Tiger's Two-Stroke Penalty at 2013 BMW Championship?

[David in FL]

[RIGHT][/RIGHT][quote name="Golfingdad" url="/t/69970/tigers-two-stroke-penalty-at-2013-bmw-championship/72#post_897997"] Of course!  And now I know what Colin should buy his buddy for Christmas: [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/content/type/61/id/83293/] [/URL] Practice makes perfect!! [/quote] . :dance:

[iacas]

And when yoiu go back and look at things like the moving of the boulder ( or loose impediment) incident, it speaks volumes about his integrity, or lack theroef.

The boulder thing continues to serve as an example of how Tiger KNOWS the rules. I don't particularly think he's completely awesome for that move, but in no way do I think that move was bad. On a scale of -10 to 10, that move rates as a solid 2 for me.

That boulder thing was an example of knowing the Rules and using them to your advantage - completely legally. So we'll have to disagree on that one.

Ragrding the incident the other day, I think he saw the ball move and though "Uh oh....did anyone else see that?....hmmm...hope not."

I don't think that's how it went down, and my proof amounts to the same as yours - your opinion.

[k-troop]

The boulder thing continues to serve as an example of how Tiger KNOWS the rules. I don't particularly think he's completely awesome for that move, but in no way do I think that move was bad. On a scale of -10 to 10, that move rates as a solid 2 for me. That boulder thing was an example of knowing the Rules and using them to your advantage - completely legally. So we'll have to disagree on that one.

Exactly. It's just like when Cink made a groove behind his ball in a waste area at I believe Harbour Town by removing loose impediments. He asked for a ruling and they told him he could remove anything loose. Then he hits a great shot and wins the tournament. Afterwards the rules officials looked at it again and said it was legal. It wasn't the most heroic way to win, but he knew the rules and used them to obtain the best situation he could. Nothing wrong with that at all.

[mp33 man]

The boulder thing continues to serve as an example of how Tiger KNOWS the rules. I don't particularly think he's completely awesome for that move, but in no way do I think that move was bad. On a scale of -10 to 10, that move rates as a solid 2 for me. That boulder thing was an example of knowing the Rules and using them to your advantage - completely legally. So we'll have to disagree on that one. I don't think that's how it went down, and my proof amounts to the same as yours - your opinion.

I have to agree that Tiger prob did not intentionally break the rules but you have to admit that his knowledge of the rules, as pointed out above, does make his actions seem a little fishy.

[Shorty]

For Tiger to have been intentionally cheating he would have to be the worst cheater in the history of cheaters because he didn't move the obstruction.

I know plenty of cheaters and I've seen them in action and they would have certainly moved the pine cone (whether the ball moved or not) if they thought nobody was watching.

You're missing the point.

Nobody is suggesting that he tried to do something hoping noone would notice.

The question is whether

A) he did something unintentionally and then thought he might get away with it or

b) didn't notice he had done something or

c) thought that what he had done eas OK.

I don't think comparing cheats you play with with Tiger is helpful. You seem to be suggesting that he probably didn't cheat becuase you play with guys who are blatant cheats and this wasn't as blatant as what you've witnessed.

[MS256]

You're missing the point.

Nobody is suggesting that he tried to do something hoping noone would notice.

The question is whether

A) he did something unintentionally and then thought he might get away with it or

b) didn't notice he had done something or

c) thought that what he had done eas OK.

I don't think comparing cheats you play with with Tiger is helpful. You seem to be suggesting that he probably didn't cheat becuase you play with guys who are blatant cheats and this wasn't as blatant as what you've witnessed.

It was a joke.

[Keith White]

Tiger tried to move a twig and the ball moved.  i agree that camera nerds are spoiling the game because there is not equal coverage of all players, however, on this occasion the decision was right.  If you want to move stuff from your ball your taking the risk of moving it and thats what he did.  If you dont have rules like this then where does it end.  A small nudge of two inches is ignored but the player has actually got the ball out of a narrow rut in the process, they have to draw the line and the only way is no movedment.  Tiger knew what he was doing and messed up.  Add to that the fact that he tried to imply that it oscillated when it clearly moved as a result of his action, and the poor drop at Auguster, and it's been a poor year for his etiquette.  And thats coming from a Tiger admirer (swing wise)

[Machmood]

After watching the video numerous times I think its pretty obvious TIGER THOUGHT THE BALL MOVED. He went to try and move the stick, the second the ball appears to move he freezes then puts the stick back down. If he didnt think it moved he would have comtinued pulling the stick away. At this point as a pga professional its his responsibility to notify someone he believes his ball moved. At the very least I believe he thought the ball may have moved, which he would still have to notify someone. All this talk about it oscillated, moved, blah blah is irrelevant. IT appears pretty obvious tiger knows something happened and he decided to just play on. He got his penalty and life goes on but it def says something about tiger. I like tiger and think sometimes be gets the shrt end of the stick(no pun intended) but I think this situation says a lot about him. He's hidden In the trees, seemingly no one around or looking and this is what he chose to do. I would imagine If this happened out In the open he would have said something. Edit: funny I was gonna use the pickup Stix analogy and just saw the pic. We all know you test out the other sticks by slowly pulling them away and seeing if anything moves. This is exactly what tiger did. The ball moved so he put back the stick. This seems pretty black and white I'm surprised people are taking the "maybe is oscillated, maybe he didn't notice defense etc.

[BuckeyeNut]

I don't know how tiger couldn't have seen it move.......  it was quite obvious on the video.    We saw it move from a worm-cam view....maybe it looked different right over the top looking down from his perspective?  I don't know, but it makes me question his ethics either way.

[iacas]

After watching the video numerous times I think its pretty obvious TIGER THOUGHT THE BALL MOVED.

Well, that's your opinion.

[Machmood]

Well, that's your opinion.

Very true but I think people are foolish to think otherwise.

[iacas]

Very true but I think people are foolish to think otherwise.

It's okay. People are thinking the same thing about your opinion.

[Machmood]

It's okay. People are thinking the same thing about your opinion. :-D

Fair enough. So your stance is he didn't see the ball move/didn't think he had any reason to alert an official. While removing debris he saw the ball oscillate and he continued tninking i did nothing wrong?

[iacas]

Fair enough. So your stance is he didn't see the ball move/didn't think he had any reason to alert an official. While removing debris he saw the ball oscillate and he continued tninking i did nothing wrong?

My position is that there's no real evidence - purely people's personal opinions - to indicate that he believed differently than he's said.

There's plenty of "reasonable doubt" here, and there's no burden of proof being met.

Those who already didn't like Tiger are likely to feel as you do.

[Meltdwhiskey]

Hate to beat a dead horse - but does anyone have any thoughts on how that ball was to be replaced after it moved?

[iacas]

Hate to beat a dead horse - but does anyone have any thoughts on how that ball was to be replaced after it moved?

Discussed already.

[LSXG8GT]

I think he saw the ball starting to move, immediately stopped, and thought "oh crap." Hoping that no one caught it, and he would just play the ball. How many other players are under so many microscopes as Tiger Woods? I bet people would be surprised at what other Tour Players get away with when the cameras aren't around. I believe they all have great respect for the rules of the game, but when theirs millions of dollars on the line, I bet those rules are bent from time to time.

[phan52]

I think he saw the ball starting to move, immediately stopped, and thought "oh crap." Hoping that no one caught it, and he would just play the ball. How many other players are under so many microscopes as Tiger Woods? I bet people would be surprised at what other Tour Players get away with when the cameras aren't around. I believe they all have great respect for the rules of the game, but when theirs millions of dollars on the line, I bet those rules are bent from time to time.

This.

Is there anybody else on the PGA Tour who has been penalized three times this year but did not call a single one on himself? Just sayin'....