Haney talks about Tiger again

[mutadayen]

I dont think the weight training or his physical routine really is having a negative impact to his game.  I dont think that's been an issue.  What i've noticed, and maybe this is just me, but I stayed up and watched the first round of Dubai tourney last night and he appears never to be able to hit a draw.  The entire back 9 is set up for a draw, and he only hit fades.  On one particular hole, he was between 40-50 yards behind Rory, who both use the same driver, but Tiger hit a fade electing to go over trees where Rory following the course setup.  Is it just me, or has the draw been completely wiped away from his game altogether?  Very strange to watch from a player of his stature who's been playing all of his life.  You'd figure he'd able to pull out a draw on command should he choose to, but it now seems not to be the case.  The working out to me is only beneficial.

[Harmonious]

I dont think the weight training or his physical routine really is having a negative impact to his game.  I dont think that's been an issue.  What i've noticed, and maybe this is just me, but I stayed up and watched the first round of Dubai tourney last night and he appears never to be able to hit a draw.  The entire back 9 is set up for a draw, and he only hit fades.  On one particular hole, he was between 40-50 yards behind Rory, who both use the same driver, but Tiger hit a fade electing to go over trees where Rory following the course setup.  Is it just me, or has the draw been completely wiped away from his game altogether?  Very strange to watch from a player of his stature who's been playing all of his life.  You'd figure he'd able to pull out a draw on command should he choose to, but it now seems not to be the case.  The working out to me is only beneficial.

After you've hit snap hooks (and Woods has hit plenty of them in the past several years) you don't ever want to hit another.  Thus, his reliance on fades these days.

[mutadayen]

After you've hit snap hooks (and Woods has hit plenty of them in the past several years) you don't ever want to hit another.  Thus, his reliance on fades these days.

Honestly, that makes sense.  That simple sentence has explained more than most experts on the golf channel have explained

[Mr. Desmond]

I dont think the weight training or his physical routine really is having a negative impact to his game.  I dont think that's been an issue.  What i've noticed, and maybe this is just me, but I stayed up and watched the first round of Dubai tourney last night and he appears never to be able to hit a draw.  The entire back 9 is set up for a draw, and he only hit fades.  On one particular hole, he was between 40-50 yards behind Rory, who both use the same driver, but Tiger hit a fade electing to go over trees where Rory following the course setup.  Is it just me, or has the draw been completely wiped away from his game altogether?  Very strange to watch from a player of his stature who's been playing all of his life.  You'd figure he'd able to pull out a draw on command should he choose to, but it now seems not to be the case.  The working out to me is only beneficial.

I think Tiger drove with a 5 Wood on that hole, which explains the  Wal-Mart between his ball and Rory's.

[mutadayen]

It was definitely a driver on a sharp dogleg left hole.  I watched it again as i was working from home and it had it in the background.  Rory and Tiger both took out drivers, Rory went with the layout of the course (as did the other playing partner), and Tiger faded it over the trees.  All were in teh fairway, but because of the fade and the setup of the hole, Tiger was way behind the other two

[Harmonious]

Honestly, that makes sense.  That simple sentence has explained more than most experts on the golf channel have explained

Well, thank you. I have been in negotiations with the Golf Channel about replacing Sir Nick. Still waiting for the phone call.

[Mr. Desmond]

It was definitely a driver on a sharp dogleg left hole.  I watched it again as i was working from home and it had it in the background.  Rory and Tiger both took out drivers, Rory went with the layout of the course (as did the other playing partner), and Tiger faded it over the trees.  All were in teh fairway, but because of the fade and the setup of the hole, Tiger was way behind the other two

I remember the par 5 where Tigs took a 5 wood, and yes, on another hole he took driver and was behind the other two … long night, I was half-asleep.

I expected more from the Foley-Tiger tandem. I almost expect Tiger to stick with Foley longer than he should because Foley is such an odd duck.

[jgreen85]

It was definitely a driver on a sharp dogleg left hole.  I watched it again as i was working from home and it had it in the background.  Rory and Tiger both took out drivers, Rory went with the layout of the course (as did the other playing partner), and Tiger faded it over the trees.  All were in teh fairway, but because of the fade and the setup of the hole, Tiger was way behind the other two

To be fair, a draw is Rory's preferred shot shape. Not sure how many drives he hits go the other way.

[Mr. Desmond]

I'm sorry - but who gives a crap if Tiger did or didn't use a driver -- what's important is that he's  lost confidence with the driver for long periods of time and for a couple of years now, has trouble controlling the ball with his swing with the driver. (Well longer than that, but let's count Foley time … which is 3.5 years - wasn't it spring/summer 2010?)

We saw last year that when Tigs is using 3 or 5 wood instead of driver, that relying on 220 yard approach shots to put him in position for birdie doesn't work on a consistent basis. Especially when the other guy's approaches are 160-170. You don't win majors with that play … and he did not in 2013.

He may strike gold for 4 days this year, but the odds are low unless...

[turtleback]

I'm sorry - but who gives a crap if Tiger did or didn't use a driver -- what's important is that he's  lost confidence with the driver for long periods of time and for a couple of years now, has trouble controlling the ball with his swing with the driver. (Well longer than that, but let's count Foley time … which is 3.5 years - wasn't it spring/summer 2010?)

We saw last year that when Tigs is using 3 or 5 wood instead of driver, that relying on 220 yard approach shots to put him in position for birdie doesn't work on a consistent basis. Especially when the other guy's approaches are 160-170. You don't win majors with that play … and he did not in 2013.

He may strike gold for 4 days this year, but the odds are low unless...

That would be a great argument except for the fact that 2012 and 2013 were a couple of his best driving seasons, as measured by his rank in Total Driving, in his career.  In 2012 he was 5th, 3rd best of his career after 1999 and 2000,and in 2013 he was 17th, which was only bettered by the aforementioned years plus 2002.  Since Total Driving incorporates both driving distance and driving accuracy it seems like the best measure to use.  When the last 2 years were his third and fifth best years in Total Driving it is hard to argue that the problem in those years was his driving.  Whether he is achieving that combination of distance and accuracy with his driver or another club is kind of besides the point.

[Mr. Desmond]

That would be a great argument except for the fact that 2012 and 2013 were a couple of his best driving seasons, as measured by his rank in Total Driving, in his career.  In 2012 he was 5th, 3rd best of his career after 1999 and 2000,and in 2013 he was 17th, which was only bettered by the aforementioned years plus 2002.  Since Total Driving incorporates both driving distance and driving accuracy it seems like the best measure to use.  When the last 2 years were his third and fifth best years in Total Driving it is hard to argue that the problem in those years was his driving.  Whether he is achieving that combination of distance and accuracy with his driver or another club is kind of besides the point.

Problem is he stopped using a driver for periods of time -- during the British he only took it out a couple of times? That's why we saw him with 220 yard approaches on par 4. In the early part of last year, he was fine with the driver and won 5X. In the summer and the remainder of the year, he sucked. ... lol.  IOW, stats are sometimes misleading.

[Spitfisher]

That would be a great argument except for the fact that 2012 and 2013 were a couple of his best driving seasons, as measured by his rank in Total Driving, in his career.  In 2012 he was 5th, 3rd best of his career after 1999 and 2000,and in 2013 he was 17th, which was only bettered by the aforementioned years plus 2002.  Since Total Driving incorporates both driving distance and driving accuracy it seems like the best measure to use.  When the last 2 years were his third and fifth best years in Total Driving it is hard to argue that the problem in those years was his driving.  Whether he is achieving that combination of distance and accuracy with his driver or another club is kind of besides the point.

I don't recall him using driver much at all during those years- 2012 especially, I'm not taking away from the fact that he hit fairways, but hitting 2-3 irons and 5 and 3 woods can skew the results. also this was also at a time where he flying the ball over just about every green and of course his 5 footers were missing wide of the mark with regularity. But he did win 5 last year, mostly on flatter and non tree lined open courses ( florida)

[iacas]

I don't recall him using driver much at all during those years- 2012 especially, I'm not taking away from the fact that he hit fairways, but hitting 2-3 irons and 5 and 3 woods can skew the results.

That would skew the driving distance results against his favor, and "total driving" combines the two stats. You can hit 100% of the fairways but if you're using your 7-iron to do it, you're only going to be average (181 points in 2013) - 94th or so out of 180.

Tiger was a better than average driver of the golf ball last year. Broadie had him at, what, +0.07 shots gained from the tee? It's not a lot, but it's not negative either, let alone a large negative.

Also, somewhat anecdotal (and from 2012), but there is this too: http://3jack.blogspot.com/2012/03/is-tiger-unafraid-to-use-driver.html .

[saevel25]

I don't recall him using driver much at all during those years- 2012 especially, I'm not taking away from the fact that he hit fairways, but hitting 2-3 irons and 5 and 3 woods can skew the results. also this was also at a time where he flying the ball over just about every green and of course his 5 footers were missing wide of the mark with regularity. But he did win 5 last year, mostly on flatter and non tree lined open courses ( florida)

Well he known for hitting his 3 wood farther than those who hit their driver. Now everyone is hitting it farther than him. Though I think he doesn't take driver much. Last year he had a top 10 clubhead speed. I think he chooses not to hit driver, than him actually having a loss in distance. I also think he hits to down on the driver.

[Spitfisher]

Well he known for hitting his 3 wood farther than those who hit their driver. Now everyone is hitting it farther than him. Though I think he doesn't take driver much. Last year he had a top 10 clubhead speed. I think he chooses not to hit driver, than him actually having a loss in distance. I also think he hits to down on the driver.

subtly that was my point, if he hits his 3 or 5 wood, down on it, he can hit pretty far and keep in the fairway, like wise with his stinger 2,3 iron shots he can maximize roll. However if Bubba hits his driver 350 yards and is 2 yards wide of the fairway it accounts for nothing except a missed fairway....

Like wise years ago Fred Funk was never considered long, man could he hit ti straight though, he was  often ranked in the top ten of driving accuracy and total driving. Primarily because he rarely missed a fairway.

But back on topic, I'll never understand  why would you hit a 30+ yard cut if you didn't have to?  I think he suffers from an alignment and ego problem when it comes to his driver-I feel sorry for Cindy Davis.

[iacas]

subtly that was my point, if he hits his 3 or 5 wood, down on it, he can hit pretty far and keep in the fairway, like wise with his stinger 2,3 iron shots he can maximize roll. However if Bubba hits his driver 350 yards and is 2 yards wide of the fairway it accounts for nothing except a missed fairway....

I'm not sure that's what you meant to say:

The average number of yards per measured drive. These drives are measured on two holes per round. Care is taken to select two holes which face in opposite directions to counteract the effect of wind. Drives are measured to the point at which they come to rest regardless of whether they are in the fairway or not. (101).

So that drive in the rough accounts for driving distance if it's on the hole, (and a missed fairway in the accuracy measurement).

Like wise years ago Fred Funk was never considered long, man could he hit ti straight though, he was  often ranked in the top ten of driving accuracy and total driving. Primarily because he rarely missed a fairway.

93rd: http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.129.html#2007

98th: http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.129.html#2006

94th: http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.129.html#2005

93rd: http://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.129.html#2004

Just as I said: when you're #1 in one, but near dead last in the other, you wind up in the middle. By definition, it's a ranking system, not a combination of the stats (if you could somehow combine % and yards).

[3putter]

I don't recall him using driver much at all during those years- 2012 especially, I'm not taking away from the fact that he hit fairways, but hitting 2-3 irons and 5 and 3 woods can skew the results. also this was also at a time where he flying the ball over just about every green and of course his 5 footers were missing wide of the mark with regularity. But he did win 5 last year, mostly on flatter and non tree lined open courses ( florida)

Firestone might have a couple of trees on it. As for those other 4 courses, they aren't as open or as flat as your comment might suggest.

[turtleback]

Problem is he stopped using a driver for periods of time -- during the British he only took it out a couple of times? That's why we saw him with 220 yard approaches on par 4. In the early part of last year, he was fine with the driver and won 5X. In the summer and the remainder of the year, he sucked. ... lol.  IOW, stats are sometimes misleading.

The definition of a misleading stat is one that doesn't support your point.