Sand wedge (54-58?) - is the sweet spot for full(ish) shots lower on the face?

[Lihu]

You know I'm being 100% facetious, right? I have zero doubts that's yours ... I just want to harass you again to start a swing thread. ;)

I think he figured that one out.

He simply forgot to put the + in his HC.

[birlyshirly]

I don't think the intent with specialty shots are the same. Your not trying hit it pure to get maximum distance with a piercing trajectory, your trying to flop it. Your also flipping through impact so...not the same thing at all.

As far as hitting it higher or lower on the face to alter spin, traj etc...the sweet spot can't be both higher and lower so I assume that you would be sacrificing maximum energy transfer in exchange for a spin/trajectory combination that will be advantageous for that particular shot. Again, your not trying to nut these shots as far as possible, your finessing them.

Keep in mind I'm basically a beginner in all this stuff but I'm learning a lot on here. If anyone wants to chime in and correct me on any if this I'm ready to proven wrong.

The flop shot was only an example to try and illustrate that as the face angle changes, so does the point of contact. Obviously an extreme example, but what's true at the extremes is going to be true to a lesser extent in more orthodox shots.

The OP was talking about wedge play - so not true that he's trying to "nut them as far as possible".

But even on full swings, I think that the location of the "sweetspot" on the face varies with the club path. There are pictures on this site of Tiger's wear spot - tight and low on the face. This despite his irons having, I believe, a relatively high CoG.

The clubhead's CoG isn't located on the clubface. A "sweet" strike lines up the clubhead's CoG with the ball's - parallel to the clubhead's 3D path . The clubpath direction therefore dictates where that line intersects the clubface. The effect will be more pronounced the further from the face the clubhead's CoG is located.

[David in FL]

You know I'm being 100% facetious, right? I have zero doubts that's yours ... I just want to harass you again to start a swing thread. ;)

Yeah, I know!

Gotta get some kind of tripod thing for my iphone and I'll shoot one.....  Laughing is not only allowed, it's encouraged.

[Ernest Jones]

The clubhead's CoG isn't located on the clubface.

Interesting. I never looked at it like that but it makes sense. The CoG is fixed but the corresponding "point" on the club face could vary based on how far back from the club face surface the CoG is located and how the loft is being applied. Generally speaking irons aren't very "deep" so I suspect the variance would be minimal no?

[iacas]

Generally speaking irons aren't very "deep" so I suspect the variance would be minimal no?

Correct. Less than a dimple (and not one of those big ones) in normal play (no trick shots with 40° of shaft lean or something).

[birlyshirly]

Interesting. I never looked at it like that but it makes sense. The CoG is fixed but the corresponding "point" on the club face could vary based on how far back from the club face surface the CoG is located and how the loft is being applied.

That's certainly my view.

Generally speaking irons aren't very "deep" so I suspect the variance would be minimal no?

Quite possibly. I don't suppose we're talking about more than a groove or two. But if you can find the pictures posted around here of TW's wear spot, I think lots of people commented on how low on the face it appeared to be. And not even I  am going to suggest that it's from hitting it thin.

Then again, there's the variance especially in wedge play of "reasonably sweet" rather than "perfectly sweet" shots that, combined with gear effect, might produce different shots, ballflights and spin. Karsten Solheim thought that it was a good thing to design irons with a technically "too high" CoG - that the result would be lower launching, higher spinning shots. Almost the opposite of the players who (perhaps from being poorly fitted in the first place) get good results from hitting the driver slightly above the sweet spot - where there's extra loft, and higher launch/lower spin launch conditions due to gear effect.

[David in FL]

Could you show us your other clubs as well?

Did you leave the '+' out of your handicap???

Here's a 5-iron......not real easy to see.  I don't spend much (any) time at the range, so for all the rounds on these irons, each individual iron probably hasn't been hit as often as someone who practices a lot but plays a lot less than I do....

Plus?  Hahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!  Did I mention my ninety freaking five the other day?!   Hell, I'm just struggling to get under 5 for more than a revision or two!

I'll be the first to tell you that like most mid single-digit players (I think Erik and Mike will back me up here) I'm NOT what I would call a particularly good ball-striker.  Meaning, that even though you can see where I generally hit the ball on the face, there are a lot of times that I'm outside of that.  That's why I'm so adamant that the biggest opportunity for most players......especially the mid/higher hcp players, is to improve their full swing ball-striking, and the first step to doing that is to really accept and understand what good ball-striking really is.  There are a lot of mid-cappers out there that think they strike the ball well.  They don't......and again, neither do I.  Until they understand that, most of them are going to be stuck at mediocrity.

[Ernest Jones]

Plus?  Hahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!  Did I mention my ninety freaking five the other day?!   Hell, I'm just struggling to get under 5 for more than a revision or two!

Read about it over my morning coffee. Sounds like the snake won that round!

I'll be the first to tell you that like most mid single-digit players (I think Erik and Mike will back me up here) I'm NOT what I would call a particularly good ball-striker.  Meaning, that even though you can see where I generally hit the ball on the face, there are a lot of times that I'm outside of that.  That's why I'm so adamant that the biggest opportunity for most players......especially the mid/higher hcp players, is to improve their full swing ball-striking, and the first step to doing that is to really accept and understand what good ball-striking really is.  There are a lot of mid-cappers out there that think they strike the ball well.  They don't......and again, neither do I.  Until they understand that, most of them are going to be stuck at mediocrity.

Definitely. I remember I guy on here a few months back who insisted that ball striking was not his issue and that he really made great contact. When asked why his HC was so high (18-20 IIRC) he said it was because he didn't always know where the ball was going... Total disconnect on what "great ballstriking" actually means. If you're missing your start line and/or not controlling curve you are NOT a great ball striker regardless of how "great" you deem your contact to be.

[Lihu]

Here's a 5-iron......not real easy to see... [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/content/type/61/id/85706/] [/URL] I'll be the first to tell you that like most mid single-digit players (I think Erik and Mike will back me up here) I'm NOT what I would call a particularly good ball-striker.  Meaning, that even though you can see where I generally hit the ball on the face, there are a lot of times that I'm outside of that.  That's why I'm so adamant that the biggest opportunity for most players......especially the mid/higher hcp players, is to improve their full swing ball-striking, and the first step to doing that is to really accept and understand what good ball-striking really is .  There are a lot of mid-cappers out there that think they strike the ball well.  They don't......and again, neither do I.  Until they understand that, most of them are going to be stuck at mediocrity.

Nice 5 iron ball mark, it's easy to see. How do you know when you strike the ball well? I am just getting to the point where I can actually swing, but I hit only a few that I feel really good about. Most of my shots are borderline thin and towards the heel, and I can feel them more in my lead arm fingers. Sometimes, I feel nothing in either hand and the ball goes straight and far and makes a hissing sound for a fraction of a second. Is this considered a good ball strike? If so, I'm getting only a few. If not, I've got a long way to go yet.

[David in FL]

Definitely. I remember I guy on here a few months back who insisted that ball striking was not his issue and that he really made great contact. When asked why his HC was so high (18-20 IIRC) he said it was because he didn't always know where the ball was going... Total disconnect on what "great ballstriking" actually means. If you're missing your start line and/or not controlling curve you are NOT a great ball striker regardless of how "great" you deem your contact to be.

Nice 5 iron ball mark, it's easy to see.

How do you know when you strike the ball well?

I am just getting to the point where I can actually swing, but I hit only a few that I feel really good about. Most of my shots are borderline thin and towards the heel, and I can feel them more in my lead arm fingers.

Sometimes, I feel nothing in either hand and the ball goes straight and far and makes a hissing sound for a fraction of a second. Is this considered a good ball strike? If so, I'm getting only a few. If not, I've got a long way to go yet.

I agree with EJ's post above.  It's not only making that good contact, it's also being able to get the ball on the right line and controlling the trajectory and ball path with a high degree of consistency.

That's what I mean about understanding what it means/takes to be a good ball-striker.  Too many people are happy when they get to the point that they don't fat or skull every other shot and think that now all they have to do is learn how to putt.......I'm here to tell you, I'm not that much of a better putter than you.  I promise.