Which shaft?

[KyleAnthony]

ok so i went to the pya superstore last night and was hitting on the simulator and the associate helping me used to be a head pro at a local course. he told me that i hit my driver like an iron, i come down on it not up on it. so he told me to make a straight line from my left foot up my leg past my hip to my shoulder so that i catch the ball on the up swing. i feel more stable than my old swing so i can get a little more club speed. i took my driver out and was hitting it consistently 315 yards, and one that was 340 Wo0t!, but i was pulling them a little left. just enough to be off the fairway by 5-10 yards. should i get a stiffer shaft to compensate for the faster swing? i don't know about all these different things you can do to a shaft. like tip stiff and all that other stuff. my driver is a callaway x hot 9.5 with the stock project x 6.0 shaft. any help would be appreciated. also my first tournament is in 2 weeks so i want to be able to hit the fairway haha

[mvmac]

What was your swing speed?  What was the spin rate?  What was the launch angle?  If you know those you'll have a better idea of what flex to use.  If you're hitting it 315, there is a good chance an X-Flex would be a good fit.

[KyleAnthony]

when i was hitting my normal swing in the simulator thing my club speed was averaging 110. some 107's some 112. i had a lot of spin with my old swing because i was coming down on it and the launch angle was 15. with the new swing i imagine the spin is less and the speed has increased because it rolled out a lot and the trajectory was close to the same. would a stiff flex shaft have to much flex and cause the club face to be shut? this was my thinking

also does anyone a good shaft that is maybe between the project x 6.0 and an x stiff shaft? i know nothing about shafts and didn't really want to spend a whole bunch on a shaft. any input is greatly appreciated. also on a side note i might talk my girlfriend into letting me stop by dicks sports and hit in their simulator to get new numbers. i will post asap

[LuciusWooding]

340 with a 112 SS is nowhere near reality. They set the conditions in the sim to give you a lot more distance for a given shot so that you buy their stuff. Expect to hit it more like 270-280 total on a real course. Consistently hitting 315 is unheard of. The professionals that swing 112 all average about 290 total which is a lot better efficiency than most amateurs could do with that SS. If you're hitting down on your driver, you can subtract about 15 yards more.

These charts are the ideal numbers for driver fitting. They are not necessarily attainable; good luck getting 1600 spin from 120mph SS. They also include a fairly healthy amount of roll, in the northeast for one I don't see this much roll on many shots, so the carry distances are a lot more relevant.

Simulators are not the same thing as an actual launch monitor, just like Madden 25 is not the same as tackle football. An LM like Trackman or Flightscope is very accurate and professional but they cost a lot ($4,000-20,000). A simulator is cheap and looks legit but you can't trust the data. There are some that estimate your distance based on a perfect shot for that SS when you could actually have hit it like crap, others that don't get calibrated, and others that get set to high altitude, hard ground, and tailwind conditions.

I have a 118mph SS last time I checked, and I can carry it about 280 with my driver with a typical good shot. That's not an average and the conditions need to be a bit favorable or else it's difficult to hit it like that. For me to hit it over 300 yards requires a bit of roll and little to no wind, and my longest drive so far was about 315 over a hill onto a flat area where it kicked a few extra yards. On paper I'd be expecting to annihilate any course but it doesn't help as much as some people think. For one thing, I don't really get too much roll due to course conditions, so my maximum is reduced. The reason I can drive the ball effectively is because of the height and carry I get; lots of guys can hit 300 if they have a flat field for their low shots to run, but they can't do the same thing on a dogleg.

As far as shaft recommendations, I use the Miyazaki Kusala black 72x with a 7.5˚ Adams fast 12 LS head. It's an awesome shaft and very good control and launch conditions but it's a bit expensive in retail. I'd suggest you look into an X flex in the 70 gram range, but you'll need time to practice with it before playing in a tourney. Maybe an aldila rip alpha from ebay, they go pretty cheap and are fairly accurate without being unhittable. I don't recommend hitting a 7.5˚ unless you can hit a massive uppercut. I'm not sure how high my angle of attack or launch angle are, but I'm confident that they're absurdly high.

To get a consistent 340 yard potential, you'd need a swing speed firmly in the 130s with great contact and launch conditions. Don't change your shaft 2 weeks before a tournament unless you don't care at all about it. And if you switch from hitting down to hitting up in that span I don't think there's a realistic chance you'll hit fairways with confidence. It's a huge change and many tour pros decide against making it despite the distance gains.

[MS256]

Good post Lucius.  We need to take common sense with us when hitting balls on a simulator in a store.

Last summer a guy in our group had just bought a new driver. On the 18th tee he and another guy were talking about it and he said he was getting 295 yards carry in the store (and acted like he believed it).

I didn't say anything but I've seen him play many times and I know the distances on that course like the back of my hand. I have never seen him hit a ball that carried any more than around 270, and very few of those. His average carry is between 250 and 260 with too much fade.

[Golfingdad]

@KyleAnthony I don't think that there is an easy answer here.  I also have an xhot (shameless plug here: http://thesandtrap.com/t/63809/callaway-visit-tons-of-in-hand-pics-of-the-2013-callaway-razr-xtreme-x-hot-driver-x-hot-fairway-x-hot-irons-x-forged-irons/0_30 and here: http://thesandtrap.com/t/58537/the-sand-trap-visits-callaway-golf-razr-fit-driver-fitting-at-the-ely-callaway-performance-center/0_30 ) and I love it.

Mine has a Diamana AHina X flex (45") shaft that I got when fitted for the RazrFit.  The stock Project X from the xhot just didn't work for me so I swapped them.  I think there are so many variables that its impossible to know what shaft is good without actually testing them out.

P.S.  If you have any questions about Talega, PM me because that is basically my home course.  Same is true, to a lesser extent, of Monarch Beach.  Not home course, but I've played there.

Cheers.

[mvmac]

also does anyone a good shaft that is maybe between the project x 6.0 and an x stiff shaft? i know nothing about shafts and didn't really want to spend a whole bunch on a shaft. any input is greatly appreciated. also on a side note i might talk my girlfriend into letting me stop by dicks sports and hit in their simulator to get new numbers. i will post asap

Project X 6.5

http://www.pxshaft.com/product_projectx_black.asp

340 with a 112 SS is nowhere near reality. They set the conditions in the sim to give you a lot more distance for a given shot so that you buy their stuff. Expect to hit it more like 270-280 total on a real course. Consistently hitting 315 is unheard of. The professionals that swing 112 all average about 290 total which is a lot better efficiency than most amateurs could do with that SS. If you're hitting down on your driver, you can subtract about 15 yards more.

Good post Lucius.  We need to take common sense with us when hitting balls on a simulator in a store.

Yeah those simulators can be "juiced" to help them sell more drivers.  Reason I followed up with those questions.

[KyleAnthony]

@KyleAnthony I don't think that there is an easy answer here.  I also have an xhot (shameless plug here: http://thesandtrap.com/t/63809/callaway-visit-tons-of-in-hand-pics-of-the-2013-callaway-razr-xtreme-x-hot-driver-x-hot-fairway-x-hot-irons-x-forged-irons/0_30 and here: http://thesandtrap.com/t/58537/the-sand-trap-visits-callaway-golf-razr-fit-driver-fitting-at-the-ely-callaway-performance-center/0_30) and I love it.

Mine has a Diamana AHina X flex (45") shaft that I got when fitted for the RazrFit.  The stock Project X from the xhot just didn't work for me so I swapped them.  I think there are so many variables that its impossible to know what shaft is good without actually testing them out.

P.S.  If you have any questions about Talega, PM me because that is basically my home course.  Same is true, to a lesser extent, of Monarch Beach.  Not home course, but I've played there.

Cheers.

Hey ya I'm going to head out to Talega next thursday for a practice round. if you're up for it you are more than welcome to join me out there. was going to head out early in the morning. and ya if you have any tips please feel free to PM me. and i went on monarchs website and looked at the holes and took notes off of those haha but ya any advice i would love. also how do you test out shafts?

i went to the dicks sporting goods and took a couple swings in there with the driver i have now. it didn't measure swing speed, but it did give me ball speed. ball speed was 159-164 and launch angle was 11-13*, spin was 2600-2900. my carry on that simulator was 235 which i couldn't imagine being true due to actual shots on the course. i did however figure out why i was pulling it. i wasn't transferring my weight forward like i should. SMH. any who so I'm glad i got that figured out. I'm going to the range tomorrow to practice for a couple hours so hopefully i'll get this all straightened out. Maybe i will hit up PGA Superstore and see what shafts they have

[Lihu]

i went to the dicks sporting goods and took a couple swings in there with the driver i have now. it didn't measure swing speed, but it did give me ball speed. ball speed was 159-164 and launch angle was 11-13*, spin was 2600-2900. my carry on that simulator was 235 which i couldn't imagine being true due to actual shots on the course. i did however figure out why i was pulling it. i wasn't transferring my weight forward like i should. SMH. any who so I'm glad i got that figured out. I'm going to the range tomorrow to practice for a couple hours so hopefully i'll get this all straightened out. Maybe i will hit up PGA Superstore and see what shafts they have

I had a similar experience at three stores, all my carries were in the 218 yard range at Dick's. Golfsmith was worse at 190, but the salesman didn't know what he was doing. He just wanted to say what many people on this forum do "I hit really far, and there's no way you can outhit me." A local clubfitter measured roughly the same as Dick's. At least the pro at dicks got on the monitor himself to see it was not calibrated, he also hit shorter than expected. The stores make money either way. They give a younger strong looking person a super stiff light shaft, and an older person a super whippy shaft. In either case, they will both be back to purchase another club really soon. I completely ignored them all, and went with a heavy steel shaft. No regrets. I did have the benefit of a 3D accelerometer/gyro to roughly tune it. Rough was all I needed, I guess.

[saevel25]

Distance is usually off on simulators. Golfsmith is the closest to being the most accurate, especially on iron carry. As for getting 1600 rpm. It is possible. My swing speed is 117 when it gets going. I got 1600 rpm with the Taylormade SLDR. That will soon be my new driver, the thing is a monster.

[Lihu]

Distance is usually off on simulators. Golfsmith is the closest to being the most accurate, especially on iron carry. As for getting 1600 rpm. It is possible. My swing speed is 117 when it gets going. I got 1600 rpm with the Taylormade SLDR. That will soon be my new driver, the thing is a monster.

Golfsmith was the only one that reported at I needed a ladies flex, yet I out drive many people with my 3W with a steel 135 gram Xstiff shaft. Maybe they boost the speed for righties and that, of course, would make lefties look unboosted :-D In any case, the Golfsmith monitor setup the way that particular salesman set it up gave the least accurate readings. Btw, my son (5'5" maybe 100 pounds) hit a 258 yard drive (carry) with the SLDR. He does not out drive me, at this point. Make sure they didn't cook anything in your readings on their most expensive driver. ;-)

[MS256]

Golfsmith was the only one that reported at I needed a ladies flex, yet I out drive many people with my 3W with a steel 135 gram Xstiff shaft.

Maybe they boost the speed for righties and that, of course, would make lefties look unboosted

In any case, the Golfsmith monitor setup the way that particular salesman set it up gave the least accurate readings.

My son worked at a store with a monitor that was off either one way or the other quite often. In that case there was nothing intentional about it because the guys working there wanted it to be right so they could use it but it didn't stay calibrated for some reason.

Of course he had some funny stories about customer's expectations even when it was working right. Plenty thought they should be getting 300 yard carries (a familiar story in golf I guess).

P.S. At least at that store they told the customers when they thought the monitor wasn't working right.

[Lihu]

[QUOTE name="Lihu" url="/t/71732/which-shaft#post_934754"] Golfsmith was the only one that reported at I needed a ladies flex, yet I out drive many people with my 3W with a steel 135 gram Xstiff shaft. Maybe they boost the speed for righties and that, of course, would make lefties look unboosted :-D In any case, the Golfsmith monitor setup the way that particular salesman set it up gave the least accurate readings.[/QUOTE] My son worked at a store with a monitor that was off either one way or the other quite often. In that case there was nothing intentional about it because the guys working there wanted it to be right so they could use it but it didn't stay calibrated for some reason. Of course he had some funny stories about customer's expectations even when it was working right. Plenty thought they should be getting 300 yard carries (a familiar story in golf I guess). P.S. At least at that store they told the customers when they thought the monitor wasn't working right.

Right, there's no conspiracy, but the equipment should not be that inaccurate. From a technology standpoint there is no excuse for a $6000 plus piece of equipment to be off by 15% or more. Monitors should be within 2%. It's really not that hard to measure the speed of something moving only 40m/s to 100m/s maybe 150m/s? You're right about the 300 yard expectations. :-D

[mvmac]

i went to the dicks sporting goods and took a couple swings in there with the driver i have now. it didn't measure swing speed, but it did give me ball speed. ball speed was 159-164 and launch angle was 11-13*, spin was 2600-2900. my carry on that simulator was 235 which i couldn't imagine being true due to actual shots on the course. i did however figure out why i was pulling it. i wasn't transferring my weight forward like i should. SMH. any who so I'm glad i got that figured out. I'm going to the range tomorrow to practice for a couple hours so hopefully i'll get this all straightened out. Maybe i will hit up PGA Superstore and see what shafts they have

Yeah 235 carry doesn't seem right at all.  164 ball speed, 11* launch, 2600 spin, ball should carry about 275.  Can input the numbers here http://flightscope.com/products/trajectory-optimizer/

[Lihu]

[QUOTE name="KyleAnthony" url="/t/71732/which-shaft#post_934738"] i went to the dicks sporting goods and took a couple swings in there with the driver i have now. it didn't measure swing speed, but it did give me ball speed. ball speed was 159-164 and launch angle was 11-13*, spin was 2600-2900. my carry on that simulator was 235 which i couldn't imagine being true due to actual shots on the course. i did however figure out why i was pulling it. i wasn't transferring my weight forward like i should. SMH. any who so I'm glad i got that figured out. I'm going to the range tomorrow to practice for a couple hours so hopefully i'll get this all straightened out. Maybe i will hit up PGA Superstore and see what shafts they have [/QUOTE] Yeah 235 carry doesn't seem right at all.  164 ball speed, 11* launch, 2600 spin, ball should carry about 275.  Can input the numbers here [URL=http://flightscope.com/products/trajectory-optimizer/]http://flightscope.com/products/trajectory-optimizer/[/URL]

It sounds like the raw measurements were correct, so why did the software come up with that carry distance? What kind of conditions would cause a ball to lose 15% distance?