My Swing (billchao)

[billchao]

It might be a confidence issue. I'm the same way. I can hit nice draws on the driving range, but during my rounds, I tend to hit fat pulls when I set up for a draw. I'm so reluctant to hit a push slice that I can't commit to getting my weight forward and delivering a nice outward swing path. Consequently, my go to shot under pressure is a fade. I feel like the open stance allows me to swing more freely aggressively at the ball. You might want to play the next few rounds with a fade as your stock shot. Hopefully it helps.

Thanks for the input. I'm not so sure it's just a confidence issue for me. My problem is that my swing still relies heavily on timing, which is great when I'm playing well, but horrible when I'm not. I'd love to play any shape as my stock shot, but that's where the problem is. I can hit a fade or draw on any given swing and it's impossible to plan properly. I need to find a way to take away one side of the course, as Jack Nicklaus says. [quote name="b101" url="/t/70666/my-swing-billchao/390#post_1134175"] Just a couple of thoughts on these two:  [LIST] [*] Longer term, I'd try to simplify your pitching action and check you aren't taking the club back on the inside. There's no way a flop shot will be more reliable for you long term and it should really only be a 'no other option' shot. Getting a good pitch action down will be a real game changer in terms of confidence though. [*] Shorter term, chip and runs are great. Also try the bump and run from further away (even say 50 yards or so) if you can with a 9 iron. Like you say, your worst chip shots are far better than your worst pitch shots if your contact on the latter is patchy. [/LIST] [/quote]I think my pitching action tends to have too much wrist action, so setting the flip shot gives me more time to get the clubhead where it needs to be, if that makes any sense. I tend to like my ball position pretty far forward on all types of shots (full swings, too) and that might be because of what I do with the hands and wrists.

[billchao]

http://www.gamegolf.com/player/billchao/round/292741

Ok, I need to go back to the range and get some video. Something is seriously messed up with my swing. The only good shots I hit were irons off the tee, which is weird because it's not like I tee the ball up very high with irons. I'm just not getting down on the ball or hitting the ball too early and topping it. Even my trouble shots weren't really hit cleanly, they were mostly thinned.

I really need to replicate that "bunt" drive on 4.

Pitching was better today, though you can't tell by where the ball ended up. I couldn't adjust to the greens being faster, so I kept hitting balls long and they would roll away from the pin.

Green speed posed an issue with my putting, too. I think I got used to playing slower greens and under-reading putts. Today the greens were fast and I kept starting my lines too low.

Put the G30's back in the bag and they didn't make a difference. Actually, that's not true. I'm not quite as comfortable with them at address as I am with the Hogans. They look clunky to me now. I put them back in the bag after last round thinking they might help because I had some contact issues with the blades, but I'm convinced now that I'm just seriously mis-hitting the ball and no clubs exist that can help with that.

Maybe I'll find a way to mix the two sets together, play the cavity-backs in the longer irons and the blades in the shorter irons. I'll just end up with two different 6 irons or something.

[billchao]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln0wAHNiXpI[/video] Finally got a new net. Been working on a new backswing feel and a new downswing feel. This is the first time I've hit any balls with it. Made a slight change in setup by turning my right elbow inward a bit to help keep it from pulling to my side and subsequently, behind my shirt seam. Backswing feels like I'm taking the hands inward and slightly up to A2, then straight up to A4. The up part could use more work, but the left wrist is flatter and I can feel my arms loading differently. Downswing feel is getting the left arm off the chest with some assist from the heel of the right hand pushing. Basically just unloading everything I loaded in the backswing. This is basically a combination of everything I was supposed to be doing in my swing from my lessons last year.

[iacas]

Backswing feels like I'm taking the hands inward and slightly up to A2, then straight up to A4. The up part could use more work, but the left wrist is flatter and I can feel my arms loading differently.

Downswing feel is getting the left arm off the chest with some assist from the heel of the right hand pushing. Basically just unloading everything I loaded in the backswing.

This is basically a combination of everything I was supposed to be doing in my swing from my lessons last year.

Overall it's pretty good, but….

Holy clubface closed, Batman! Bill, look to go more toward this pattern with the clubface, please. Strong grips work if you're going to be a bit shut because they are conducive to holding off the overtaking rates and roll:

[billchao]

Overall it's pretty good, but….

Holy clubface closed, Batman! Bill, look to go more toward this pattern with the clubface, please. Strong grips work if you're going to be a bit shut because they are conducive to holding off the overtaking rates and roll:

Thanks, but I'm not quite sure what you're showing me with the Zach stills. Did my grip get too strong again, or are you saying I should make it stronger?

I didn't realize I had the face so closed at the top, but is that just from exaggerating the bowed wrist? Doesn't the face being like this / at A6ish mean it's square to the plane?

[iacas]

Thanks, but I'm not quite sure what you're showing me with the Zach stills. Did my grip get too strong again, or are you saying I should make it stronger?

I didn't realize I had the face so closed at the top, but is that just from exaggerating the bowed wrist? Doesn't the face being like this / at A6ish mean it's square to the plane?

You're over-doing the palmar flexion stuff a bit, yes. Your grip may be a bit too strong again, yeah.

Square to the plane is over-rated. Most people are closer to toe-up at 6. I don't care much about 2…

[boogielicious]

Finally got a new net. Been working on a new backswing feel and a new downswing feel. This is the first time I've hit any balls with it.

Made a slight change in setup by turning my right elbow inward a bit to help keep it from pulling to my side and subsequently, behind my shirt seam.

Backswing feels like I'm taking the hands inward and slightly up to A2, then straight up to A4. The up part could use more work, but the left wrist is flatter and I can feel my arms loading differently.

Downswing feel is getting the left arm off the chest with some assist from the heel of the right hand pushing. Basically just unloading everything I loaded in the backswing.

This is basically a combination of everything I was supposed to be doing in my swing from my lessons last year.

First of all, I love the pumpkin mat!

I was overdoing the palmar flexion and Stephan corrected that.  He actually had me weaken my grip and it helped a lot.  I was hitting the ball low and it brought the launch angle up without really causing too much fade.

Lastly, what brand it your hitting mat?  I may get another one because I am going to have to move my set up to the driveway.  We are getting trees put in the back where I use to do it.

[billchao]

You're over-doing the palmar flexion stuff a bit, yes. Your grip may be a bit too strong again, yeah. Square to the plane is over-rated. Most people are closer to toe-up at 6. I don't care much about 2…

Got it, thanks :-) [quote name="boogielicious" url="/t/70666/my-swing-billchao/420#post_1138783"]First of all, I love the pumpkin mat!   I was overdoing the palmar flexion and Stephan corrected that.  He actually had me weaken my grip and it helped a lot.  I was hitting the ball low and it brought the launch angle up without really causing too much fade.  Lastly, what brand it your hitting mat?  I may get another one because I am going to have to move my set up to the driveway.  We are getting trees put in the back where I use to do it. [/quote]Last time I saw Erik, he weakened my left hand grip. It keeps slipping back, so I have to monitor that better. I've never had an issue with the height of my fflight, though. The mat is a FairwayPro. I've had it for years. I like it because it slides forward with your swing, so your club can't bounce off it and give you a false sensation of a good hit on a fat shot. And it's portable, so you can take it to the range. [URL]http://www.amazon.com/FairwayPro-Divot-Simulator-Golf-Mat/dp/B002CXMT7K[/URL]

[iacas]

Spent most of the day with @pcombs21 at Metedeconk. We worked on the skills I need to work on to score better (all of them).

Got lots of homework to do for a while.

Elaborate (quite a bit), please?

[billchao]

Elaborate (quite a bit), please?

Sure, it will be a good exercise to recount my lesson, anyway. The post is pretty lengthy. Hopefully, @pcombs21 can chime in if I missed anything or got anything wrong. We worked on the full swing for quite some time, focusing on getting rid of the extra movements in my swing that give me issues with Keys #4 & #5. First, we focused on retaining the pressure points on my right tricep to keep my elbow from getting behind my shirt seam as well as to keep everything from getting way long at the top to where my club gets past parallel. Wrist conditions have to do with that, too, but we wanted to do things one step at a time. The arms looked pretty good after that, but I was still having contact issues due to overactive wrists. He explained to me that I was retaining too much lag because I cock the wrists too much, so I had to dump everything very quickly very late in the downswing and the timing of that was what gives me problems. So we went with a Steve Stricker feel with the takeaway on top of the right tricep feel. The right arm thing I got fairly quickly, but the wrist thing I'm probably going to have to exaggerate for a bit. After I got the hang of those moves (for that time), we moved into shot making. Preston gave me the image of a giant tic-tac-toe board in front of me that I needed to hit top center through with some slow motion driver swings, still focusing on the motions and making sure I don't get too long in the backswing. After a while, we started adding some speed, still trying to stay within the "boundary" we set at A4. By the end of the session, I was swinging at full speed but still keeping the backswing in check; I was actually surprised that I could go back so short and still swing to a full finish (not to mention, full distance on my shots). We worked on my irons, too, but it was a lot of the same movements. The only difference was that I needed to find the bottom of the arc in the beginning, but that didn't take too long to figure out, either. When I lose the feel for the swing, we did long arm pitches to get it back. We worked on short game after that. There wasn't a whole lot to fix, just my wrists were too active going back which led to them being too active going through. Ended up with the Stricker feel on that, too, or as I called it, "the hold and hold" pitching technique ;-). I hinge too much, so I should never want to think about hinging. Preston showed me how to thump the bounce on the ground instead of just brushing the ground as I was doing which have me better contact, and he showed me how to alter my trajectory on different shots. He said I tend to have my club too open at address. We broke for lunch and had the AimPoint class after that. It was good to take the class again, because I had forgotten some stuff, but it was really easy to pick up again. Once that was done, we worked on the SAM PuttLab. When I started, I aimed 2° open and rotated the club closed through the stroke. It was ugly and inconsistent. We raised the handle at address and tweaked my through stroke motion more down the line and I started doing fairly well. Acceleration profile was good, but being bad at aiming really messed up my stroke. That's pretty much it, I think. We spent some time after that filming some video that'll fool everyone into think I'm a decent golfer and finished the day back on the range. Preston wanted me to tell you that he's hitting the ball great, BTW. I'll share the videos when I get them. It was a fun day, Metedeconk is awesome, and Preston is a great instructor. I definitely recommend anyone in the area to go see him.

[Abu3baid]

Sure, it will be a good exercise to recount my lesson, anyway. The post is pretty lengthy. Hopefully, @pcombs21 can chime in if I missed anything or got anything wrong. We worked on the full swing for quite some time, focusing on getting rid of the extra movements in my swing that give me issues with Keys #4 & #5. First, we focused on retaining the pressure points on my right tricep to keep my elbow from getting behind my shirt seam as well as to keep everything from getting way long at the top to where my club gets past parallel. Wrist conditions have to do with that, too, but we wanted to do things one step at a time. The arms looked pretty good after that, but I was still having contact issues due to overactive wrists. He explained to me that I was retaining too much lag because I cock the wrists too much, so I had to dump everything very quickly very late in the downswing and the timing of that was what gives me problems. So we went with a Steve Stricker feel with the takeaway on top of the right tricep feel. The right arm thing I got fairly quickly, but the wrist thing I'm probably going to have to exaggerate for a bit. After I got the hang of those moves (for that time), we moved into shot making. Preston gave me the image of a giant tic-tac-toe board in front of me that I needed to hit top center through with some slow motion driver swings, still focusing on the motions and making sure I don't get too long in the backswing. After a while, we started adding some speed, still trying to stay within the "boundary" we set at A4. By the end of the session, I was swinging at full speed but still keeping the backswing in check; I was actually surprised that I could go back so short and still swing to a full finish (not to mention, full distance on my shots). We worked on my irons, too, but it was a lot of the same movements. The only difference was that I needed to find the bottom of the arc in the beginning, but that didn't take too long to figure out, either. When I lose the feel for the swing, we did long arm pitches to get it back. We worked on short game after that. There wasn't a whole lot to fix, just my wrists were too active going back which led to them being too active going through. Ended up with the Stricker feel on that, too, or as I called it, "the hold and hold" pitching technique ;-). I hinge too much, so I should never want to think about hinging. Preston showed me how to thump the bounce on the ground instead of just brushing the ground as I was doing which have me better contact, and he showed me how to alter my trajectory on different shots. He said I tend to have my club too open at address. We broke for lunch and had the AimPoint class after that. It was good to take the class again, because I had forgotten some stuff, but it was really easy to pick up again. Once that was done, we worked on the SAM PuttLab. When I started, I aimed 2° open and rotated the club closed through the stroke. It was ugly and inconsistent. We raised the handle at address and tweaked my through stroke motion more down the line and I started doing fairly well. Acceleration profile was good, but being bad at aiming really messed up my stroke. That's pretty much it, I think. We spent some time after that filming some video that'll fool everyone into think I'm a decent golfer and finished the day back on the range. Preston wanted me to tell you that he's hitting the ball great, BTW. I'll share the videos when I get them. It was a fun day, Metedeconk is awesome, and Preston is a great instructor. I definitely recommend anyone in the area to go see him.

That sounds like a great time, and it looks like you were really able to address a lot of things.. (Maybe too much?). But it sounds like you have your work cut out for you for sure!! I can't wait to have my lesson in a couple of weeks... Did you put a plan together for the way forward and following up and stuff or are you planning on doing it as a needed basis? Good stuff and I'm wishing you the best!!

[mvmac]

That's pretty much it, I think. We spent some time after that filming some video that'll fool everyone into think I'm a decent golfer and finished the day back on the range. Preston wanted me to tell you that he's hitting the ball great, BTW. I'll share the videos when I get them.

Sounds like you had a great day, looking forward to the video.

[pcombs21]

Thank you for the kind words Bill. Seems like a lot because, well, not sure next time schedules allow us to catch up, so we worked on four topics. You know how this game goes; it'd be easy if I drove it better, hit solid irons, got up and down and made a few putts.

Let's start with the SAM PuttLab reports.

[billchao]

That sounds like a great time, and it looks like you were really able to address a lot of things.. (Maybe too much?). But it sounds like you have your work cut out for you for sure!! I can't wait to have my lesson in a couple of weeks...

Actually, the motions are much easier to perform than articulate, so I don't believe it's too many things at once. They're different skills so they're easy to compartmentalize. Plus, the full swing and pitching changes are both in the takeaway and they feel very similar. Just sounds and reads like a lot.

Hope you have a good time with your lesson.

Did you put a plan together for the way forward and following up and stuff or are you planning on doing it as a needed basis?

Good stuff and I'm wishing you the best!!

Just playing it by ear for now. Thanks, same to you!

Sounds like you had a great day, looking forward to the video.

Yea, it was a great day. I haven't been able to spend pretty much a whole day doing golf stuff since the Erie trip and it was a blast.

Thank you for the kind words Bill. Seems like a lot because, well, not sure next time schedules allow us to catch up, so we worked on four topics. You know how this game goes; it'd be easy if I drove it better, hit solid irons, got up and down and made a few putts.

It's like I tell everyone, I'm great at golf. My scorecards just haven't gotten the memo, yet.

[billchao]

Some new videos today:

This was the very first swing of the range session. I wanted to take it "raw," before I started to get too far into what I was working on, to get a good picture of what my swing looks like right now in it's natural state. Backswing is looking good, but that downswing is seriously steep and way left. Oh, and the camera angle is off slightly.

I spent the next 40 minutes trying to shallow the shaft out, while still being mindful of my backswing piece. Couldn't do it. I think that the extra length in my old backswing gave me more time to shallow the club out, albeit incorrectly, and I'm just stuck with the steep transition with the shorter swing.

I finally gave up when it was time for dinner and decided to try one more thing. I figured, if I wanted to shallow out the shaft, I'll just turn my hands really flat at the top. This is the result:

Probably not so great on the overtaking rates, but **** it, I shallowed the shaft. Single-minded goal... success!

I'll try to take a FO shot, too, next time.

[iacas]

Bill, the problem is not the overtaking rates at all, it's that you just shove your left arm deeper. Look at it at 5. Way too deep. Look at Jason's swing thread for the same exact thing. Also, is this the stuff Preston how do you doing or are you making new things for yourself to try?

[billchao]

Bill, the problem is not the overtaking rates at all, it's that you just shove your left arm deeper. Look at it at 5. Way too deep.

It used to be the overtaking rates, so I just assumed that's something I should keep an eye on forever. I think I see what you're saying. I'm turning, but leaving the hands behind?

Look at Jason's swing thread for the same exact thing. Also, is this the stuff Preston how do you doing or are you making new things for yourself to try?

I'll take a look, thanks. Preston and I didn't work on the downswing. Just shortening the backswing and getting rid of the extra wrist hinge cleaned up a lot of things, so we focused primarily on that. Plus, that stuff was really hard for me when I first started doing it, so I don't think we wanted to pile on too much at once.

I wanted to take a look at what was going on after playing yesterday and hitting some weird shots, but yea, kind of just messing around since I saw I was coming down steep.

You're saying I should stick with the swing in the first video? That one's easier to do

[iacas]

I think I see what you're saying. I'm turning, but leaving the hands behind?

I'm saying that when you try to lay the shaft down you just take your hands deeper, when in reality they should be coming OUT (losing depth) more in that phase.

I'll take a look, thanks. Preston and I didn't work on the downswing. Just shortening the backswing and getting rid of the extra wrist hinge cleaned up a lot of things, so we focused primarily on that. Plus, that stuff was really hard for me when I first started doing it, so I don't think we wanted to pile on too much at once.

Right, then don't - just keep working on that. Ignore that you're a little OTT and left right now. Don't worry about it right now. CEMENT the stuff you and Preston were working on, THEN when it is 100% natural, do whatever is next.