What is the cause of OTT (over the top) or more specifically the outside in swing?

[Lihu]

But you are correct in that most of us 'need' slower speeds in order to make good ball contact.  This because, IMO, we (the hackers of the world ) have an immature understanding of the function of the lower body and an inability to incorporate and synch the lower and upper parts.

What I found from doing my A3-A6 drills enough times is that there is a feeling of leverage in the swing. A proper swing also makes the inside out swing come naturally and "slows" it down. I can't turn my lower body faster than it naturally wants to turn. So, it's not an active thing to slow down. The club just kind of whips around my lower body as my upper body "catches up" to my lower body. While this is happening my lead arm rests gently against my chest. I suppose I could "go for it", but it's such a complicated sequence I wouldn't change what I'm doing just to get a few more yards? This is very natural and feels really good at impact. I feel like I'm putting my body behind the shot. I suppose I could also improve the coordination, and put "all" of my weight behind the shot, but again, that would take a tremendous amount of trainig effort for a few yards of gain? I think your point is well taken, that we amateurs should just aspire to hit what we can hit naturally. My next step is to reduce my number of putts, and to solidify my drives. At 3 out of 14 bad drives this last round and 48 putts I think I know what to fix. Back on topic, my friend really needs to see a good instructor and will save some trips to the chiropractor. I just need some backup to force him to do so.

[mvmac]

What I found from doing my A3-A6 drills enough times is that there is a feeling of leverage in the swing. A proper swing also makes the inside out swing come naturally and "slows" it down. I can't turn my lower body faster than it naturally wants to turn. So, it's not an active thing to slow down. The club just kind of whips around my lower body as my upper body "catches up" to my lower body. While this is happening my lead arm rests gently against my chest. I suppose I could "go for it", but it's such a complicated sequence I wouldn't change what I'm doing just to get a few more yards? This is very natural and feels really good at impact. I feel like I'm putting my body behind the shot. I suppose I could also improve the coordination, and put "all" of my weight behind the shot, but again, that would take a tremendous amount of trainig effort for a few yards of gain?

I think you're basically describing good sequencing. Yeah you could "go for it" and end up hitting it shorter because things were out of sequence and contact was off the toe, heel, etc.

[Lihu]

I think you're basically describing good sequencing. Yeah you could "go for it" and end up hitting it shorter because things were out of sequence and contact was off the toe, heel, etc.

Yeah, possible loss in distance too. I'll leave the excessive training schedules to the high school, college and pros, while I just pull a longer club put of my bag. ;-)

[Hammer 4]

You do seem to be mistaking smooth and balanced tempo with slower swings. Ernie's club head speed is still quite high.

Don't overlook tempo and balance's role in making fast look slower.

Right. I knew Els had speed, he's so smooth it doesn't look fast, and I should have said that in my previous post.

[Hammer 4]

O.K...first, I apologize for sorta highjacking your thread Lihu.

Tonight I went and hit 150 balls at the range. My focus was to swing within myself, i.e. a good slow tempo, and to swing on the path that Mike told me to, in to out. Was a nice night out,a little breeze at my back, anyway, started hitting 1/2, then 3/4 shots with PW, not concerned about where the ball went nor the distance, only how I swung.

After warming up, I began hitting my PW with mostly 3/4 swings, staying in my tempo, then I did some full swings, the full swing tempo began at 1001, and ended at 1004, with this swing, I made good contact, had a nice ball flight, and the distance was, well, I couldn't believe it, 9i short 130 yds, best, 145 yds, the last club I hit was my 4i, well over 190 yds, (guess) it went pretty well past the 187 yd marker.

Now for the best part, yesterday my back was Killing me all day and most of the night, I thought it was from hitting balls.WRONG, tonight my back is a tad tight, but No Pain. So, my best guess when I hit ball the other night, and I made the worst contact, on account of I was swinging to hard, and trying to hard to get the balls, Out There, well, it didn't work, and I paid the piper with a sore back.

So, Lihu, I tend to think that your friend has a swing issue that causes his back pain, I'm only going by what happened to me, hopefully he will seek instruction, and swing within himself. Again, sorry for the high jack...

[Lihu]

. . .

So, Lihu, I tend to think that your friend has a swing issue that causes his back pain, I'm only going by what happened to me, hopefully he will seek instruction, and swing within himself. Again, sorry for the high jack...

No need to apologize, I think what you are saying is very relevant.

I agree that his swing is probably the cause of his back pain.

Another friend, who is kind of learning from the same source, also has an OTT swing and hits his 3i only about 167 yards. I didn't realize it until we were "competing against" each other by seeing who could hit closest to the flag on the range. I had a poor ball striking day, but I was using my 6i and assumed that he was doing the same. I mentioned that his 6i looked really steep. Then he said it was his 3i. Towards the end of the day he was also complaining a little bit about a little back pain. He is a lot younger than the first friend so it did not affect him as much. However, he did notice that his finish is not as clean as mine, and wanted to rectify it. . .

So. . ., most of my lessons with @mvmac and Dana were semi-evolvr like because much of my lesson was from reviewing the videos prepared for me, so I guess I am in a position to recommend evolvr.

This might be just the thing for one or both of them?

[Hammer 4]

No need to apologize, I think what you are saying is very relevant.

I agree that his swing is probably the cause of his back pain.

Another friend, who is kind of learning from the same source, also has an OTT swing and hits his 3i only about 167 yards. I didn't realize it until we were "competing against" each other by seeing who could hit closest to the flag on the range. I had a poor ball striking day, but I was using my 6i and assumed that he was doing the same. I mentioned that his 6i looked really steep. Then he said it was his 3i. Towards the end of the day he was also complaining a little bit about a little back pain. He is a lot younger than the first friend so it did not affect him as much. However, he did notice that his finish is not as clean as mine, and wanted to rectify it. . .

So. . ., most of my lessons with @mvmac and Dana were semi-evolvr like because much of my lesson was from reviewing the videos prepared for me, so I guess I am in a position to recommend evolvr.

This might be just the thing for one or both of them?

No question...Both of them.

[mvmac]

So. . ., most of my lessons with @mvmac and Dana were semi-evolvr like because much of my lesson was from reviewing the videos prepared for me, so I guess I am in a position to recommend evolvr.

Commonality of good instructors

[drewfus813]

I am trying to fix my OTT swing but a normal swing thought is not working so far. Maybe I can work backwards. What physically happens when one swings over the top? For example the shoulders rotate first, the club gets away from the body and so on. What else is physically going on? if I can concentrate on fixing those things, maybe that can help. Thanks.

[boogielicious]

There are a number of things that can cause this, weight not moving forward, arms swing before hips move forward and rotate, right elbow getting stuck behind your during the downswing.  The cause really has to be examined.  Best advice is to film your swing and post it in the Member Swings section.

[mvmac]

I am trying to fix my OTT swing but a normal swing thought is not working so far. Maybe I can work backwards. What physically happens when one swings over the top? For example the shoulders rotate first, the club gets away from the body and so on. What else is physically going on? if I can concentrate on fixing those things, maybe that can help. Thanks.

Hi @drewfus813 , I moved your post to another thread, lots of good information was shared earlier. Can't say for sure why you come over the top, could be a backswing issue, could be a downswing issue. More than likely it's going to be a Key 1 or 2 fix.

Like @boogielicious said, post a swing here

http://thesandtrap.com/f/4180/member-swings