin location and that green.

if you miss the green, other than in the woods, than you have 3 shots to try and get it in the hole. If you layup and miss it then the pressure is on to get up and down.

[boogielicious]

Cats out of the bag

I'm allergic to cats.

Interesting concept on "shot value".  We have a long par 3 at my league course.  I am required to play the tips because of the flight I am in, which I hate.  The par 3 can vary from 190 to 210 depending on flag placement and it is 180 to reach the green with only 5 yards of rough short.  There is a marsh short (170 - 175 to carry depending on the tee), woods short and right, a trap right (190-200), long grass long right (200) and behind the whole (215), a hill with rough left long and marsh left (190 - 205).  Basically, the green is surrounded by crap and the hole is designed to eat balls.   It seems the only shot for me is to aim for the left middle of the green.  If I go left, I am in rough but can pitch out.  If I lose a ball, there is a drop area near the green.  I have pared the hole once in 9 tries this year.

My 190 club is my 3H.  My 180 is my 4 iron.  If there is wind in our face, 3W may reach the green.  My driver is ~220 carry.  What is the best shot value?  I can see if there was fairway short, the best play could be my 4 iron, but if there is any wind, it may not reach.

[nick1998bunker]

The be[quote name="boogielicious" url="/t/69652/235-out-on-this-par-five-whats-the-play/210#post_892344"]I'm allergic to cats. Interesting concept on "shot value".  We have a long par 3 at my league course.  I am required to play the tips because of the flight I am in, which I hate.  The par 3 can vary from 190 to 210 depending on flag placement and it is 180 to reach the green with only 5 yards of rough short.  There is a marsh short (170 - 175 to carry depending on the tee), woods short and right, a trap right (190-200), long grass long right (200) and behind the whole (215), a hill with rough left long and marsh left (190 - 205).  Basically, the green is surrounded by crap and the hole is designed to eat balls.   It seems the only shot for me is to aim for the left middle of the green.  If I go left, I am in rough but can pitch out.  If I lose a ball, there is a drop area near the green.  I have pared the hole once in 9 tries this year.   My 190 club is my 3H.  My 180 is my 4 iron.  If there is wind in our face, 3W may reach the green.  My driver is ~220 carry.  What is the best shot value?  I can see if there was fairway short, the best play could be my 4 iron, but if there is any wind, it may not reach. [/quote]st club for your situation is to take whatever club you can comfortably carry the hazard(not 4 iron). If you play to the middle of the green you can 2 putt and most likely pick strokes up on the feild

[iacas]

With a slight fade into the wind and a fairly high ball flight, I don't see going long as a problem - and I may not get another chance at an eagle this good for a while - and I still think I could scramble for a par from within 25-30 yards if I mishit the 3W just as easily as from 100 yards out with a layup - the larger reward outweighs the smaller risks - Maybe that's why I'm an 11 handicap - I"ll play for the shot - Go For It ! (I may not remember my scores, but I can remember my eagles!)

You left out the third - and best IMO - option: "laying up" but not at 100 yards.

if you miss the green, other than in the woods, than you have 3 shots to try and get it in the hole. If you layup and miss it then the pressure is on to get up and down.

Nick, please at least demonstrate that you read my lengthy post with all of the reasons before you say things like this.

I proposed "laying up" to about 20 yards short of the green. You've still got three shots to use. Not many people are likely to miss the green from 20 yards short - more are likely to miss the green with their third if they go for the green and wind up in a bunker, left, or long.

[nick1998bunker]

You left out the third - and best IMO - option: "laying up" but not at 100 yards. Nick, please at least demonstrate that you read my lengthy post with all of the reasons before you say things like this. I proposed "laying up" to about 20 yards short of the green. You've still got three shots to use. Not many people are likely to miss the green from 20 yards short - more are likely to miss the green with their third if they go for the green and wind up in a bunker, left, or long.

You just took away the reward though.

[14ledo81]

You just took away the reward though.

What reward?? The minute chance you will have a makeable eagle putt??  Seems to me it would be ensuring a better chance at the smaller reward (birdie).

[iacas]

You just took away the reward though.

I'm going to make the best possible score on average. That's the reward.

You're old enough to read Nick. Please do so…